Confederate flag

[Starfish]

Problem child I have to reply to a few things you posted such as "
we feel that those symbols of racism are fine for museums and textbooks, but we'd rather not have them on display in our daily lives. Perhaps it has nothing to do with your kooky theories about mass propaganda" these ideas are exactly the propaganda that were talking about the flag doesnt mean hatred or racism just becouse some low intelagence people decided to use at for there symbol hate the people not the symbol. also "pfft. What's wrong with an American flag honoring all war dead? That's a lame excuse to wear a symbol of racism." why would someone trying to hold onto their haritage want the flag of their enemy to symbolize there familys sacrifice? as for the history books hell their about useless becouse the system has been told to downplay this part of history they dont teach much about it any more becouse it's too contriversal. most people want to belive the hype that this war is about the south wanting to keep their slave but that is wrong the war was about the right to choose the south just didnt like being told they had to give up their slaves they meerly want the right to choose. just my humble opinion based on research I have done for some term papers in school.

Sarge, I am just playin with you man, but I have to do this:


Racist Stoner translation: Like dude. Like don't you know man, that like if you smoke enough reefer you can totally fucking get it on with a keypad and then when you spew, like you can really have a dissertation on like the whole fucking deal man. This is what I came up with just now: You shouldn't get down on the 'low intelagence people' for this shit man. They got it so bad man, because they don't know who to grow good pot iffin they don't know the first thing about hybrids and culitvars dude! So let them have their fucking flag man! It is like they need to have something to bundle up with against the cold, cause they don't got any heat man. They even got holes in the ceiling DUDE. Okay, so like I was thinking about how controversial it is that people won't talk about it in history class, cause everyone is like way baked and no one wants to brake the trippy vibe man. That's when it hit me man. It hit me that this shit about the flag is all the fault of the north. If they hadn't come in and fucked with the south then we'd still be free. See, and realize dude man, that like it is all about the whole pot thing man. You know, man, that it is against the law or whatever. Well, those peeps that lived down here in the south grew hemp and made all sorts of useful shit to smoke and they like totaly fucking did it up until the fucking assholes from the north made it illegal and now we can't grow pot without fucking getting screwed. So dude, it is like totally unfuckingcool that they fucked everything the fuck up in the first place. Just remember, it isn't about keeping the niggers suppressed, it is about keeping them out in the pot feilds harvesting my stash DUDE!

 

[Problem Child]

Sarge, I am just playin with you man, but I have to do this:


Racist Stoner translation: Like dude. Like don't you know man, that like if you smoke enough reefer you can totally fucking get it on with a keypad and then when you spew, like you can really have a dissertation on like the whole fucking deal man. This is what I came up with just now: You shouldn't get down on the 'low intelagence people' for this shit man. They got it so bad man, because they don't know who to grow good pot iffin they don't know the first thing about hybrids and culitvars dude! So let them have their fucking flag man! It is like they need to have something to bundle up with against the cold, cause they don't got any heat man. They even got holes in the ceiling DUDE. Okay, so like I was thinking about how controversial it is that people won't talk about it in history class, cause everyone is like way baked and no one wants to brake the trippy vibe man. That's when it hit me man. It hit me that this shit about the flag is all the fault of the north. If they hadn't come in and fucked with the south then we'd still be free. See, and realize dude man, that like it is all about the whole pot thing man. You know, man, that it is against the law or whatever. Well, those peeps that lived down here in the south grew hemp and made all sorts of useful shit to smoke and they like totaly fucking did it up until the fucking assholes from the north made it illegal and now we can't grow pot without fucking getting screwed. So dude, it is like totally unfuckingcool that they fucked everything the fuck up in the first place. Just remember, it isn't about keeping the niggers suppressed, it is about keeping them out in the pot feilds harvesting my stash DUDE!

wha?

 

[Starfish]

Hit the pipe, then reread. you'll 'get it'.

 

[koalabear]

And tattooing is wrong why?

Ask a jew with a number on his arm...

 

[OpposingBalance]

Whoa there. Even though I found it difficult to read.

This one sentence really jumped out at me.

Problem child I have to reply to a few things you posted such as "
we feel that those symbols of racism are fine for museums and textbooks, but we'd rather not have them on display in our daily lives. Perhaps it has nothing to do with your kooky theories about mass propaganda" these ideas are exactly the propaganda that were talking about the flag doesnt mean hatred or racism just becouse some low intelagence people decided to use at for there symbol hate the people not the symbol. also "pfft. What's wrong with an American flag honoring all war dead? That's a lame excuse to wear a symbol of racism." why would someone trying to hold onto their haritage want the flag of their enemy to symbolize there familys sacrifice? as for the history books hell their about useless becouse the system has been told to downplay this part of history they dont teach much about it any more becouse it's too contriversal. most people want to belive the hype that this war is about the south wanting to keep their slave but that is wrong the war was about the right to choose the south just didnt like being told they had to give up their slaves they meerly want the right to choose. just my humble opinion based on research I have done for some term papers in school.

Just what exactly are you trying to say here sergeant?

I hope its not that you consider the American flag the "flag of the enemy."

 

[Roy Batty]

You mean there's another flag?

Makes me think of the Charlie Daniels Band, fiddles and fucking under a harvest moon.

 

[Gord]

Any group of people can "highjack' a flag and then it can represent different things to different people.

I dont know enough about the Confederate flag and what it represents - but I am sure it will mean a whole lot of things to a whole lot of different groups.

The Union Jack and the English cross of St George got "highjacked' by extreme groups such as National Front ( racist party who want to send back all immigrants ) When they demonstrated they always had the Union Jack / st Georges flag. Before long it almost become a symbol of racist thugs to the extent that some city councils begann to ban it from their buildings and refused to let taxi drivers show it. Which was absurd as it is the national flag and we cannot let a minority use our flag in that way.

I realise that this not the same issue as Confed flag - surely people who live in the South and who are proud of their states can have a symboll of where they came from.

All nations have a past and a lot is not to be proud of. Britain did its fair share of some pretty horendeous things in the past under the Union Jack - but we still fly it proudly now because of what it represents NOW

 

[Roy Batty]

l proudly now because of what it represents NOW

And that would be?

 

[Gord]

And that would be?

We currently are the world chanpions at carpet bowls - and snooker

There is something to be proud of

I dunno the usual patriotic things

Green fields
Fish and Chips
Pints of Spitfire
Celtic Football Club
British Lions
Kilts
kentish pubs
Scottish golf courses
cockney rhyming slang
PM Question time
the tube map
a place called Pratts Bottom ( would you live there )

etc etc etc

 

[Jimi]

Symbolic Illogic

As a Canadian, and a long-term student of US history - the display of the CSA "Jack" does not offend. So I voted for Southern pride... they DO, after all, have a lot to br proud OF. As an aside -IMHO, much of Southern racism grew out of the Reconstruction era, which was nasty Yankee "payback" that wouldn't have happened had Lincoln lived.

However, to a person of colour; or where a flag is displayed in dubious situations / locations - either can connote racism and hatred. Show a Hackenkreuz to a Jew - same negative message.

A biker w/ BOTH symbols - instant assumption!

Again, a situation where our judgement needs to be measured, not reactive.... the flag is not the issue - the intent of the wearer or bearer IS!

 

[markb325]

You know if they started teaching more on the time era and reasons of the civil war it would make it harder for these racist groups to use the Stars&Bars as a symbol. The only thing that the Civil War actually had to do with slavery was President Lincon<spellig>. Freed the slaves during the war. The war in my opinion was ignorant and should have been avoided. My belief in the matter is that only certain groups should be allowed to display the Stars and Bars. Those are officially reconginized groups like the Daughters of Confederate soilders, at least I think that is their name. Any way being born and raised in the south I have heard many things about the Stars and Bars. I tend to be vocal about hate groups using it as a symbol as like many southerners I have ansestors that fought for the south.

Unfortunately yes it is a symbol of racism, but only because we allow it to be.

 

[bluespoke]

There is something to be proud of

I dunno the usual patriotic things

Celtic Football Club

[cough] [splutter]

You must be joking. You can't mention one without the other!

 

[Gord]

[cough] [splutter]

You must be joking. You can't mention one without the other!

Thought you might stumble on that !! Ok Ok in your case it would be ...... can i utter the name rangers

But as you can see I was trying to express quickly a few things that make me proud or happy to be a Brit -

 

[bluespoke]

Thought you might stumble on that !! Ok Ok in your case it would be ...... can i utter the name rangers

But as you can see I was trying to express quickly a few things that make me proud or happy to be a Brit -

There, there, that didn't hurt too much did it?

 

[miles]

I really want to meet these Black bikers wearing the Confederate flag.


2--If they do exist, I dare them to come to come to Atlanta and ride down MLK Blvd.

They would soon be having a dream. A dirt nap.

 

[Hamletmaschine]

Like any other symbol, the confederate battle flag has no fixed or essential meaning. It can be made to mean any of a number of different things.

If you assume that someone with a confederate battle flag is a racist, that says more about you than it does about them.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Ask a jew with a number on his arm...

I am a Jew. My mothers parents were German jews whos parents both died in Buchenwald so don't try that sanctimonious crap with me.

 

[YogiBare]

Anyone who has grown up in America is, to some degree or another, racist. Even those of us who try to bend over backward to be fair and moral people. Even members of minorities, themselves. This is inevitably true because America is a racist society.

The very notion of "race" is a social, rather than a biological, construct. Our society is extremely race conscious, is riddled with race-based assumptions about people, and has much higher rates of negative life outcomes (health statistics, death rates, poverty rates, rates of imprisonment, rates of family disintegration, etc., etc., etc.) for African Americans than for whites. To grow up here means to absorb the culture to a sufficient degree to be accepted in society. This is how racial discrimination has perpetuated itself in our society.

Racism has become institutionalized and, mostly, just blends into American life like wallpaper. And this is why most of us are blind to our own racism. These assertions are not judgements. They are meant to be only descriptive. I believe that we have made substantial progress in beginning to undo this madness during these past 50 years, but it is only a beginning.

To address PC's question, my answer is an emphatic "yes"; to display the Confederate battle flag is an expression of inner racism. No sane or logical case can be made for an argument that the Confederacy was not a racist institution. When one publically displays the symbol of that institution, they are associating themselves with that institution and saying, "I believe that this (the Confederacy) is a good and admirable thing". They are saying that, "the Confederacy's embracing of slavery is not sufficiently abhorent to me to make me disassociate myself from it." It reflects an acceptance and tolerance of racism that is unescapably, in and of itself, racist.

This communication of racism may, or may not be conscious and/or intentional on the part of the person who displays that flag. There may also be other true and sincere motivations involved, such as honoring ancesters who gave their lives in a war for something that they believed in (be that slavery, freedom, or whatever). The person displaying the flag may even have participated in some behavior to combat racism. But racism is not a dichotomy, you either are or you aren't racist. It is true for virtually all of us that we are to some degree racist, and to some degree opposed to racism. The two attitudes frequently co-exist in the same individual. We are complex beings in whom con tradictory beliefs, motivations, and behaviors are the norm rather than the exception.

 

[sunstruck]

Ok, well, I see a lot of comments about what the confederate flag origianlly represented, the idea being that American society has altered that representation by associating the flag with slavery. So therefore people can wear and wave this flag today without being racist.

Well, they can. But it's not going to stop people from thinking of them as racist. Flags are symbols and symbols are representations of an idea, and unless you plan on printing a "What this flag means to me" disclaimer under it, people are going to think racist red neck.

You don't think so? Remember that the swastika was once a symbol of unity and strength until Hitler got a hold of it. Now, there isn't a person on this planet who doesn't see that symbol and think "Nazi". Now whether that's a good thought or not depends on the individuale, but the thought is there. The image triggers it. You can't change that, and if you choose to go around wearing swastikas and confederate flags, you are choosing to represent yourself as a racist because you KNOW that's what people are thinking when they look at you.

 

[Hamletmaschine]

When I was in high school, my brother and I found a Nazi flag in the attic that my father had brought home as a souvenir after WWII. We thought it was cool and hung it up outside our bedroom window, just for the hell of it.

Now I am supposed to believe, I guess, that we were in reality expressing our inner Nazi.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

My first thought is there goes someone that enables the continued propoganda that all southerner's are blithering idiotic inbreds. An idea that grates me to no end!

My second thought then is they have a right to their opinion and a right voice said opinion.

 

[sunstruck]

When I was in high school, my brother and I found a Nazi flag in the attic that my father had brought home as a souvenir after WWII. We thought it was cool and hung it up outside our bedroom window, just for the hell of it.

Now I am supposed to believe, I guess, that we were in reality expressing our inner Nazi.

No, that isn't what I said at all.

What I said was everyone driving by your house would think it was occupied by neo-nazi scum.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Here in PA, two groups of people have battle flags.

One group are the Civil War Re- Enacters. They are fairly common. I've had them as neighbors, co-workers, customers, etc.
They like to dress up & go camping on the weekends, & play with muzzle loading rifles. A cannon in the yard is a dead give-away. These history hobbyists will readily discus the subject.

The only people I know personally who fly the flag are civil war re-enacters. On my camping trip next week, there will be a rebel flag flying from a pole atop one of the horse trailers. The guy who flies it, will get up every morning singing Dixie. Then, we'll raise the American Flag over another trailer, the National Antem will be played over the loud speaker, and we'll go ride.

When I see a flag 'out of context' in a truck window, or whatever, I usually think redneck. Not necessarily rascist.

 

[bluespoke]

In general the flag has (in common with many threads on this Board) been hijacked.

There is a similar problem with the Union Jack in Britain.

It's most likely displays are at rallies of the extreme right and bigots in football crowds (English and Scottish).

 

[phrodeau]

Originally posted by YogiBare (edited)
Anyone who has grown up in America is, to some degree or another, racist. Even those of us who try to bend over backward to be fair and moral people. Even members of minorities, themselves. This is inevitably true because America is a racist society.

So, being racist is actually a type of conformity, eh?

The Confederate rag doesn't mean squat to me. The Confederacy lost the war and no longer exists. There's nothing that their colors can viably represent today. Anyone flying it now can only convey "I blew some money on this cheap replica of a historic antique".