Citizen Kane

[sexy-girl]

i watched this movie for the first time today (yes yes i know i should of seen it sooner) i was aware of all the hype surrounding it but it truly was a master piece of film making acting (by welles) cinematography and direction was simply stunning even by today's standards i cant believe how good this film was and i would love to see it again already

i did guess what rosebud might of meant though half way through the film and i was proved to be right hehe i even have lisa as a witness



so what are peoples views on this film has anyone not seen it ?

 

[Svedish_Chef]

I'm just glad we got sexy lisa back in avs.

Thank heavens, for that I'll hope the Palace win

 

[sexy-girl]

yes the av is back hehe thanks chef for not leaving me alone in this little ole thread i was thinking nobody would reply


i think i need DCL he is a big fan of citizen kane if i remember rightly



(palace are doing terrible but thanks )

 

[lavender]

 

[sexy-girl]

yes thank you lavender thats next film on the list of classic must see's ... my sister has it on tape but she keeps forgetting it or i would of watched it this weekend too

 

[Pechorin]

First saw Citizen Kane at school as a 14 year old on a big screen and was bowled over by it. I generally have a soft spot for b/w films anyway but CK is special. If you didn't get to watch it on a big screen it's worth seeking out a showing somewhere. The true atmosphere doesn't translate well onto the smaller screen.

Didn't guess the true identity of Rosebud myself I'm afraid.

 

[Richard49]

I'm a fan

The movie was great.

The story behind the movie and the story behind how the movie was keep from the public is even more interesting.

Richard
Michigan

 

[juicylips]

Excellent Film!!

I try to watch it at least once a year and seem to fall in love with it again every time.

A true masterpiece.

Your time was well spent, SG

Kisses,
Cassidy

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Roger Ebert's excellent take on Citizen Kane:

---------------


CITIZEN KANE

BY ROGER EBERT

``I don't think any word can explain a man's life,'' says one of the searchers through the warehouse of treasures left behind by Charles Foster Kane. Then we get the famous series of shots leading to the closeup of the word ``Rosebud'' on a sled that has been tossed into a furnace, its paint curling in the flames. We remember that this was Kane's childhood sled, taken from him as he was torn from his family and sent east to boarding school.

Rosebud is the emblem of the security, hope and innocence of childhood, which a man can spend his life seeking to regain. It is the green light at the end of Gatsby's pier; the leopard atop Kilimanjaro, seeking nobody knows what; the bone tossed into the air in ``2001.'' It is that yearning after transience that adults learn to suppress. ``Maybe Rosebud was something he couldn't get, or something he lost,'' says Thompson, the reporter assigned to the puzzle of Kane's dying word. ``Anyway, it wouldn't have explained anything.'' True, it explains nothing, but it is remarkably satisfactory as a demonstration that nothing can be explained. ``Citizen Kane'' likes playful paradoxes like that. Its surface is as much fun as any movie ever made. Its depths surpass understanding. I have analyzed it a shot at a time with more than 30 groups, and together we have seen, I believe, pretty much everything that is there on the screen. The more clearly I can see its physical manifestation, the more I am stirred by its mystery.

It is one of the miracles of cinema that in 1941 a first-time director; a cynical, hard-drinking writer; an innovative cinematographer, and a group of New York stage and radio actors were given the keys to a studio and total control, and made a masterpiece. ``Citizen Kane'' is more than a great movie; it is a gathering of all the lessons of the emerging era of sound, just as ``Birth of a Nation'' assembled everything learned at the summit of the silent era, and ``2001'' pointed the way beyond narrative. These peaks stand above all the others.

The origins of ``Citizen Kane'' are well known. Orson Welles, the boy wonder of radio and stage, was given freedom by RKO Radio Pictures to make any picture he wished. Herman Mankiewicz, an experienced screenwriter, collaborated with him on a screenplay originally called ``The American.'' Its inspiration was the life of William Randolph Hearst, who had put together an empire of newspapers, radio stations, magazines and news services, and then built to himself the flamboyant monument of San Simeon, a castle furnished by rummaging the remains of nations. Hearst was Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch and Bill Gates rolled up into an enigma.

Arriving in Hollywood at age 25, Welles brought a subtle knowledge of sound and dialogue along with him; on his Mercury Theater of the Air, he'd experimented with audio styles more lithe and suggestive than those usually heard in the movies. As his cinematographer he hired Gregg Toland, who on John Ford's ``The Long Voyage Home'' (1940) had experimented with deep focus photography--with shots where everything was in focus, from the front to the back, so that composition and movement determined where the eye looked first. For his cast Welles assembled his New York colleagues, including Joseph Cotten as Jed Leland, the hero's best friend; Dorothy Comingore as Susan Alexander, the young woman Kane thought he could make into an opera star; Everett Sloane as Mr. Bernstein, the mogul's business wizard; Ray Collins as Gettys, the corrupt political boss, and Agnes Moorehead as the boy's forbidding mother. Welles himself played Kane from age 25 until his deathbed, using makeup and body language to trace the progress of a man increasingly captive inside his needs. ``All he really wanted out of life was love,'' Leland says. ``That's Charlie's story--how he lost it.''

The structure of ``Citizen Kane'' is circular, adding more depth every time it passes over the life. The movie opens with newsreel obituary footage that briefs us on the life and times of Charles Foster Kane; this footage, with its portentous narration, is Welles' bemused nod in the direction of the ``March of Time'' newsreels then being produced by another media mogul, Henry Luce. They provide a map of Kane's trajectory, and it will keep us oriented as the screenplay skips around in time, piecing together the memories of those who knew him.

Curious about Kane's dying word, ``rosebud,'' the newsreel editor assigns Thompson, a reporter, to find out what it meant. Thompson is played by William Alland in a thankless performance; he triggers every flashback, yet his face is never seen. He questions Kane's alcoholic mistress, his ailing old friend, his rich associate and the other witnesses, while the movie loops through time. As often as I've seen ``Citizen Kane,'' I've never been able to firmly fix the order of the scenes in my mind. I look at a scene and tease myself with what will come next. But it remains elusive: By flashing back through the eyes of many witnesses, Welles and Mankiewicz created an emotional chronology set free from time.

The movie is filled with bravura visual moments: the towers of Xanadu; candidate Kane addressing a political rally; the doorway of his mistress dissolving into a front-page photo in a rival newspaper; the camera swooping down through a skylight toward the pathetic Susan in a nightclub; the many Kanes reflected through parallel mirrors; the boy playing in the snow in the background as his parents determine his future; the great shot as the camera rises straight up from Susan's opera debut to a stagehand holding his nose, and the subsequent shot of Kane, his face hidden in shadow, defiantly applauding in the silent hall.

Along with the personal story is the history of a period. ``Citizen Kane'' covers the rise of the penny press (here Joseph Pulitzer is the model), the Hearst-supported Spanish-American War, the birth of radio, the power of political machines, the rise of fascism, the growth of celebrity journalism. A newsreel subtitle reads: ``1895 to 1941. All of these years he covered, many of these he was.'' The screenplay by Mankiewicz and Welles (which got an Oscar, the only one Welles ever won) is densely constructed and covers an amazing amount of ground, including a sequence showing Kane inventing the popular press; a record of his marriage, from early bliss to the famous montage of increasingly chilly breakfasts; the story of his courtship of Susan Alexander and her disastrous opera career, and his decline into the remote master of Xanadu (``I think if you look carefully in the west wing, Susan, you'll find about a dozen vacationists still in residence'').

``Citizen Kane'' knows the sled is not the answer. It explains what Rosebud is, but not what Rosebud means. The film's construction shows how our lives, after we are gone, survive only in the memories of others, and those memories butt up against the walls we erect and the roles we play. There is the Kane who made shadow figures with his fingers, and the Kane who hated the traction trust; the Kane who chose his mistress over his marriage and political career, the Kane who entertained millions, the Kane who died alone.

There is a master image in ``Citizen Kane'' you might easily miss. The tycoon has overextended himself and is losing control of his empire. After he signs the papers of his surrender, he turns and walks into the back of the shot. Deep focus allows Welles to play a trick of perspective. Behind Kane on the wall is a window that seems to be of average size. But as he walks toward it, we see it is further away and much higher than we thought. Eventually he stands beneath its lower sill, shrunken and diminished. Then as he walks toward us, his stature grows again. A man always seems the same size to himself, because he does not stand where we stand to look at him.

 

[nasty]

I LOVE that movie.

 

[teresafannin]

I love Citizen Kane, as well. Amazing movie, one of my all time favorites.

 

[Siren]

Ck is the best movie of all time

 

[Dillinger]

Yes... one of my favorite movies as well. In fact, I can't think of an Orsen Welles moving that isn't GREAT! And more then a couple of them are truly mind blowing.

There is one that isn't all that well know... "F for Fake" - its a documentary - sort of. The trick is... what's fake and what's not. Its not a gripping movie by any stretch of the imagination but if you see it knowing that Welles was one one of the most devious Discordians around you'll come out the other side with a few fuses blown as well.

 

[James Blandings]

I'm sure there are quite a few Citizen Kane fans around these parts.

Check out The Third Man, sexy-girl. I think you'll enjoy it as well.

I have both Kane and The Third Man on DVD. Brilliant beautiful films. You have excellent taste, Lavender.

 

[James Blandings]

Speaking of Rober Ebert re:Citizen Kane, he does a commentary track on the DVD that is excellent.

 

[sexy-girl]

my views on rosebud :

i think it has a double meaning in that he was thinking of when he was with his family and what his life would of been like if he had stayed with them ... the obvious clue is the snow globe that he is looking into (its snowing at the start of the film)


but also i think the real meaning is the failure of anyone to suggest that is what he meant ... the failure for them to accept that he perhaps wished for a more simple life ... nobody in the film suggested this when they were exploring what he meant about rosebud ... i think this is the human nature known as greed that is a running theme through the film

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Another fan here

Hi Sexy Girl.

I didn't see "Citizen Kane" until I was well into my 30s, and I loved it immediately! I never miss an opportunity to watch it when it appears on cable. I especially love the atmosphere of it all!

HBO had a great movie made regarding the making of this film, which I would recommend as well for viewing: "RKO 281".

 

[kotori]

Rosebud

Roger Ebert's excellent take on Citizen Kane:
<snip>
Its inspiration was the life of William Randolph Hearst, who had put together an empire of newspapers, radio stations, magazines and news services, and then built to himself the flamboyant monument of San Simeon, a castle furnished by rummaging the remains of nations. Hearst was Ted Turner, Rupert Murdoch and Bill Gates rolled up into an enigma.
<snip>

Allegedly, "rosebud" was also the nickname that Hurst had for Marion Davies, upon whom the Susan Alexander character was based. It was their pet name for her pussy. Hurst supposedly blew a fuse over the whole thing, and did his damnest to have the film surpressed, but as with Turner, Murdock and Gates, there were enough people who hated him as well. I first saw the film in the early '70s, in a highschool classroom, on a 16mm projector.

And as Mr. Blandings has noted, the DVDs of both those films are well worth the price. BTW, how's the dream house going?

 

[Scabbers]

. . . Check out The Third Man, sexy-girl. I think you'll enjoy it as well.

The Third Man is truly one of the all-times greats. If you want to see another fantastic Carol Reed picture, look for Odd Man Out with James Mason and Robert Newton. Mason plays an IRA man shot in a bank robbery gone bad. Haven't seen it in years, I would assume it's on tape or dvd.

 

[sexy-girl]

well im still living with mother so thats how the house search is coming ... we're not in a rush though


i had heard the rosebud nickname theory too


i would like to see the making of citizen kane i will keep an eye out of that too jenny thanks ... and im seeing the third man this weekend probably

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

my views on rosebud :

i think it has a double meaning in that he was thinking of when he was with his family and what his life would of been like if he had stayed with them ... the obvious clue is the snow globe that he is looking into (its snowing at the start of the film)


but also i think the real meaning is the failure of anyone to suggest that is what he meant ... the failure for them to accept that he perhaps wished for a more simple life ... nobody in the film suggested this when they were exploring what he meant about rosebud ... i think this is the human nature known as greed that is a running theme through the film

In the Newreel sequence at the top of the film a Reporter suggests with a bit of foreshadowing that Rosebud will probably turn out to be "a very simple thing". This is, of course, exactly the truth and very much wrong. What Rosebud is, is a simple childhood memory, an object, but it's why Kane recalls it at the end of his life that reveals Rosebud's deeper, and more complex meaning.

And what is that meaning? "Here's to Love on my own terms" Kane toasts with Jedediah later in his life. Love on his own terms, because all the people who offered him unconditional love in his life have betrayed him before, beginning with his stern mother. The last time he recalled believing in unconditional love was the moment just before he was told he would be going away -- and at that moment he was holding Rosebud. That moment, not at all understood by the child, was very much remembered by the man, who could not help associating Rosebud with the memory of the day when he abandoned all hope of unconditional love.

In the scene where he meets Susan Alexander we have a hint that he's begun yearning for that kind of love again. He tells her that he was on his way to a warehouse to look over some of his childhood things sent over from his mother's old house. He says he has a yearning to see them. Rosebud, of course, is among those possessions. But he never goes. Instead he stays with Susan, who doesn't know who he is or how rich or important he might be, and he plays shadow puppets on the wall with her. She likes him. And finally, finally, finally, he finds unconditional love once again. He does not need to continue on to the warehouse now, for he's found his Rosebud in Susan.

This is why he sarafices all the "important" things for her; his marriage and political career. Nothing is more important than unconditional love. He marries Susan.

But he damage to his psyche is too deep. He cannot trust the unconditional love for too long, and eventually he forces Susan into a box of love on his own terms. He builds the greatest jail in the world for that love -- Xanadu, and locks her in. By the time he realizes his mistake, she has left him, and once again he has been betrayed by love.

Now his yearning for love, freely given, without expectation, is stronger than ever, and makes him mad. He wrecks Susan's room, but stops when he finds the snowglobe, which recalls his youth. So, as he dies, his thoughts are of the last time he ever felt that such an innocent, comforting, protective, all encompassing love was possible -- on the snowy front yard of his mother's house, playing with Rosebud.

Maybe he wasn't all that crazy about the sled. Maybe he had other toys that were more important to him. But at that moment, on that lawn, Rosebud is what he was holding.

So, Rosebud is something very simple, as the reporter predicted. And it was much more.

I think, in a sense, we're all looking for unconditional love. When people marry well they aren't marrying the best or brightest people they can find, but the people who make them the best or brightest people they can be. Recently I was talking to agirl who couldn't decide on three men she was dating, and I told her that she shouldn't pick one of the three guys, but one of the three girls, because she was a different person with each guy. Which of those girls do you like the best? Pick her, and then you've found the guy. That's when you know love is right, and simple, and easy. That's when you feel most alive, when you are most yourself. And the experience of being alive is what we are after when we go on roller-coasters or watch movies or fall in love.

And when did Kane feel most alive? When he thought he had his mother's love. After being told that he would be sent away, that little boy vanished, and so did that feeling of being alive. Of course he wanted it back. We all do. It's what we search for in everything we do. We are all Charles Foster Kane, and every one of us has a Rosebud.

 

[Lasz]

It is a good movie,
The lighting is what impressed me the most with it.
The way he used lighting in that film was simly amazing.
I heard Ted Turner a few years ago wanted to colorize the movie, the film industry of course said NO, and realizing how much he would of been ostrasized if he had done that, he didn't colorize the movie. That would of been a crime.

Laz

 

[sexy-girl]

thanks DCL a very interesting post ... i do agree with a lot of what you saying but i still think there is a significant part of it that is meant about greed and the lack of happiness it brings ... this seems to be such a powerful role in the movie that throughout and i think so in the ending too


i also think that his mother did love him and that he was abused through beatings by his father and that's the reason why his mother sent him away ... i guess you never know though if he realizes this or not


i think i need to see the film again

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I've seen the movie about 30 times, and found something new each time. Last time I saw it I noted that the first Christmas gift Kane gets away from home -- is a sled. Kane receives it with a frown. Just another reminder of the new life completely replacing the old.

 

[Svedish_Chef]

I think, in a sense, we're all looking for unconditional love. When people marry well they aren't marrying the best or brightest people they can find, but the people who make them the best or brightest people they can be. Recently I was talking to a girl who couldn't decide on three men she was dating, and I told her that she shouldn't pick one of the three guys, but one of the three girls, because she was a different person with each guy. Which of those girls do you like the best? Pick her, and then you've found the guy. That's when you know love is right, and simple, and easy. That's when you feel most alive, when you are most yourself. And the experience of being alive is what we are after when we go on roller-coasters or watch movies or fall in love.

And when did Kane feel most alive? When he thought he had his mother's love. After being told that he would be sent away, that little boy vanished, and so did that feeling of being alive. Of course he wanted it back. We all do. It's what we search for in everything we do. We are all Charles Foster Kane, and every one of us has a Rosebud.