China thread.

[JohnEBbad]

*chuckle*

 

[schism666]

When will Covid kill them all?

???

They've only had 10 covid deaths.

lol. from the two geniuses who have gotten covid multiple times.

*chuckle*

 

[Chobham]

It just keeps getting worse for China. Foreign companies are pulling out of China as fast as they can. Foxcon's work force in China has been reduced by 80% as they move their operations to Vietnam, India, and Mexico. Two days ago there were zero ships in Shanghai harbor. Their domestic real estate market is in free fall as is their domestic consumer purchasing. At least two of their provinces are in a state of bankruptcy and it is suspected that there are a few more on top of that. Even the most ardent of the Chinaphiles investment bankers are painting a cautionary grim picture now.

As the Chinese financial system spiral's down the drain the probability of a Taiwanese invasion grows. The Chinese press is growing more strident in it's anti-American rhetoric while rumblings of reunifying Taiwan grow louder. In other words their press organs are seemingly prepping the population for war. This should come as no surprise in that the CCP will do anything to preserve itself, the needs and well being of the population be damned. There is much to be said about starting a populist war from the standpoint of a regime determined to retain power.

Personally I see no real diplomatic solution. It is Xi's policies that are driving those companies out of China, the latest being their new 'security' policy. Their 'Wolf Warrior' diplomacy hasn't helped either. In other words this is virtually all a result of their own internal policies, not external. As long as those policies remain in force there is little likelihood of any diplomatic policy working and as long as Xi, who IS the CCP at this point, remains in power their is little likelihood of any positive policy changes.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I share the same concerns elucidated in your second paragraph. Dictatorships with inherent internal problems often turn to external conflict to take the heat off of themselves and try to give "the people" a boogey man to fear other than themselves.

In that regard, they remind me of the (Stalinist) Left who is always using the mischaracterization of their political opponents as the reincarnation of Hitler and of a greater danger than, oh, say China.

 

[Chobham]

Divide et Imperum.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

Differing points of view should not arouse such rancor in an educated, egalitarian society leading me to believe we are neither.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

Okay, just ran across this:

"The North Koreans spoke of fear they will either starve to death, as did their ancestors or be executed for even the smallest flouting of the rules. Some even admitted they longed for an attack by the US in order to put an end to the tyrannical regime."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1783521/Kim-Jong-un-revolt-North-Korea-us-attack-spt

 

[Chobham]

Okay, just ran across this:

"The North Koreans spoke of fear they will either starve to death, as did their ancestors or be executed for even the smallest flouting of the rules. Some even admitted they longed for an attack by the US in order to put an end to the tyrannical regime."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1783521/Kim-Jong-un-revolt-North-Korea-us-attack-spt

There's a lesson there. You can't have a thriving economy while maintaining a closed society, apparently Xi seems to think you can.

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I note they're not longing for an attack by China.

 

[Chobham]

China wouldn't attack them if begged to do so. Lil' Kim is China's 'useful idiot.'

 

[VinnyVeritas]

I could see them performing a hostile takeover and installing a new puppet.

 

[colddiesel]

I note they're not longing for an attack by China.

I am not so certain. China dominated and virtually called the shots in Korea for hundreds of years. Ordinary North Koreans might welcome it, but their opinions don't count. It is ironic that China has legitimate historical claims to dominating both Korea and Russian occupied Manchuria ( Russia took more than 600,000 square Km in the North East from China between 1860 and 1910?) China will take that back one day to give themselves direct access to the Sea of Japan. History supports the case for that far more than taking Taiwan. And would the West care tuppence if the Russians and Chinese started fighting?

 

[Chobham]

They'd be far better off turning the place over to S. Korea.

 

[Chobham]

I am not so certain. China dominated and virtually called the shots in Korea for hundreds of years. Ordinary North Koreans might welcome it, but their opinions don't count. It is ironic that China has legitimate historical claims to dominating both Korea and Russian occupied Manchuria ( Russia took more than 600,000 square Km in the North East from China between 1860 and 1910?) China will take that back one day to give themselves direct access to the Sea of Japan. History supports the case for that far more than taking Taiwan. And would the West care tuppence if the Russians and Chinese started fighting?

You make a good point re. Manchuria/Eastern Siberia. But why fight a war as long as the Russians are ginbing them unfettered access, and cheap, to the natural resources? And in the case of China invading same the Russians wouldn't hesitate to go nuclear.

 

[Chobham]

Time to update this thread a bit.

China's economy is swirling down the toilet, quickly. Foreign investment has plummeted, their Real Estate sector (30% of their economy) is going into default, the youth unemployment rate is so bad they've quit publishing it, and the multi-nationals are bailing out. All of this without even addressing the sanctions on their semi-conductor sector.

I no longer fear their invading Taiwan as much as I did previously for various reasons. The first being their trying to make nice-nice with Australia again. Of course they will, because they need to. The petroleum deliveries from Russia are not keeping up with their energy needs and they need Australia for the coal. And the series of typhoons that have ravaged them recently have also destroyed much of this years grain crops. So they're going to need a LOT of food imports to keep the peons from getting too restless, they can't afford sanctions. And it gets worse, their incessant propaganda against the Japanese release of treated water from the Fukushima disaster has so freaked their citizens out that they've quit buying seafood no matter what the source which has tanked their own fishing industry (talk about self-inflicted wounds).

As much as I want to enjoy these events, and the potential collapse of the CCP, I also realize that none of this is going to take place without severe international ramifications. In the financial sector that heavily invested in China to the fact that their food shortages is going to bid up the cost of groceries for everyone. The fallout from China's problems are going to effect virtually every market and, consequently, every individual world-wide.

Xi recently announced that he wouldn't be attending the G20 summit in India. All sorts of pundits are postulating all sorts of reasons why that has been announced, to snub India, to snub the US, fine. Or alternatively could it be that his internal political problems are so severe he dare not leave the country? Unpopular despots rarely travel to campaign on foreign soil. Also, unpopular despots tend to do irrational things to retain power. War is still on the table.

I think there's a lesson here for anyone that cares to learn from it. That being that centralized economies just don't work. Throughout the sweep of history they have never worked. The great fallacy of Communist/Socialist regimes. And Crony-Capitalism doesn't work either. Crony-Capitalism is just another form of centralized planning. If we don't get the government out of our boardrooms, classrooms,and bedrooms, we will follow the Chinese down that toilet.

 

[ll74]

no longer fear their invading Taiwan as much as I did previously for various reasons.

That's the only reason you made this thread

 

[Lazaran]

If we don't get the right wing fascists and sociopaths out of government, boardrooms, classrooms,and bedrooms, we deserve what follows.

•
Fyp;yw

 

[PaxNurgle]

Time to update this thread a bit.



I think there's a lesson here for anyone that cares to learn from it. That being that centralized economies just don't work. Throughout the sweep of history they have never worked. The great fallacy of Communist/Socialist regimes. And Crony-Capitalism doesn't work either. Crony-Capitalism is just another form of centralized planning. If we don't get the government out of our boardrooms, classrooms,and bedrooms, we will follow the Chinese down that toilet.

I didn't have room to quote the whole post but just giving credit here...this is one of the more intelligent things Hisarpy has posted on here. Especially..."If we don't get the government out of our classrooms and our bedrooms." I have always preached that a big part of freedom means live and let live.

 

[Chobham]

That's the only reason you made this thread

If you were actually as good at mind reading as you think you are Hollywood Psychics would still be in business. But you aren't and neither are they.

 

[Rightguide]

Let's start with this.

China Update.

The presenter is one of the most balanced observers that I've run across. He covers the pro's and con's without personal interjections. So what are the take a ways from the above?

China is floundering. Particularly with the latest sanctions re. integrated circuits. Their previous efforts resulted in massive shell games and corruption so there is no reason to believe that this recently announced effort won't result in the same. Our own government is just as guilty. Virtually all of the really great advances did not come about as a result of government subsidies.

China is still NOT a consumer economy, even the report cited doesn't take that into consideration. They are a factory, they import raw material, process it, then export goods. Mostly cheap goods. They are even more subject to supply chains than the rest of us, particularly with regard to the import side.

I'm having a real *chuckle* over the notion that China thought it could stick it's nose into Afghanistan after the embarrassing exit of the US. You go Xi.

China is pretty much screwed right now and the future doesn't seem to bode very well either. Patrick Bet-David had a pretty good take on China here a few days ago:

 

[Dunes_et_Soleil]

China has production capacity, access to resources and is working on organizing the global South regarding trade and alternative finance. The recession in the West will continue to have a negative impact on the Chinese economy. What's worrying that soon the US might not be able to pay for the goods and services from the Brics nations with US dollars.

 

[LLCox]

Xi got rid of anyone he thought smarter than him. Now he trusts no one and decides Everything.

 

[lanceGibs]

Xi got rid of anyone he thought smarter than him. Now he trusts no one and decides Everything.

Isn't that the way all politicians work through out the world??

 

[LLCox]

Isn't that the way all politicians work through out the world??

china, NK and russia are a little more in your face with it.

 

[lanceGibs]

china, NK and russia are a little more in your face with it.

You may be serious this time but in my view all politicians and most corporate workers act and behave exactly like this