Confederate flag

[YogiBare]

So, being racist is actually a type of conformity, eh?

Exactly. That's one reason why it is so difficult to reverse.

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Unfortunately...

...To address PC's question, my answer is an emphatic "yes"; to display the Confederate battle flag is an expression of inner racism. No sane or logical case can be made for an argument that the Confederacy was not a racist institution. When one publically displays the symbol of that institution, they are associating themselves with that institution and saying, "I believe that this (the Confederacy) is a good and admirable thing". They are saying that, "the Confederacy's embracing of slavery is not sufficiently abhorent to me to make me disassociate myself from it." It reflects an acceptance and tolerance of racism that is unescapably, in and of itself, racist.

Thanks Yogi. That pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[WriterDom]

So it's time for the quarterly Confederate flag thread?

 

[Problem Child]

So it's time for the quarterly Confederate flag thread?

Read the question. It's not about the flag.

 

[WriterDom]

Read the question. It's not about the flag.

oh, the title is a little misleading then

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: Unfortunately...

What I am talking about is the open display of a confederate flag as an expression of a person's personality or beliefs, because people naturally just don't slap a confederate flag on their cars or clothing without any forethought. They put it there because they are trying to say something.

I wonder about this though. I think a lot of people (idiots, yes, but stil...) DO slap that flag on without any thought.

I'm pretty sure that most of the kids at the high school who have a confederate flag on their truck, or wore one on their tshirt today, don't give any thought to its actual meaning before doing so.

People tend to follow the herd. If Jim Bob is the coolest dude in town, and he has a flag behind the gun rack in his pickup, and Billy Joe wants to be friends with Joe Bob, he's gonna get a flag too.

Not everyone considers the symbolism behind things.

 

[Hamletmaschine]

No, that isn't what I said at all.

What I said was everyone driving by your house would think it was occupied by neo-nazi scum.

I was actually responding to Yogi's comment about the confederate flag's being an expression of inner racism. You slipped your post in there while I wasn't looking.

Actually, I mostly agree with what you said. It is the likelihood that people will interpret your flag-waving as an unproblematic reflection of your racism or fascism that should make one question the efficacy of displaying the rebel flag or the nazi flag.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't stick the nazi flag out my bedroom window today, for precisely the reason you state. But when I was a 15-yr.-old kid just trying to get a rise out of the adults in the neighborhood, it seemed like a pretty cool thing to do. As others have suggested, I think there's a lot of that sort of juvenile attitude in the display of the rebel flag, too.

 

[Problem Child]

oh, the title is a little misleading then

Sorry Dom, didn't mean to confuse you anymore than you already are.

 

[AzureAngel]

I find myself torn. When I see the rebel flag, my mind first flashes to the group of hicks back in the day. Driving over-sized trucks with cowboy hats on, confederate flag flapping in the breeze. Soon after, the thoughts of, "Hey. You're from Wisconsin, not the South. You can't trick me with your Confederate propoganda. We were born in the same shithole, I'm just accepting that fact."

It then leaps to a trip to Florida when I was roughly 15. The same time I was down there, a bus of college students came to the same condo-place we were at. Skipping all the details of that... at 2 am, my cousin and I were sitting on the balcony outside our condo. Two girls were walking along just below us and they suddenly stopped and yelled to the guys a floor below us. They cried out, "Check this out!" I don't know if both bent over then - I only saw one. But that one girl turned around and bent all the way over. She had on a pair of boxer shorts (silk, I believe). On one cheek was the confederate flag, and the other cheek was 90% white with the word "Rebel" in the middle. She had a breathtakingly nice butt and I was lit up like a horny little Christmas tree. Hell, I am now, just thinking of it. *Snickers.*

So, I'm not sure which way I feel about it. "You're stupid" or "Beautiful ass."

As towards racism? It's a flag. *Shrugs.* I don't take too much meaning from it. As Hamlet said, it's a symbol, we attribute the meaning. I'm not going to assume someone's a racist because they're bearing the Confederate flag. At the same time, take certain Nazi symbols and I will. That's because I'm weird.

 

[sunstruck]

I was actually responding to Yogi's comment about the confederate flag's being an expression of inner racism. You slipped your post in there while I wasn't looking.

I hate it when that happens. But it's good to know I wasn't misunderstood.
Thanks.

 

[bored1]

Last Summer while in Myrtle Beach,I observed quite a few young white males driving pickup trucks proudly displaying the Confederate flag. Im pretty sure they were sending a message. Is the message racism or is a feeling of being disconnected? Probably a little of both. I see the flag as a historical symbol and nothing more.

 

[Weevil]

I've said it before, it's a symbol of a nation based on the fundamental inequality of black people to white people. I don't see how you can fly the flag and not be making a statement of your agreement with the beliefs espoused by those who raised it.

 

[patient1]

I suspect those term papers didn't do too well.

Laughing myself into a coughing fit

 

[Jimi]

Symbolic Illogic - Part Two

Last Summer... Im pretty sure they were sending a message. Is the message racism or is a feeling of being disconnected? Probably a little of both. I see the flag as a historical symbol and nothing more.

Interesting take on "Stars and Bars", and maybe accurate... having spent some time in both Carolinas, I suspect it's true.

The United States is VERY flag-conscious in comparison with other societies that I have experienced. That IS a good thing - to be proud of one's heritage and institutions. The CSA is an indelible part of your heritage.

'Spokie & Gord have brought up another "racist" institution - thank GOODNESS in fun! As a son of a Glaswegian mother, I'm prompted to explain this a little...

Most of you Yanks may not know it, but Glasgow's two football (soccer) clubs were based originally upon religious lines - Celtic, for the emigré Irish and Scots Catholics... and Rangers (true blue) whom the Protestants and transplanted Orangemen favoured. Originaaly, Catholics were not welcomed in the mainsrteam club - hence the two teams.

There has always been an extreme, sometimes violent, support among Glasgow's working class for their respective clubs - not as bad as the "Province" across the few short sea-miles to the West - but similar prejudices on both sides existed - with the dramatic change in Glasgow's industrial base - this attitude has softened considerably, I'm told.

In the end, flags provoke emotional responses, both good and bad - the sensibilities of the vast variety of English-speaking societies and cultures reflect an equally vast variety of patriotic expression. I like that variety.

 

[Weevil]

Re: Symbolic Illogic - Part Two

Interesting take on "Stars and Bars", and maybe accurate... having spent some time in both Carolinas, I suspect it's true.

The United States is VERY flag-conscious in comparison with other societies that I have experienced. That IS a good thing - to be proud of one's heritage and institutions. The CSA is an indelible part of your heritage.

Sure but the problem is that sometimes your heritage contains bad things. You shouldn't celebrate those. Even the Germans can recognize that.

Listen the CSA was together for, what, 4 or 5 years? I have no problem with celebrating your heritage but why not focus on, well, okay I don't know what I'd be proud of if I was from the south but I'm sure there are, well, no I don't but whatever. Pick something better. The Germans have decided that their 1932-45 history is not their proudest and as such, don't celebrate it. I never thought I'd say this about anyone but the South has a lot to learn from the Gerrys.

 

[patient1]

Re: Symbolic Illogic - Part Two

Interesting take on "Stars and Bars", and maybe accurate... having spent some time in both Carolinas, I suspect it's true.

The United States is VERY flag-conscious in comparison with other societies that I have experienced. That IS a good thing - to be proud of one's heritage and institutions. The CSA is an indelible part of your heritage.

'Spokie & Gord have brought up another "racist" institution - thank GOODNESS in fun! As a son of a Glaswegian mother, I'm prompted to explain this a little...

Most of you Yanks may not know it, but Glasgow's two football (soccer) clubs were based originally upon religious lines - Celtic, for the emigré Irish and Scots Catholics... and Rangers (true blue) whom the Protestants and transplanted Orangemen favoured. Originaaly, Catholics were not welcomed in the mainsrteam club - hence the two teams.

There has always been an extreme, sometimes violent, support among Glasgow's working class for their respective clubs - not as bad as the "Province" across the few short sea-miles to the West - but similar prejudices on both sides existed - with the dramatic change in Glasgow's industrial base - this attitude has softened considerably, I'm told.

In the end, flags provoke emotional responses, both good and bad - the sensibilities of the vast variety of English-speaking societies and cultures reflect an equally vast variety of patriotic expression. I like that variety.

I wish you'd explained this before I went to Glasgow. It would have made more sense out of the apparent insanity, such as ;

Signs in pubs banning team colors.

Six girls dressed in blue about 15 years old jumping 2 others coming out of a store, dragging them around backwards by the hair across the cobblestones & kicking them in the face. Screaming "Get out of here!"at the two. Doing this to them for something like two minutes.


So apparently all that passion wasn't just about a sport. I'm not saying that makes it sane.

 

[Weevil]

Re: Re: Symbolic Illogic - Part Two

Six girls dressed in blue about 15 years old jumping 2 others coming out of a store, dragging them around backwards by the hair across the cobblestones & kicking them in the face. Screaming "Get out of here!"at the two. Doing this to them for something like two minutes.
.

Fucking Weedgie soap doadgin' cunts.

 

[Purple Haze]

What is your first reaction when tou see a Confederate Flag?

This is the first thing I think of:

http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Mptv/1150/3265_0066.jpg

 

[Hamletmaschine]

What a great TV show that was, too. Brilliant stuff.

Ellie Mae lives a few miles away from me. From what I understand, she hangs out at Wal-Mart a lot in her dark glasses and leopard print spandex outfit talking to . . . someone.

 

[bluemuse]

What a great TV show that was, too. Brilliant stuff.

Ellie Mae lives a few miles away from me. From what I understand, she hangs out at Wal-Mart a lot in her dark glasses and leopard print spandex outfit talking to . . . someone.

Do you wake up every morning and say a prayer of thanks for your good fortune?

bluemuse

 

[Hamletmaschine]

If it were Lindsay Wagner, I might.

 

[JazzManJim]

I'm torn on this.

Obviously the Confederate Battle flag triggers symbols of racism and oppresion for an awful lot of people.

But it also triggers a lot of pride and brotherhood for some others.

I'm not going to go into specifics on either. You're going to have to trust that I've heard very compelling arguments for each side in my life and they both carry significant weight with me.

I don't expect that one side can ever adequately understand the stand point of the other because the issues are so close to them. I don't truly know where there's a compromise on this, except to well and truly offend one side or the other.

 

[Purple Haze]

The first couple of seasons were a riot. I remember Jed discovering the telephone, and Jethro wondering why every time he hears that music, there's always somebody at the door. Innocent ignorance, "Third Rock from the Sun" is a modern day version of the Hillbillies, same premise.

In a free society, you should be able to fly whatever flag you want. If you want to warn everybody that you might be an ignorant fucktard, by all means go for it. With all the racists and hate-mongers we have in this country, it's nice to know that the really stupid ones are flagged.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

. With all the racists and hate-mongers we have in this country, it's nice to know that the really stupid ones are flagged.

so what your are saying is that Al Sharpton, Hillary Clinton, Jesse Helms, Robert Byrd, Howard Cossel (sp?) and yes I know he is dead but still, in addition to the aforementioned people this thread is asking about should be flagged? I can agree with that.

 

[Weevil]

so what your are saying is that Al Sharpton, Hillary Clinton, Jesse Helms, Robert Byrd, Howard Cossel (sp?) and yes I know he is dead but still, in addition to the aforementioned people this thread is asking about should be flagged? I can agree with that.

Again, I know it's hard to think deep over the squeals, but where did PH say anything resembling that? He said the dumb ones are, not anybody should be.

Jeez, even when right wingers try to be off the cuff funny they mess it up. Christ you people are useless.