Choosing the right category

[SomaSlave]

A question for folks: how do you determine the best category for a story? I've noticed that picking the wrong category can have an adverse affect on views. Here's an example: I'm working on a series about a man who has become an unpaid "pleasure giver" at a motel. He himself is bisexual; most of his adventures end up with him sucking one or more cocks (Gay Male). However, he also enjoys wearing lingerie and expressing his inner helpless maiden (Transgender/Crossdressing). In one episode, his (male) client and he both wore pantyhose as the main aspect of their play (Fetish). In another, he gives a client a foot job while wearing stockings, while the client applies a zipper to him and rips it off (BDSM).

In another story series, the hero is used by individuals (Gay Male) while being taken on a progressive shopping trip to buy/wear women's clothing (Transgender/Crossdressing). At the end of the series, he'll be used by all the men at once (Group)

Is it better to stick with one category for a series, or try to make the category match the particular story?

I've noticed I get better scores for Gay Male stories than for the others, with Fetish resulting in relatively low scores. I realize there are expectations for stories in each category, which complicates matters. For example, I don't see a lot of M/m stories in the BDSM category and almost none in the Group category.

What standard do you use to determine the best category for a story?

For reference, here are my stories:
https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=5255014&page=submissions

Thanks for your advice and wisdom.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The classic guidance to this sort of question is Tx Tall Tale’s Love Your Readers. Highly recommended. Good luck!

 

[SomaSlave]

Thank you. That was an excellent article with excellent advice.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

While I have my qualms about that article, it does it's job. For the purpose of the question asked here the category to submit to is Gay Male.

My issue with that article is that it doesn't give Gay Male attention as it's own category. Like yes I understand that it's a trump category but that doesn't mean readers of the gay Male category don't have any expectations or that the category doesn't have plots that dominate the scoreboard.

 

[SimonDoom]

While I have my qualms about that article, it does it's job. For the purpose of the question asked here the category to submit to is Gay Male.

My issue with that article is that it doesn't give Gay Male attention as it's own category. Like yes I understand that it's a trump category but that doesn't mean readers of the gay Male category don't have any expectations or that the category doesn't have plots that dominate the scoreboard.

That's not the purpose of the article. Its sole purpose is to help guide authors in where to post their stories. It's not intended to explore all the nuances of stories that are posted there.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

That's not the purpose of the article. Its sole purpose is to help guide authors in where to post their stories. It's not intended to explore all the nuances of stories that are posted there.

Yeah but it did it for loving wives and the other main category descriptions seem way more insightful.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah but it did it for loving wives and the other main category descriptions seem way more insightful.

Because Loving Wives is a non-trump category where the author has a choice of categories and must take a variety of things into account in determining where to put the story. I have written Loving Wives-ish stories and put them in other categories after giving the matter a lot of thought, and that's worked out well.
With trump categories like Gay Male, there's nothing to consider. If there's gay sex, that's where it goes. It's not necessarily right or sensible, and the author of the article isn't endorsing it. He's just saying that's the way it is at Literotica. There's nothing to think about.

 

[maryanek]

It's very unfair gay stories are squeezed all in one category, regardless of topic

 

[SomaSlave]

It's very unfair gay stories are squeezed all in one category, regardless of topic

It sucks, and not in a good way. I have a couple of series in progress that should be spread out across Gay Male, BDSM, Group, Fetish and Crossdresser/Trans. However, I've found out the hard way that there are strong biases against all male activity in several of those, even though all female activity is fine. I suspect that's due in part to subconscious biases in the male readers in those categories. C'est la vie.

 

[maryanek]

It sucks, and not in a good way. I have a couple of series in progress that should be spread out across Gay Male, BDSM, Group, Fetish and Crossdresser/Trans. However, I've found out the hard way that there are strong biases against all male activity in several of those, even though all female activity is fine. I suspect that's due in part to subconscious biases in the male readers in those categories. C'est la vie.

YES, yes, yes! It's exactly as you said! And it's so sad because it shows hidden homophobia in people... On the surface everything is okay, smiling, "we are allies", rainbow flag, and underneath "stick to your own category and shut up!" But lesbian stories are in Incest, in Fetish, in Non-con and so on and don't get downvoted. Gay stories I saw were downvoted so harshly it was crazy

 

[ofbuttons]

I definitely got some hefty 1-bombs for putting a story about sex between two men outside of Gay Male, but managed to settle in at 4.28. The rest of the parts all came above a 4.4, but NC/R is probably a little more permissive in this way. I also just had to make a call about whether I minded incurring the wrath of homophobes who refused to just scroll on, or putting a reluctance story where it shouldn't be, and chose the former.

There will be some gay male content in my current series, also in NC/R, so that'll be a fun experiment.

It's annoying, though. Gay Male content can be so diverse, it can be perfectly vanilla or deeply explore BDSM themes, it can feature mature characters and explore those age differences, it can be deeply romantic or highly problematic, but instead is relegated to a single category anyway because queerness is in itself treated as a single kink, and we have to use the tags to navigate it. I think it harmfully narrows what people feel like they can bring to the Gay Male category too.

But Literotica readership, as a majority, is like 20 years behind the times, progressively speaking, maybe more. Just is what it is.

 

[Edey]

It sucks, and not in a good way. I have a couple of series in progress that should be spread out across Gay Male, BDSM, Group, Fetish and Crossdresser/Trans. However, I've found out the hard way that there are strong biases against all male activity in several of those, even though all female activity is fine. I suspect that's due in part to subconscious biases in the male readers in those categories. C'est la vie.

I agree.
As an author of gay and trans stories I had trouble with my werewolf story, I didn't know where to put it, in Fantasy or in Gay. I had to put it in GM... So it is in Gay Male... and it remained as one of my least popular stories.

I have several more gay fantasy stories and they... just lay on my Google Doc. I don't publish them.
As I checked - gay stories in Fantasy are published on occasions but are harshly voted there.
So, there is no good resolution to this situation, really

I also have many romance stories, that are not that popular in Gay Male category, some people like it, but it's not the favorite topic there. I would love to have Gay Romance category! I would thrive there! But I have to put my romance stories along with pure smuts, and often lose. And it's hard to find readers sometimes, that just like more gentle approach to sex. It's sad, that we are trapped in one category.

 

[ofbuttons]

As an author of gay and trans stories I had trouble with my werewolf story, I didn't know where to put it, in Fantasy or in Gay. I had to put it in GM... So it is in Gay Male... and it remained as one of my least popular stories.

I do wonder if something like SciFi & Fantasy would be more embracing of a gay male story than the Gay Male category would embrace fantasy. I know that Gay Male is classically a "trump" category, but thinking as an audience member, I imagine I'd be more likely to find what I'm looking for if I was into gay fantasy in the Fantasy section than Gay Male.

You'd get some angry one-bombs, but you'd probably find your audience at the same time a little more effectively. Depends on if you care more about ratings vs readership, and either is legitimate to care about.

 

[SomaSlave]

I agree.
As an author of gay and trans stories I had trouble with my werewolf story, I didn't know where to put it, in Fantasy or in Gay. I had to put it in GM... So it is in Gay Male... and it remained as one of my least popular stories.

I have several more gay fantasy stories and they... just lay on my Google Doc. I don't publish them.
As I checked - gay stories in Fantasy are published on occasions but are harshly voted there.
So, there is no good resolution to this situation, really

I also have many romance stories, that are not that popular in Gay Male category, some people like it, but it's not the favorite topic there. I would love to have Gay Romance category! I would thrive there! But I have to put my romance stories along with pure smuts, and often lose. And it's hard to find readers sometimes, that just like more gentle approach to sex. It's sad, that we are trapped in one category.

This is going to be a major challenge for me in a couple of my series. The hero is discovering that his inner feminine nature is taking him down roads he didn't anticipate. In one of them, it will lead to him becoming a part-time woman, but not medically/surgically. It will be more of a crossdressing experience, but not in the traditional way. It may wind up with romance elements, but is it a gay romance or a CD/TV romance? I have a feeling neither crowd will be happy with it, but that's the path he appears to have chosen.

If that sounded complex and uncertain, it's because that's how life works. I'm trying hard to avoid stereotypes in my stories (no Adonises, no multibillionaire 20 year olds, old guys have dad bods); I'm also incorporating large swaths of my own journey and desires for future explorations. Both of those cross classification lines all the time. I suppose the best I can do here is keep things in GM, with the occasional trip to CD/TS and a couple of side trips to BDSM (so far, those stories involve Dommes, so I should be OK).

But, if some people, at least, read the stories and see a bit of themselves reflected and enjoy the occasional quirky cultural references, I'll be happy. Of course, I'd be even happier if they caught some of the curveballs I like to put in the last lines of stories, but I'll have to live with being too subtle for my own good.

 

[Edey]

I do wonder if something like SciFi & Fantasy would be more embracing of a gay male story than the Gay Male category would embrace fantasy.

It's possible, but I'm a bit hesitant to try it In GM you will receive lower views but rarely one-star bomb.
In Fantasy I could have more views, but the story would be 3.9 So my nice stories about gay elven prince will stay on my disc for now

This is going to be a major challenge for me in a couple of my series. The hero is discovering that his inner feminine nature is taking him down roads he didn't anticipate. In one of them, it will lead to him becoming a part-time woman, but not medically/surgically. It will be more of a crossdressing experience, but not in the traditional way. It may wind up with romance elements, but is it a gay romance or a CD/TV romance? I have a feeling neither crowd will be happy with it, but that's the path he appears to have chosen.

I love this kind of complications. I also have trans-cross-gay stories that don't fit anywhere perfectly, so I know the struggle. I need to check some of your stories, it sounds interesting what you write

 

[Rob_Royale]

I agree that for most of ALL of the work posted here, cross categories constantly. I'd love for our work to be able to be posted in ... maybe up to three categories? Does that seem fair? I do mostly May/December romances and to be able to put it in the Mature and Romance category would be terrific.

 

[Edey]

Yes, some possibility to choose even from two categories would be great. Even if it would be called "subcategory" or smth like that, so for example my Werewolf story would have main: Gay Male, sub: Fantasy.
The only problem is how it would be listed in Fantasy category.
Mixed with straight stories?
And here we have the same problem again...