Condi for President?

[Pure]

She, Condoleeza Rice-- keeps denying rumors. Input from literotica's highly perceptive--if liberal leaning--clientele sought.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I'm not sure how I would feel about her as president, but I like the idea of her running. I respect her for the fact that she's never played race or gender games; she just does her job. Whether one likes her politics or not, I like the scorn with which she treats any attempt by others to say "wow, great job for an African-American woman." She takes her lumps with the rest of them and requires to be treated as anyone else in her position, whether that means praise or attacks. If we're to have a serious run for the White House by a woman, in my opinion she'd set an excellent precedent in terms of handling the gender end of things.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

Sorry, Pure. I can't vote on this poll. For some odd reason, the only options for no are all asinine with none based on her political views. What an odd lil oversight on your part.

 

[NoJo]

It's about time you guys had a female president. So no.

 

[rgraham666]

My reaction.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Pure, you forgot the "No, she's an incompetent sycophant" option, so I didn't vote.

 

[cantdog]

I no longer expect to respect most candidates for office. But she is mostly known for her lack of political views, isn't she? Her record in the cabinet is one of solid yes-man for Bush and Cheney. She follows the line, regardless. Is kissing a lot of ass a qualification?

 

[Weird Harold]

Sorry, Pure. I can't vote on this poll. For some odd reason, the only options for no are all asinine with none based on her political views. What an odd lil oversight on your part.

The options for yes are equally assinine and irrelevant, so I can't vote either.

I can't see any party nominating her in the next twelve to sixteen years becuse she's un-electable for any one of severl reasons; not least of which are her race and gender. The only way she'll be nominated is by a party that knows it can't win anyway and wants to make a statement.

I'd probably vote for her if she does run, but I'm weird. I don't think ther are enough weird and contrary people like me to carry an election, though.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I would hesitate to vote for her because she was at the helm of national security when 9/11 occured. Obviously, a lot goes into casting a vote and other issues, plus her opponent would make a difference.

 

[Awful Arthur]

The southern Fundies are leaning towards Jeb Bush right now and unless something unexpected happens, he will be the candidate.


AA

 

[rgraham666]

The southern Fundies are leaning towards Jeb Bush right now and unless something unexpected happens, he will be the candidate.


AA

I repeat

 

[logophile]

Pure, you forgot the "No, she's an incompetent sycophant" option, so I didn't vote.

Not surprisingly, I am voting with LadyJ on this one!

 

[BlackShanglan]

I no longer expect to respect most candidates for office. But she is mostly known for her lack of political views, isn't she? Her record in the cabinet is one of solid yes-man for Bush and Cheney. She follows the line, regardless. Is kissing a lot of ass a qualification?

Hmmm. Serious question. She's an employee selected by him, so isn't it reasonable for her to present a united front? This may just be me, but personally I have my arguments with superiors in private if I'm part of a hierarchical organization. I tend to believe that I should either resolve those issues without sidetracking the initiative and goals of the entire organization, or if I can't resolve them, I should leave. I recognize that there are other ways to operate, but what if Ms. Rice shares my point of view? You wouldn't know I had strenuous disagreements until the day I left.

Shanglan

 

[Subo97]

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people--P.T. Barnum

 

[cantdog]

Hmmm. Serious question. She's an employee selected by him, so isn't it reasonable for her to present a united front? This may just be me, but personally I have my arguments with superiors in private if I'm part of a hierarchical organization. I tend to believe that I should either resolve those issues without sidetracking the initiative and goals of the entire organization, or if I can't resolve them, I should leave. I recognize that there are other ways to operate, but what if Ms. Rice shares my point of view? You wouldn't know I had strenuous disagreements until the day I left.

Shanglan

Okay, but there has never breathed a President who had expertise in every facet of the executive branch's many ramifications. Hence the cabinet. You may say that a cabinet level appointment is the equivalent of a janitor position, a mere employee, paid to do what they're told and shut up. If the analogy holds, then I agree, the biggest sycophant is the most valuable. I do not agree, though, even in that case, that such a performance demonstrates fitness for the chief executive.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Okay, but there has never breathed a President who had expertise in every facet of the executive branch's many ramifications. Hence the cabinet. You may say that a cabinet level appointment is the equivalent of a janitor position, a mere employee, paid to do what they're told and shut up. If the analogy holds, then I agree, the biggest sycophant is the most valuable. I do not agree, though, even in that case, that such a performance demonstrates fitness for the chief executive.

I think you misunderstand me, Cant. My point was not that I do not argue with superiors; I do. My point is that having had the argument in privacy, I either present a united front on the eventual decision, or if I feel strongly enough that it's bad and that my opinion was dismissed, I leave. This is my point on Rice. I'm not suggesting that her role is to be a flunky; as you point out, the executive office doesn't need flunkies, it needs advisors. What I am suggesting is that it's quite possible for an advisor to argue passionately behind closed doors, have what affect it is possible to have, and not make that a public falling-out.

Shanglan

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I think you misunderstand me, Cant. My point was not that I do not argue with superiors; I do. My point is that having had the argument in privacy, I either present a united front on the eventual decision, or if I feel strongly enough that it's bad and that my opinion was dismissed, I leave. This is my point on Rice. I'm not suggesting that her role is to be a flunky; as you point out, the executive office doesn't need flunkies, it needs advisors. What I am suggesting is that it's quite possible for an advisor to argue passionately behind closed doors, have what affect it is possible to have, and not make that a public falling-out.

Shanglan

But if this were the case, hypothetically, why continue on with the administration? It's no secret that Powell didn't seem to fit in well with others in the administration, so he waited until Bush's first reign was over and left. I would've been more likely to give Rice another chance if she had done the same.

 

[BlackShanglan]

But if this were the case, hypothetically, why continue on with the administration? It's no secret that Powell didn't seem to fit in well with others in the administration, so he waited until Bush's first reign was over and left. I would've been more likely to give Rice another chance if she had done the same.

*nods* And that makes sense if you don't like any of the goals of the administration. Not saying that her politics will please everyone - just that she's not necessarily a sycophant just because she hasn't voiced public critcisms. If she agrees with some but not all of his goals or policies, she may think it's best to work from within and try to exercise a moderating influence.

Shanglan

 

[cantdog]

In the second term, Powell and other dissenters were shitcanned. Powell did not publicly dissent. He displayed the integrity of a nutted squirrel, publicly. Powell's public co-operation with Paul and Rummy extended to presenting a congeries of falsehoods to the United Nations in their support, defending their decisions in numerous press conferences, and so forth.

The Washington press had the word he had advocated against Paul and Rummy, behind those doors of which you speak. The same press paint Condi as a worshipper who never spoke against any of it, doors or no. She moved up. He's gone now. The ones who left, of course, left.

I conclude that this particular executive doesn't want advisors, but sycophants. There are numerous insider accounts of the controversies in the security services during the first term. Condi's record is consistent in them all.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

*nods* And that makes sense if you don't like any of the goals of the administration. Not saying that her politics will please everyone - just that she's not necessarily a sycophant just because she hasn't voiced public critcisms. If she agrees with some but not all of his goals or policies, she may think it's best to work from within and try to exercise a moderating influence.

Shanglan

I think we could take a lesson from Powell and realize that exercising a moderating influence doesn't seem to work with this administration. It's probably been more unilateral in its approach to things than any other in recent memory. But as was said earlier, it might behoove me to wait and see what the options are in 4 years. If Rice doesn't run, it's kinda a moot point.

 

[BlackShanglan]

In the second term, Powell and other dissenters were shitcanned. Powell did not publicly dissent. He displayed the integrity of a nutted squirrel, publicly. Powell's public co-operation with Paul and Rummy extended to presenting a congeries of falsehoods to the United Nations in their support, defending their decisions in numerous press conferences, and so forth.

The Washington press had the word he had advocated against Paul and Rummy, behind those doors of which you speak. The same press paint Condi as a worshipper who never spoke against any of it, doors or no. She moved up. He's gone now. The ones who left, of course, left.

I conclude that this particular executive doesn't want advisors, but sycophants. There are numerous insider accounts of the controversies in the security services during the first term. Condi's record is consistent in them all.

I'm a little baffled here. Why would someone stay in an organization with which s/he had substantial and ongoing philosophical differences? If Powell thought that he'd done all he could and that the administration was going in a direction he didn't want to support, then I think he did the right thing: he did his job to the best of his ability and left when he'd had enough. If memory serves, he didn't get "shitcanned"; he left of his own choice. If I had ongoing conflicts with an employer, I too might leave. I don't see how this makes him weak or a person lacking integrity.

If Rice supports Bush, she supports him. Is she not permitted to agree with him? Is it possible that she thinks he's doing the right thing? He seems to think he is; is it utterly incomprehensible that someone else might agree?

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think we could take a lesson from Powell and realize that exercising a moderating influence doesn't seem to work with this administration.

Fair possibilty, but then ... things can always get worse Although one shudders to think how.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

I'm a little baffled here. Why would someone stay in an organization with which s/he had substantial and ongoing philosophical differences? If Powell thought that he'd done all he could and that the administration was going in a direction he didn't want to support, then I think he did the right thing: he did his job to the best of his ability and left when he'd had enough. If memory serves, he didn't get "shitcanned"; he left of his own choice. If I had ongoing conflicts with an employer, I too might leave. I don't see how this makes him weak or a person lacking integrity.

She could be staying because she realizes it could greatly increase her chances in a 2008 presidential bid. Only she knows for sure.

He seems to think he is; is it utterly incomprehensible that someone else might agree?

It's incomprehensible to me, but I think he's a nincompoop (sp?).

 

[Noor]

Pure, you forgot the "No, she's an incompetent sycophant" option, so I didn't vote.

Ditto, or "no, she is just plan evil"

 

[cantdog]

I don't see her as evil, just a worshipper of power. A functionary.