Climate continues to change.

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Paul Krugman writes in the NYT:

Interests, Ideology And Climate

JUNE 8, 2014


There are three things we know about man-made global warming. First, the consequences will be terrible if we don’t take quick action to limit carbon emissions. Second, in pure economic terms the required action shouldn’t be hard to take: emission controls, done right, would probably slow economic growth, but not by much. Third, the politics of action are nonetheless very difficult.

But why is it so hard to act? Is it the power of vested interests?

I’ve been looking into that issue and have come to the somewhat surprising conclusion that it’s not mainly about the vested interests. They do, of course, exist and play an important role; funding from fossil-fuel interests has played a crucial role in sustaining the illusion that climate science is less settled than it is. But the monetary stakes aren’t nearly as big as you might think. What makes rational action on climate so hard is something else — a toxic mix of ideology and anti-intellectualism.

Before I get to that, however, an aside on the economics.

I’ve noted in earlier columns that every even halfway serious study of the economic impact of carbon reductions — including the recent study paid for by the anti-environmental U.S. Chamber of Commerce — finds at most modest costs. Practical experience points in the same direction. Back in the 1980s conservatives claimed that any attempt to limit acid rain would have devastating economic effects; in reality, the cap-and-trade system for sulfur dioxide was highly successful at minimal cost. The Northeastern states have had a cap-and-trade arrangement for carbon since 2009, and so far have seen emissions drop sharply while their economies grew faster than the rest of the country. Environmentalism is not the enemy of economic growth.

But wouldn’t protecting the environment nonetheless impose costs on some sectors and regions? Yes, it would — but not as much as you think.

Consider, in particular, the much-hyped “war on coal.” It’s true that getting serious about global warming means, above all, cutting back on (and eventually eliminating) coal-fired power, which would hurt regions of the country that depend on coal-mining jobs. What’s rarely pointed out is how few such jobs still exist.

Once upon a time King Coal was indeed a major employer: At the end of the 1970s there were more than 250,000 coal miners in America. Since then, however, coal employment has fallen by two-thirds, not because output is down — it’s up, substantially — but because most coal now comes from strip mines that require very few workers. At this point, coal mining accounts for only one-sixteenth of 1 percent of overall U.S. employment; shutting down the whole industry would eliminate fewer jobs than America lost in an average week during the Great Recession of 2007-9.

Or put it this way: The real war on coal, or at least on coal workers, took place a generation ago, waged not by liberal environmentalists but by the coal industry itself. And coal workers lost.

The owners of coal mines and coal-fired power plants do have a financial interest in blocking environmental policy, but even there the special interests don’t look all that big. So why is the opposition to climate policy so intense?

Well, think about global warming from the point of view of someone who grew up taking Ayn Rand seriously, believing that the untrammeled pursuit of self-interest is always good and that government is always the problem, never the solution. Along come some scientists declaring that unrestricted pursuit of self-interest will destroy the world, and that government intervention is the only answer. It doesn’t matter how market-friendly you make the proposed intervention; this is a direct challenge to the libertarian worldview.

And the natural reaction is denial — angry denial. Read or watch any extended debate over climate policy and you’ll be struck by the venom, the sheer rage, of the denialists.

The fact that climate concerns rest on scientific consensus makes things even worse, because it plays into the anti-intellectualism that has always been a powerful force in American life, mainly on the right. It’s not really surprising that so many right-wing politicians and pundits quickly turned to conspiracy theories, to accusations that thousands of researchers around the world were colluding in a gigantic hoax whose real purpose was to justify a big-government power grab. After all, right-wingers never liked or trusted scientists in the first place.

So the real obstacle, as we try to confront global warming, is economic ideology reinforced by hostility to science. In some ways this makes the task easier: we do not, in fact, have to force people to accept large monetary losses. But we do have to overcome pride and willful ignorance, which is hard indeed.
 
A study shows that underwater volcanoes are partly responsible for Antarctica's recent ice loss, and the right wing news sites are making a big deal about it, despite the fact that underwater volcanoes are nothing new.
 
China has responded. Of course, their word doesn't carry a lot of weight.

you'd be surprised! Moreover, why do you believe the US will act and China won't?

More countries need to act NOW! ffs..I've already staked my claim on the top of a nearby mountain.. which will, if we don't act, become an island. Oh wait, I'll need a boat...with oars or a solar battery for the motor..or better.. a friggin' sail!
 
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The last ice age happened in 6 months.

6 months for the planet to unleash an army of apartment-building-size ice blocks across Europe and the United States. It was a climate tipping point where the balance is knocked completely out of control and threatens the survival of everything -- and three more tipping points exactly like it are on the verge of happening.

It's our "holy shit" climate moment according to a leading NASA scientist, and only a holy shit massive coordinated day of action response, right now, can change the future we’re facing.

One agreement with common sense steps to end dirty energy can save us. That’s why the UN has called an urgent climate meeting in just over 100 days with all major world leaders — if we greet them on September 20th with the largest ever global climate mobilisation in history we can break through the walls of mega coal, oil, and business that prevent even the best politicians from doing what is right.

There’s no way to get around how big a task this is. But together, each small action will add up into a millions-strong movement that literally drowns out the opposition and gives our leaders the best reason to break free and build a hopeful, clean and green future. Click below to join in:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/join_to_change_everything/?bIiJvbb&v=41002

“Tipping points” are feedback loops, where climate change feeds back on itself and causes rapidly accelerating, catastrophic consequences. Right now, methane gas that is 25 times worse for global warming than CO2 is frozen in our ice. But as the ice melts, the gas leaks, causing more melting and each melt loses us another layer of reflective ice shield that we rely on keep the planet cool, more methane and less ice means more warming still, and everything starts to spin out of control. And that's just one example… it’s why scientists are yelling from the rooftops that we have to act now.

We actually have the tools and the plan we need to make sure we don’t cross into a world where tipping points destroy us. And while it will take global cooperation on a bigger scale than ever before, our 36 million-strong movement already has the people power necessary to move leaders from every country to take the first steps. Just days ago, the United States and China announced serious new plans to curb their pollution — momentum is building ahead of next year’s critical Paris climate summit where a deal could be inked, and in just over 100 days we can take it up a notch further.

Taking to the streets on September 20th in a record setting show of power and coordination is one of the most effective ways to create change -- from the anti-Apartheid movement in South Africa to civil rights in the US, it’s sometimes been the only way. This is our chance to bring that power to the most important issue of our time: survival and a thriving future for our families, and their families and the generations of people to come
 
I care. It's friggin cold - we need to accelerate this. :rolleyes:

so put on another layer of clothes..or fire up the coal/gas/electric heater?

and if it's summer, switch on the electric AC..or design houses better so they stay cool, or live deep underground?
 
you'd be surprised! Moreover, why do you believe the US will act and China won't?

More countries need to act NOW! ffs..I've already staked my claim on the top of a nearby mountain.. which will, if we don't act, become an island. Oh wait, I'll need a boat...with oars or a solar battery for the motor..or better.. a friggin' sail!
Sorry, this is the climate facts thread, not the bullshit thread.

China, by the way, has a lot more to lose.


https://www.e-education.psu.edu/drupal6/files/geog030/climate/m4_ciesin.jpg
 
the good thing is this, with global warming large bodies of land will be under water. we, the working class can build walls or ships for humanity to live on and your kind can finally enjoy the beach while collecting more welfare...


oh wait, you will drown


that's it, global warming is the cure! global warming will end welfare and put and end to the obama slaves





Sorry, this is the climate facts thread, not the bullshit thread.

China, by the way, has a lot more to lose.


https://www.e-education.psu.edu/drupal6/files/geog030/climate/m4_ciesin.jpg
 
What side is that? You are clearly not on the side of rationality.


remember when your mentally destroyed ass, was upset about Bush's patriot act?

yet, you fucktard loves patriot act II

and yet, you wonder why you are poor...struggling to make ends meet
 
remember when your mentally destroyed ass, was upset about Bush's patriot act?

yet, you fucktard loves patriot act II

and yet, you wonder why you are poor...struggling to make ends meet

i don't have to say a word then...this sums it up for me!
 
climate change is bogus

To think that human existance causes the weather is not scientific. One meteor changes everything. Why punish poor people to change a microscopic difference..
 
The last ice age happened in 6 months.

No, the last ice age never ended; we're still in it. An ice age is any period when there is ice at the poles. Our species has lived its entire existence in that kind of world and is not adapted for any other.
 
I'm going with...

I'm gonna have to go with Nearly every scientist on earth on this topic. Not just nearly every climate scientist but nearly every single scientist and nearly every scientific organization/association/college or group of scientists. If it was just some UK scientists, I'd blow it off. If it was just NASA and the UN reports...I'd probably blow it off. But and this is important ...it's just about every scientist on earth and all of their support staff many of home have doctorates themselves.

Also keep in mind that all of those climate scientists have already taken into account that "the earth changes over time no matter what happens' They also have taken into account solar cycles, Ice ages, the other planet's effects on earth and the earth's tilt. They've taken everything into account and they concluded that "Man is causing global warming apart from any other natural cycle we may be in'

You may say follow the money but there is way more money flowing into scientific research from conservative think tanks and large fossil fuel companies. Also keep in mind that thousands of these scientists don't rely on any government funding of any type. They've come to this conclusion on their own after some really good research.

You can believe who you want and it's good to be skeptical but ...like I said earlier in this post..when just about every single scientist on earth, except for the ones in the pocket of the big oil and coal companies tell us that we are causing global warming and that we need to take action. I'm going to listen. You should too.
 
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