Cloning, yes or no?

[JazzManJim]

I completely agree... my favorite example is Bush caving to the Religious fuckheads who want people to suffer with all kinds of neurological diseases that can easily be cured within ten years with fetal Stem Cell Research

This is not at all a smart statement to make.

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

I can't wait to clone myself. I want to make an army of me. I will instill in them the virtues that will allow us to take over the world.

Oh hell, I'd probably just end up in a gay orgy with myself, justifyining it as masturbation. Never mind.

 

[perks]

I can't wait to clone myself. I want to make an army of me. I will instill in them the virtues that will allow us to take over the world.

Oh hell, I'd probably just end up in a gay orgy with myself, justifyining it as masturbation. Never mind.

a gay army circle jerk?

I'd pay to see that, ya prostitute.

 

[bknight2602]

my sarcasm is grossly horrid, I agree.

You think legislation only mucks up science?

I think you have an idealized view of the people in society today.

Nuclear science should have taught you something.

Of course, science should be regulated. Willy Nilly science is not responsible.

But thanks for your input, Frankenstein.

I can't believe you made me say willy nilly.

No I don't have an idealized view of people in society, perhaps a pragmatic view point.

And pray tell what regulation stopped TMI? Just simple human error in judgement and you can't regulate that. I'm not even sure that it can be stopped completely.

And no I'm not Frankenstein try keeping to the point instead of throwing barbs when presenting you points, it makes you more believable.

 

[Dantetier]

Then surely in 10 years the technology will be available to synthesize human body parts, hence removing the need for cloning.

I still want a Perky clone.

And now... not in 10 years.

We can synthesize body parts NOW... it's just incredibly expensive and tricky... experimenting with cloning could help with that

and you can have a perky only if I get one too

 

[Dantetier]

This is not at all a smart statement to make.

I don't care. Let people bitch at me. there is not physical or tangible proof that god exists other then the belief of billions of gullible people. That's all. And all this about stem cell research was put on hold because Bush caved the the idiots who think that something that doesn't even have the brain capacity of a fucking walnut is a human being and deserves to be treated as such... meanwhile I have to watch my grandmother slowly go insane from Alzheimers and Dementia, and I have to watch a good friend of the family sufferwith agonizing pain every day because of MS...

So let the religious freaks bitch at me. Their god is a security blanket... that's all. I could give two fucks less if someone believed in a god, but when it effects me and people I love, then I get pretty fucking hostile.

</Rant>

 

[kiwiwolf]

a gay army circle jerk?

I'd pay to see that, ya prostitute.

God I love it when you talk dirty! Call me a slut... go on... I love it!

 

[JazzManJim]

So let the religious freaks bitch at me. Their god is a security blanket... that's all. I could give two fucks less if someone believed in a god, but when it effects me and people I love, then I get pretty fucking hostile.

I understand your hostility and I"m not goig to stomp all over you for being so.

But, for the record, I'm one of those people you despise and marginalize.

 

[perks]

God I love it when you talk dirty! Call me a slut... go on... I love it!

you're a horn dawg... wolf... whateeeeeeevah.

 

[Dantetier]

I understand your hostility and I"m not goig to stomp all over you for being so.

But, for the record, I'm one of those people you despise and marginalize.

no no no... you misunderstand. I have NO problem with religion, NOR people who practice it... what pisses me off is when people try to force their beliefs on me and mine. FSCR can be a GREAT benefit to mankind, but those in power don't want to offend god...

It just annoys me.

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

I can't wait until they can clone steaks. Then I can feed my gay army of circle jerkers right out of the cloning room. Oooh and rump roasts too. I heard gay clone armies love rump roasts.

 

[kiwiwolf]

you're a horn dawg... wolf... whateeeeeeevah.

God you're good! Now about that vibrating duck?

 

[kiwiwolf]

I can't wait until they can clone steaks. Then I can feed my gay army of circle jerkers right out of the cloning room. Oooh and rump roasts too. I heard gay clone armies love rump roasts.

With gravy.

 

[JazzManJim]

no no no... you misunderstand. I have NO problem with religion, NOR people who practice it... what pisses me off is when people try to force their beliefs on me and mine. FSCR can be a GREAT benefit to mankind, but those in power don't want to offend god...

It just annoys me.

The only thing I want to point out is that people can oppose FSCR without having a religious reason for doing so.

I happen to be one of them.

 

[Dantetier]

I can't wait until they can clone steaks. Then I can feed my gay army of circle jerkers right out of the cloning room. Oooh and rump roasts too. I heard gay clone armies love rump roasts.

Ohhh... another use of cloning.... cloning animals for food and whatnot... no waiting for the female cow to give birth once a however long the gestation period is...

of course, we'd have to invent external gestation...

 

[Dantetier]

The only thing I want to point out is that people can oppose FSCR without having a religious reason for doing so.

I happen to be one of them.

alright... what's your reason, if not religious?

 

[capricious_chic]

The Scene: A fashionable obstetrician's office in an unspecified city, America.
Time: The near future, morning.
Cast: Dr. Willdoanything, Mr. and Mrs. Gottahaveit.


Mrs. G: Doctor, we are very pleased with our first child. We have, however, decided to further our understanding of parenthood and add to the world. In thinking about an addition to the family, we want to try one of those designer children we keep hearing about on TV.

-Mr. G looks bored and lets his eyes roam around the office. The doctor leans forward, smiles obsequitiously, and starts to take notes-

Mrs. G: I mean, why be content with our genes when we can make the baby to order? This way , we can be sure the baby not only has the best of us but also will succeed in the world and have EVERY opportunity for advancement. I mean, let's face it, hard work is such a drag. Why work in the future when we can program our DNA for perfection? Besides, my neighbors the Shallowyuppie's have two point six programmed children already. It is the wave of the future. I want my child to be perfect. Here are the preliminary notes I have worked out.

-Mrs G. removes a list from her purse and smoothing it out, begins to explain to the Doctor. Mr. G. starts flirting with the attractive blonde nurse. The doctor stratches his head, thinks of the new Porsche he wants to finance, and thrusting away his objections, scribbles notes even more furiously, nodding his head-

Mrs. G: I want my child to be smart enough to go to Harvard. No public Universities for my child, thank you. It is proven through research that an Ivy-league school will get you a better job in the marketplace. Now, I want my child to be a girl. I want her to be beautiful, with black hair, bright blue eyes, an ivory complexion, a small waist, long legs, 34C, with a beauty mark on the left cheek. I have a problem with people with thin lips, so unattractive, so please make sure she has full, bitable lips. I would prefer she has an oval shaped face, but this is really a minor point. No freckles, but a dimple or two would be nice. We have a genetic problem with near-sightedness, so please find that gene and splice the sucker, or whatever it is you do, and make her with perfect vision. My husband's family... ahem...

-notices Mr. G.'s flagrant flirting with the blonde bombshell, kicks him obviously, and rolls her eyes. Mr. G. snorts, and goes back to fantasizing about the nurse without her bra. The doctor looks worried, bites his lip, shakes it off, and continues jotting down the information-

Mrs G.: Excuse me. My husband's family has a tendency towards alcoholism and depressive ailments. Please add more chemicals or take away some, or whatever. But be on the guard for this. I want her to be a scientist, preferably a geneticist. Women scientists, a rarity, make more money than women in other professions. Make her have good writing skills, better communciation skills, and program her to be media savvy so that she can chair important committees and have lots of media exposure. Perhaps a political bent would be helpful as well, so if she wants to, she can become the first Woman President. Make her docile and content with her lot in life, easy to get along with and gentle, so that we don't have any problems with her when she is a child.

-Mr. G. clears his throat. Mrs. G. glares at him.-

Doctor W: Yes sir? Is there anything you want to add to the make-up of your flesh and blood?

Mr. G: Well, you know, I have incipient liver failure, due to my abuse of alcohol. It would be nice if the kid could have blood type B+, so that I could get transfusions or something when my disease gets worse. Could you grow her an extra liver? You know, just in case...

Doctor W. (interrupting): This, sir, is too much. You can't grow a child just to use it for spare parts!! You can't make the perfect child. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are planning this child so thouroughly that it has nothing of you and your wife in it.

Mrs. G: Oh, please, Doctor. You came up with this technology. You cannot complain about the uses to which it is put. Once the idea is out in the public arena, it belongs to whomever wants to use it. You can no longer control it. This is how I want to use it. Besides, every child that will be my daughter's peer has these modifications. In order for her to keep up in the world, she will need to be 'souped up'. Changed. Modified. Constructed. Spare me your objections. Here is a million dollars and my fertilized egg. Get to work.

-lights down and curtain-

 

[Dantetier]

Alright... this is pathetic... how can genetically engineering a child to be the best POSSIBLY be bad?

Say.... you tested an embryo... but you found out that it had Downs Syndrome, but it can be repaired in this early stage with genetic manipulation... you're going to tell me that's a BAD thing?

 

[JazzManJim]

alright... what's your reason, if not religious?

Science can not speak definitively on when "humanity" begins. A fetus undeniably, if left to natural occurrences, is born a human being with all the rights thereof. But the point at which the fetus, or what comes before or after, "becomes" a human being is something that science has to this point tried unsuccessfully to define. I'm not saying that it wn't happen, only that it has not thus far.

The only definitions on when a human is a human have been subjective, which is fair because that's all they can be right now. My own belief is that at the point of conception is when humanity begins. Part of my basis of belief is that a human egg cell fertilized with a human sperm cell won't be born anything but a human.

I err on the side of caution. I feel that it will speak much better of us as a society in the future to say that we erred to preserve every innocent life we could.

Now there are ways being developed to produce human stem cells capable of being used the same way without destroying a fetus (and I'll use the most neutral phrase I can there). I'd like to see those developed more fully.

Like I said before, there are an awful lot of pitfalls inherent in the cloning issue we've not even begun to discuss. Defining humanity (much as we did back in the 1860's) is only one of them.

 

[Dantetier]

ALSO>>> genetic manipulation can't make someone have a clear ivory complection, or BE intelligent, orhave a good figure. That's ALL environment...

So... where did you get your information... Dr. Suesses Big Book of Propaganda?

 

[Dantetier]

My belief is that human life begins when conciousness forms.. which TECHNICALLY doesn't happen until age two or so... but since THAT can't happen... I think the acceptable limit would be at the end of the first trimester... the fetus is little more then a slug at that point anyway.

Besides... people who want abortions will have abortions. Rowe vs. Wade established that, and all I'm saying is why can't we use THOSE stem cells? I'm not asking for farming of fetuses or anything

 

[JazzManJim]

Alright... this is pathetic... how can genetically engineering a child to be the best POSSIBLY be bad?

Say.... you tested an embryo... but you found out that it had Downs Syndrome, but it can be repaired in this early stage with genetic manipulation... you're going to tell me that's a BAD thing?

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here....

1) Genetic engineering causes two wholly separate classes of people to exist: people who are genetically perfect (or as perfect as wec an get them) and people who are not. Those in the first group have an inherent advantage socially, financially, politically, and in virtually every other way and the wherewithal to lord it over those who do not.

2) Who defines what may and may not be repaired? May we engineer humans to be smarter or stronger on the basis that physical weakness under a certain threshold is unacceptable or intelligence under a certain IQ?

3) Who regulates the engineering? Let's say that the fictional "Perfect Baby Corp" can improve your child. But PBC is a wholly owned subsidiary of "Giant Coglomerate Enterprises" which also owns "Yummy Food Restaurants". What's to stop PBC from jiggling the genes while they're in there toward a predisposition to the types of foods YFR makes? BY the time you find anything amiss, if you ever do, it'll be too late to change. We already know now that certain addictive predispositions exist genetically. We will almost certainly find more and be able to alter them at will.

 

[kiwiwolf]

ALSO>>> genetic manipulation can't make someone have a clear ivory complection, or BE intelligent, orhave a good figure. That's ALL environment...

So... where did you get your information... Dr. Suesses Big Book of Propaganda?

Crap! Figure and complection at least are somewhat down to genetics. And can you say for a certainty that inteligence isn't also affected by genetics.

You lost my sympathy when you hit out with the Dr. Seuss remark. Keep the personal shit out of it and your posting will be received better.

 

[capricious_chic]

Dantetier

I can respect your opinion. I am having trouble respecting you.
Discuss the topic without the verbal garbage being spewed and an open minded debate can ensue. Otherwise you are pontificating with a closed mind and a childish wish that everyone will agree with you.

 

[superlittlegirl]

My belief is that human life begins when conciousness forms.. which TECHNICALLY doesn't happen until age two or so...

Just a random snip and an accompanying comment.

I'm no big fan of babies, but I think you're underestimating their capacity for consciousness. I could read and speak quite coherently by the time I was 2 years old. I'm not sure if this idea about consciousness formation you've developed is entirely accurate. We give a lot less credit to the human mind in early stages of development than it deserves.