closed Thread

[icanhelp1]

Doesn't matter who listens to whom. The US in not the head of NATO, and you attributing Biden to be the defacto head, just shows you lack the knowledge to have your posts accepted as fact, or even considered. The later part is my personal opinion.

You’re an idiot! If it wasn’t for American leadership NATO would die on the vine. Shove your contrarian argumentative views up your ass.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You’re an idiot! If it wasn’t for American leadership NATO would die on the vine. Shove your contrarian argumentative views up your ass.

You have zero evidence of that beyond your own opinion. The US is not the head of NATO, be a man and accept it, instead of the child you show yourself to be on here.

 

[RobDownSouth]

But if that wasn’t the case, why did the IDF not believe the food aid vehicles were legit or was there another fuckup in play?

I'm pretty sure they knew they were legit.
I'm also pretty they just didn't give a shit.

A group of Israeli Untermensch in Gaza shot down an entire family in cold blood for target practice last weekend.
When their grandmother tried to crawl out and retrieve her family's bodies, they shot all around her to force her back into her home.

Fucking Untermensch.

 

[Lazaran]

To be clear, I’m not excusing the IDF, but yes it’s very conceivable. We only have to look at Tamir Rice in the US who cops rolled up on and shot without so much as a warning. For some reason dispatch did not pass on the callers comment that Tamir was a child, seemed challenged and that what he had looked like a practice gun because of the orange barrel tip.

But if that wasn’t the case, why did the IDF not believe the food aid vehicles were legit or was there another fuckup in play?

One can only speculate; but it may have been as simple as the Israelis in charge of operating the drones believing that some members of Hamas leadership were exploiting that convoy (and others) to transit Gaza, and we’re willing to face the consequences of a "bad" strike rather than potentially letting Hamas leaders escape.



Also:

In a completely sociopathic cost benefit analysis: from the Israeli perspective, the concrete "benefits" of the strike may have ruled the day over the nebulous costs. - (The concrete "benefits" of the strike could be viewed as a cynical "win win" from the Israeli perspective, because they potentially killed Hamas leadership, and they disrupted aid to Gaza which they believe goes to Hamas.)



Also:

The revelation that UNWRA members participated in the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnappings operation likely (imho) made the Israelis less than “charitable" when it comes to giving aid organizations the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t working with Hamas at some level, and thus, the Israelis in charge may not have given too much considering to the aid workers when authorizing the drone strike. - That drone strike didn’t occur in a vacuum: Everything leading up to it contributed to the decision and the outcome.

 

[SmokingFap]

That's his job. He's not a policymaker. He's a spokesperson for the administration. He could, of course, resign if he couldn't speak for the administration's policy, but I don't think he's setting/influencing policy enough for this condemnation.

He could at least not be so defensive and condescending about it. He can, at least, acknowledge the concerns of the American people and the rest of the world.

 

[RobDownSouth]

<snip>

The revelation that UNWRA members participated in the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnappings operation likely (imho) made the Israelis less than “charitable" when it comes to giving aid organizations the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t working with Hamas at some level, and thus, the Israelis in charge may not have given too much considering to the aid workers when authorizing the drone strike. - That drone strike didn’t occur in a vacuum: Everything leading up to it contributed to the decision and the outcome.

I wish you'd give this particular bit of propaganda a rest.
It's breathless, unproven drivel from the bowels of Israeli Propaganda Ministry.
It's right up there with "40 beheaded babies".
It has never been independently vetted.

US intelligence casts doubt on Israeli claims of UNRWA-Hamas links, report says​

 

[jomar]

I'm pretty sure they knew they were legit.
I'm also pretty they just didn't give a shit.

A group of Israeli Untermensch in Gaza shot down an entire family in cold blood for target practice last weekend.
When their grandmother tried to crawl out and retrieve her family's bodies, they shot all around her to force her back into her home.

Fucking Untermensch.

One can only speculate; but it may have been as simple as the Israelis in charge of operating the drones believing that some members of Hamas leadership were exploiting that convoy (and others) to transit Gaza, and we’re willing to face the consequences of a "bad" strike rather than potentially letting Hamas leaders escape.



Also:

In a completely sociopathic cost benefit analysis: from the Israeli perspective, the concrete "benefits" of the strike may have ruled the day over the nebulous costs. - (The concrete "benefits" of the strike could be viewed as a cynical "win win" from the Israeli perspective, because they potentially killed Hamas leadership, and they disrupted aid to Gaza which they believe goes to Hamas.)



Also:

The revelation that UNWRA members participated in the Hamas animal’s October 7th rape, torture, murder, and kidnappings operation likely (imho) made the Israelis less than “charitable" when it comes to giving aid organizations the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t working with Hamas at some level, and thus, the Israelis in charge may not have given too much considering to the aid workers when authorizing the drone strike. - That drone strike didn’t occur in a vacuum: Everything leading up to it contributed to the decision and the outcome.

I very much hope the truth comes out and justice is served

 

[ll74]

Which showed you (doggedly) haven't been following the news.

The "official" Israeli report on what happened is already out. It came out yesterday morning. The report was covered in detail today on two media sources I watch, CNN and MSNBC. No one, to my knowledge, is accusing these outlets of false reporting of this.

The Israelis do, in fact, admit in that report that the Central Kitchen convoy was specifically targeted. The precision bombing nature of it makes obvious that "somebody" specifically targeted what was there on the ground. As I told you already, since you haven't bothered to keep up with the news, the report acknowledges the convey was targeted and the three vehicles that were separated from each other by a kilometer each as coordinated with the IDF were precision blasted by Israeli missiles and wiped out. It's hard for you to claim they didn't target the convoy when their official report admits they did and that it's self-evident that they did. What they hedged on was whether armed figures accompanied the convoy. Even if they thought they did, protocol (the report admits) was to check "what to do" up the line. Those doing the striking didn't do that.

They also didn't claim in the report that Israel didn't know it was an aid convoy. It was and it had been cleared to do what it was doing, where it was doing it, and how it was doing it with the appropriate IDF authorities. Not only has Israel already released its official report, but it's also already relieved two IDF officials of their duties and reprimanded the overall chief of the IDF action in Gaza. As far as Israel is concerned, investigation complete, guilt admitted, punishment inflicted.

You can wait for a week if you like for more information, but the official IDF report is out and it admits it should have known it was an aid convoy and that it, not anyone else, took out the convoy that required three separate precision strikes to do. Not hardly an accident. At best a sloppy cockup highlighting the level of Israeli regard for life in Gaza. They are among the very best at such operations in the world. They've had six months in Gaza to get the science of it down. They haven't bothered to. They've been doing a whole hell of a lot of it though, with high on-the-ground casualties.

I'm done with the whole discussion. I started this thread for helping provide and receive information and instead it's just a blame thread of two factions. Have fun.

I’ve read and viewed, I believe, every article and video available. The fact that the attack happened is unmistakable. Did innocent people die, yes!

This is the dumbest take ever.

The IDF INVESTIGATION board admitted that the 3 vehicles were targeted. Of course they were deliberately targeted, they were perceived to be HAMAS operatives and a threat.

And people fucked up.

The problem lies in the collection of actionable intelligence. Somehow ISR data was compromised and decisions to strike was based on incomplete and compromised data. The US protocol is if the target is out of visual surveillance for basically one second the shot is called off and a new order is initiated starting all target acquisition surveillance from scratch. A missile strike is different from doorkicking. A missile strike requires 100% positive ID. Someone took a gamble, too aggressive and turned the targets hot. They could have considered the target an imminent threat, I don’t think anyone in the media can report otherwise. I believe they want to come clean without jeopardizing sources and methods and compromising troops on the ground.

Yes,. speculation within a week is difficult to be accurate.

What is happening now is conspiracy theorists are trying to mold a tragic event into deliberate murder without evidence of intent to murder. Sad. The IDF fired two officers and suspended all ISR strikes till the correct data collection protocol from the start of tracking to the actual strike itself and everything in between is modified. IMHO

What is happening now is trobalists are deciding what information helps their side.

 

[KeithD]

Pointing out blame, especially as given/accepted by the direct players, is providing information. You just haven't seen information you wanted to see. I'm pretty sure that this issue isn't all about you and your sensitivities.

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

I'm done with the whole discussion.

I have a great idea.

 

[Lazaran]

I very much hope the truth comes out and justice is served

I believe the current operative truth, is that Israel wants the civilians in Rafah to leave. Full stop.

That ^ is negated / foiled by Humanitarian convoys supplying aid to Rafah.

A suspicious mind would do the math and arrive at a cynically obvious result: The Israelis took advantage of the opportunity / situation with the WCK convoy moving at night, etc, and achieved the goal of interrupting aid to Rafah. "Coincidentally”, the Israelis were then "pressured” by the U.S. to open aid crossings in the north of Gaza, which "coincidentally” would likely serve as magnets for civilians in Rafah to be attracted to, thus serving the Israeli goal of getting civilians to leave Rafah.

Quite a "coincidence".



Still, as tragic as the drone strike on the WCK convoy was, an Israeli invasion of Rafah sans a mass civilian exodus would be orders of magnitude worse.



Ultimately, the choices are:

1) Continued / expanded aid to Rafah, no civilian exodus, AND, no Israeli invasion, with the Hamas animals remaining a viable military and political entity, OR, an Israeli invasion regardless of mass civilians present and an unnecessarily difficult and bloody operation (with high civilian casualties) that may or may not result in the elimination of the Hamas animals as a viable military and political entity.

2) Expanded aid crossings, air drops, and ship deliveries in the north of Gaza, a civilian exodus out of Rafah to those aid locations, and an unfettered Israeli invasion of Rafah that eliminates the Hamas animals as a viable military and political entity.



Despite the added hardship of another move by some civilians, I would still advocate for option 2 all day - every day.

 

[Lazaran]

I wish you'd give this particular bit of propaganda a rest.
It's breathless, unproven drivel from the bowels of Israeli Propaganda Ministry.
It's right up there with "40 beheaded babies".
It has never been independently vetted.

US intelligence casts doubt on Israeli claims of UNRWA-Hamas links, report says​

From your own article:

A US intelligence assessment of Israel’s claims that UN aid agency staff members participated in the Hamas attack on 7 October said SOME OF THE ACCUSATIONS WERE CREDIBLE, though could not be independently verified, while also casting doubt on claims of wider links to militant groups.



Also:

The Israeli reports of UNWRA members being in league with Hamas are every bit as credible (and, imho, far more so) as any report coming out of Gaza from "independent" journalists and international organizations.



In fact, it would be an unbelievable miracle if UNWRA actually was NOT infiltrated / compromised by Hamas in its operations in Gaza.



So, no, I don’t think I’ll stop noting a CREDIBLE report that likely (imho) underestimates the Hamas animal’s affiliation with / exploitation of UNRWA.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

From your own article:

A US intelligence assessment of Israel’s claims that UN aid agency staff members participated in the Hamas attack on 7 October said SOME OF THE ACCUSATIONS WERE CREDIBLE, though could not be independently verified, while also casting doubt on claims of wider links to militant groups.



Also:

The Israeli reports of UNWRA members being in league with Hamas are every bit as credible (and, imho, far more so) as any report coming out of Gaza from "independent" journalists and international organizations.



In fact, it would be an unbelievable miracle if UNWRA actually was NOT infiltrated / compromised by Hamas in its operations in Gaza.



So, no, I don’t think I’ll stop noting a CREDIBLE report that likely (imho) underestimates the Hamas animal’s affiliation with / exploitation of UNRWA.

It cast doubt, however, on accusations that the UN agency was collaborating with Hamas in a wider way. The Journal said the report mentioned that although the UNRWA does coordinate with Hamas in order to deliver aid and operate in the region, there was a lack of evidence to suggest it partnered with the group.

It added that Israel has not “shared the raw intelligence behind its assessments with the US”.

In addition, the report notes Israel’s dislike towards the UNRWA, two sources familiar with it told the Journal. “There is a specific section that mentions how Israeli bias serves to mischaracterize much of their assessments on UNRWA and says this has resulted in distortions,” one source reportedly said.

 

[icanhelp1]

 

[icanhelp1]

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has...fare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286


https://www.newsweek.com/memo-exper...-anything-it-has-no-precedent-opinion-1868891

 

[Chobham]

Well Ican, that just doesn't fit the "genocide" narrative they're trying to push.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

“Genocide narrative”

Israel has cut off water, aid, destroyed medical facilities, destroyed farmland, crops, housing, schools, and the list goes on and on and on…

Genocide is literally defined as killing part, or in whole, and destroying aspects of life that sustain part or the whole of a society, deliberately, which is what Israel has done.

It’s a fucking genocide, you fucking ghouls.

Fuck off with your claims of a false narrative.

 

[snailspace]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776917846708060292

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

https://twitter.com/ADHDRevingehed

 

[icanhelp1]

I'm done with the whole discussion. I started this thread for helping provide and receive information and instead it's just a blame thread of two factions. Have fun.

This is the dumbest take ever

I think you misunderstood my statement, *I believe

.


And people fucked up.


Yes,. speculation within a week is difficult to be accurate.


What is happening now is trobalists are deciding what information helps their side.

I'm done with the whole discussion. I started this thread for helping provide and receive information and instead it's just a blame thread of two factions. Have fun.

This is the dumbest take ever.

I think you misunderstood my statement, *I believe* I read every article, not I believe every article. I’m pretty skeptical of anything Main Street media puts out. Most, IMHO, are tainted with antisemitic bias.

And people fucked up.


Yes,. speculation within a week is difficult to be accurate.


What is happening now is trobalists are deciding what information helps their side.

 

[snailspace]

Where was Rob that day

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776933971164598362

 

[snailspace]

Civilians

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776690483852410911

 

[goldytheGoldfish]

 

[snailspace]

Civilians

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776692485865013705

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...tp&cvid=aa9679faf3664dd0840799e30875b249&ei=8

The Israeli military said Sunday that it had withdrawn most ground troops from the Gaza Strip after completing a withering offensive in the southern city of Khan Younis, leaving just one brigade in the battered enclave six months after the war began.

The military has been reducing numbers in Gaza since the start of the year under growing global pressure to ease the impact of the war on civilians. The drawdown also has provided relief for reservists, many of whom have been away from their homes and jobs since Israel's offensive was launched within hours of the Oct. 7, Hamas-led assault on Israel.