Cloning, yes or no?

[Morwen]

...

 

[ma_guy]

From what I've seen the last legislation proposed here in the US would ban HUMAN cloning but allow CELLULAR cloning. IOW, you could produce specific cell types which would be useful in generating an organ, but not a complete human being.

Cloning is a reality and people are going to push the limits. Until the science is perfected there should, IMO, be limits.

People tend to ignore that it took 280+ rejected tries to get "Dolly" the sheep cloned. Science has progressed some since then but what happens when the 1st 10 or 15 tries with each human clone aren't as perfect as people imagine? What are the moral and ethical considerations for when parents have a cloned child and it's born with 6 legs and then they decide they don't want or can't care for that child? The Dolly-rejects were destroyed. Do we do the same with cloned children?

Scary stuff..

 

[Dantetier]

I support cloning. when we research it more we will be able to produce perfect clones of organs from the people who need them, and there will be no rejection..

as for the people Raelions... it annoys me. Society is NOT ready for cloned humans. How is everyone going to treat it? How will it age? There are so many unanswered questions that to create a life through cloning already was just stupid and irresponsible.

Also... the fact that a fucking clut that believes Aliens created the earth (or whatever) made the first clone is going to be a jumping off point for everyone against cloning.. I garauntee it..

 

[bknight2602]

Cloning research should go much further than it has progressed to this point.

Human cloning? I don't know why anyone would want that, unless it is an attempt to prolong life, but the memories and experiences would end, so I don't see the point.

If it is an attempt to give childless people another opportunity to have "children" then that might be ok?

 

[perks]

I think it needs to be legislated, because cloning will lead to who is the "real" person, and can clones be treated differently.

That's the problem, right there.

That's why there are issues.

I mean can I make a clone human being and then just take the parts as I need it? It's still a person, right?

I'm not against cloning, but It definitely needs legislation.

 

[bknight2602]

I think it needs to be legislated, because cloning will lead to who is the "real" person, and can clones be treated differently.

That's the problem, right there.

That's why there are issues.

I mean can I make a clone human being and then just take the parts as I need it? It's still a person, right?

I'm not against cloning, but It definitely needs legislation.

When has legislation fixed any situation like this? All that would accomplish is more work for lawyers. IMHO

 

[kiwiwolf]

I mean can I make a clone human being and then just take the parts as I need it? It's still a person, right?

I'm not against cloning, but It definitely needs legislation.

If we could clone your butt, I say let's get to it... and quick!

 

[Dantetier]

I think it needs to be legislated, because cloning will lead to who is the "real" person, and can clones be treated differently.

That's the problem, right there.

That's why there are issues.

I mean can I make a clone human being and then just take the parts as I need it? It's still a person, right?

I'm not against cloning, but It definitely needs legislation.

People need to understand Cloning is not like it is in the movies... we wont have two of the same person. It's not Multiplicity. the child born is simply an exact human copy of you... your genetic twin... no diference whatsoever except for telomere degredation.

and they are people as much as you or I... Test tube babies are considered human, no?

 

[perks]

When has legislation fixed any situation like this? All that would accomplish is more work for lawyers. IMHO

okay, great, let's not legislate it at all and then I can go build myself a clone slave, and kick it in the head whenever I want to, so I can teach it a lesson that I'm the human, and it isn't.



or let's just make it altogether illegal and then instead of heroin and cocaine there will be clone lords. You're brilliant.

 

[perks]

People need to understand Cloning is not like it is in the movies... we wont have two of the same person. It's not Multiplicity. the child born is simply an exact human copy of you... your genetic twin... no diference whatsoever except for telomere degredation.

and they are people as much as you or I... Test tube babies are considered human, no?

I understand the concept, but how is it that people are thinking of using clones for parts then? There has to be some sort of thinking involved there, for them to think it is okay to do that?

 

[perks]

If we could clone your butt, I say let's get to it... and quick!

that's highly illegal.

although, I would clone you, so I could have two of you as my sex slaves.

 

[kiwiwolf]

that's highly illegal.

although, I would clone you, so I could have two of you as my sex slaves.

Like I say... let's get on it... NOW!

 

[Dantetier]

I understand the concept, but how is it that people are thinking of using clones for parts then? There has to be some sort of thinking involved there, for them to think it is okay to do that?

in the other cloning thread, I think I made the point a hundred million times to fri-whatever... if we could learn to clone an entire body, minus brain... then I don't see how ANYONE could bitch about it...

 

[perks]

in the other cloning thread, I think I made the point a hundred million times to fri-whatever... if we could learn to clone an entire body, minus brain... then I don't see how ANYONE could bitch about it...

I missed the other cloning thread, thankfully.


Don't you think even that requires legislation, though?

What about an underdeveloped brain?

 

[bknight2602]

okay, great, let's not legislate it at all and then I can go build myself a clone slave, and kick it in the head whenever I want to, so I can teach it a lesson that I'm the human, and it isn't.



or let's just make it altogether illegal and then instead of heroin and cocaine there will be clone lords. You're brilliant.

Just as brilliant as your comments.

I said nothing about making it illegal, you put that in.

My only thought was that legislation more often mucks up the processes of science.

 

[Dantetier]

absolutely it requires regulation.

Those bastards who already made clones did it just because they can, which is a STUPID reason. the world is not prepared for clones.


Underdeveloped brain is a bit trickier... some people are against killing chickens for food, I can just imagine what people would do if he made human shaped creatures that had the brainpower of a chicken and started harvesting it for parts.

 

[kiwiwolf]

in the other cloning thread, I think I made the point a hundred million times to fri-whatever... if we could learn to clone an entire body, minus brain... then I don't see how ANYONE could bitch about it...

What would be the point though? A body minus the brain would be totally non functioning. The brain controls all bodily functions, so any body without the brain would be a waste of time.

No brain = no nerves. No nerves makes for useless body parts even for transplant purposes. God it's hard to think at 6.10 am

 

[Dantetier]

My only thought was that legislation more often mucks up the processes of science.

I completely agree... my favorite example is Bush caving to the Religious fuckheads who want people to suffer with all kinds of neurological diseases that can easily be cured within ten years with fetal Stem Cell Research

 

[Dantetier]

What would be the point though? A body minus the brain would be totally non functioning. The brain controls all bodily functions, so any body without the brain would be a waste of time.

No brain = no nerves. No nerves makes for useless body parts even for transplant purposes. God it's hard to think at 6.10 am

Not necessarily. I'm sure we have or can have within ten years a computer good enough to control body functions without a brain... and nerves can be made independent of the brain...

 

[perks]

Just as brilliant as your comments.

I said nothing about making it illegal, you put that in.

My only thought was that legislation more often mucks up the processes of science.

my sarcasm is grossly horrid, I agree.

You think legislation only mucks up science?

I think you have an idealized view of the people in society today.

Nuclear science should have taught you something.

Of course, science should be regulated. Willy Nilly science is not responsible.

But thanks for your input, Frankenstein.

I can't believe you made me say willy nilly.

 

[bknight2602]

I completely agree... my favorite example is Bush caving to the Religious fuckheads who want people to suffer with all kinds of neurological diseases that can easily be cured within ten years with fetal Stem Cell Research

I had not thought of this particular reason for cloning, but why not just clone the parts needed instead of the complete being. This makes a whole lot better economic sense to me.

 

[Dantetier]

I had not thought of this particular reason for cloning, but why not just clone the parts needed instead of the complete being. This makes a whole lot better economic sense to me.

true enough, but I was just making a point... cloning a body part is a far different matter then cloning an entire person... which I think, is the basis of this thread

 

[JazzManJim]

Don't you think even that requires legislation, though?

I think the entire subject requires legislation, at least at first.

I would support, right now, an outright ban on cloning of any sort until we can get many of the ethical arguments hashed out. Right now there are too damned many moral and ethical backwaters we can't eve begin to address while cloning is actively happening.

We need to understand first what it is that we can do. Then we need to understand every single pro and con for each thing, as far as we can find them. Then we need to decide what restrictions, if any, we want to place on each thing we can do.

The whole issue calls for a thorough and methodical debate which involves not only the public and moral/ethical authorities but also actual experts in the field: geneticists, physicians, and the like.

Heck, we haven't even managed to sort out the abortion issue. Cloning's only going to bring exactly those same questions and put that entire issue right back on the table in our faces. I think it best that we just put a blanket moratorium on it and enforce it until we can get ourselves together on it.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Not necessarily. I'm sure we have or can have within ten years a computer good enough to control body functions without a brain... and nerves can be made independent of the brain...

Then surely in 10 years the technology will be available to synthesize human body parts, hence removing the need for cloning.

I still want a Perky clone.

And now... not in 10 years.

 

[*Eve*]

I think organ cloning could be helpful as well as stem cell research that could conceiveable help people who had no hope of walking again. As for human clonng, there is something creepy about it and there are certainly some people I wouldn't want there to be two of.