Category question: where to put a non-binary character?

[THBGato]

Hi all

A plea from a proud member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

So, I'm a Lesbian Sex writer. That's where my readership is. Thing is, in my latest story, I have a non-binary character who was assigned female at birth. (Though, as they explain, "non-binary" is in many ways a label of convenience for them, a "best-fit" as it were.) They are going to start a relationship with a woman. All of the sexual encounters they have are, frankly, very similar to those you would expect to find in a Lesbian Sex story.

BUT... should I post it there? Would I not then be guilty of gendering the character?

What are my other options? (Romance? Erotic couplings?)

Your thoughts?

Thanks

T x

 

[Bamagan]

Hi all

A plea from a proud member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

So, I'm a Lesbian Sex writer. That's where my readership is. Thing is, in my latest story, I have a non-binary character who was assigned female at birth. (Though, as they explain, "non-binary" is in many ways a label of convenience for them, a "best-fit" as it were.) They are going to start a relationship with a woman. All of the sexual encounters they have are, frankly, very similar to those you would expect to find in a Lesbian Sex story.

BUT... should I post it there? Would I not then be guilty of gendering the character?

What are my other options? (Romance? Erotic couplings?)

Your thoughts?

Thanks

T x

My thoughts are mostly that this is probably going to turn into an ugly thread before too long. I hope I'm wrong.
Are you averse to placing it the the Transgender category? That would be my first suggestion. I don't think you'd be risking a huge blowback for placing it in Lesbian, since it sounds like the sex would be mechanically the same as between two women, so it's probably okay as a back-up plan if you're more comfortable speaking to a familiar audience.

 

[THBGato]

Yes, I worry about that too. I hope we're both wrong.

The character is definitely not trans - they are very clear about that. Saying that they crossdress would involve gendering them. So, I would say that's not the right category.

 

[KeithD]

Literotica doesn't provide a good placement for this sort of story. Suggest you put it in Lesbian, where you say your readers expect to find you.

 

[StillStunned]

Add some butt stuff and put it in Anal.

 

[Bamagan]

Yes, I worry about that too. I hope we're both wrong.

The character is definitely not trans - they are very clear about that. Saying that they crossdress would involve gendering them. So, I would say that's not the right category.

Well, crossdressing is not something that occurs in every story there, so simply putting it in the category doesn't imply anything to that effect. I think it's still the 'best fit' category, to borrow your words. Whatever particular terminology you're using for your character, their experiences with gender will probably be more relatable to readers of that category than any of the others.

 

[Bamagan]

Add some butt stuff and put it in Anal.

Good advice. Like they say, when God closes the front door, you use the back one instead. Ignore anyone who suggests defenestration, though.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

If the story is mostly about the sex and it's going to be afab bits getting together, Lesbian Sex. Especially if outsiders would look at your character and guess they were female.

If it's more about the experience of being genderqueer and not female, I'd go for Transgender which is a wide category, but not that many readers. LS would likely get more reads.

 

[TheLobster]

Given what goes on in T&CG, it seems to be catch-all category for "non-standard-gender stuff." The category description basically says as much.

I'd probably try there first, although AFAIK it might net you fewer readers than Lesbian.

 

[THBGato]

Thanks @TheLobster @Kumquatqueen and @Bamagan

It's a love story. It's not really about the character's gender identity; it's more they happen to be non-binary. Yes, they get mistaken for a man, but that happens to plenty of butch lesbians in Lesbian Sex stories.

Would this really not work in Romance or Erotic Couplings?

(This is where my lack of reading outside of Lesbian Sex is a major disadvantage.)

 

[Bamagan]

Thanks @TheLobster @Kumquatqueen and @Bamagan

It's a love story. It's not really about the character's gender identity; it's more they happen to be non-binary. Yes, they get mistaken for a man, but that happens to plenty of butch lesbians in Lesbian Sex stories.

Would this really not work in Romance or Erotic Couplings?

(This is where my lack of reading outside of Lesbian Sex is a major disadvantage.)

It could, I suppose. It's too nuanced a question to answer easily. EC is kind of a grab-all, so it's hard to predict how anything will be received there (at least, I find it difficult). I haven't read much ROM lately, but my impression in the past was that most anything that ended 'happily ever after' could make a good landing there. I don't know if that's still true.

Given that gender identity is a cultural powder keg right now, at least in much of the Western world, and that there are some readers who are likely to take a story that's even peripherally about those issues as a challenge to their worldview, I think you basically will be either trying to avoid them or confront them. That your story isn't really about gender identity might not matter much, as that will be the part someone with an axe to grind will fixate on.

It's possible that the discussion is moot, too, as Laurel has been known to recategorize stories based on her own understanding of what belongs where.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You are so overthinking this. No one is going to give a rat's ass if it's in Lesbian or TG as long as it's a good story. Put the appropriate tags and the short disclaimer if you feel you should do that. But there is really no need to be this obsessive and worried about potentially stepping on someone's toes. It's not as big of a deal as you imagine it to be. That's my opinion at least.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Does the story seem likely to appeal to LS readers in its emotional beats?

Imagine if you opened up the LS category and found a story with the following preface:

This isn't technically Lesbian Sex in that one of the characters is nonbinary. I'm publishing it in the Lesbian Sex category anyway because that's the category where I'm most likely to find readers who appreciate X, Y, and Z.

Alternatively, it seems like people have done this and been rated well: https://tags.literotica.com/lesbian-sex-category-tags/nonbinary/?sort_by=rating I didn't check the comments to see if anyone took offense.

 

[THBGato]

Oh, thanks, didn't think to do that (check tags).

A disclaimer seems like a good idea.

 

[THBGato]

Fuck it, yeah I'm just going to put it in Lesbian Sex with the appropriate tags and a disclaimer.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Britva415]

What's the state of the art regarding the use of "trans" to refer to "transition" in addition to just "trans-" as in "the opposite of cis-" genderedness?

I'm asking because I've never seen (I'm not saying it doesn't happen, this is why I'm asking, I'm just saying I've never seen) NB people object to being lumped under the "trans" umbrella. I believed that the reason for this was that NB people also may transition. It's a transition away from gender rather than a transition into a trans gender, but there can still be a transition process.

Of course that isn't what defines NB and not all NB people have or ever will transition, though I'd opine that simply by identifying as NB they can't be said to have taken zero transitionary steps.

But there are NB people who are uncloseted, and/or who present in a gender-unconventional way, and/or who have had medical treatments in service of their transition. In other words, there are NB people who have undertaken transitioning beyond simply identifying as NB. There are also some who haven't and won't.

So that's what I wonder. Is the "trans" category inclusive to NBs in general? If so or if not, then, according to who? Does it apply to only some NBs? What would the criteria be? I'm not talking about the Lit category, I'm talking about the demographic category and/or the socio-political group.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yes, I worry about that too. I hope we're both wrong.

The character is definitely not trans - they are very clear about that. Saying that they crossdress would involve gendering them. So, I would say that's not the right category.

There's your answer - T &CD is not your category. Place it in Lesbian and write the nuances well. Trust your instincts and write an intelligent story. Intelligent readers will get it - readers who only want two hot chicks getting it on because that's a male fantasy might not, but do you really care about them?

 

[Cagivagurl]

Hi all

A plea from a proud member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

So, I'm a Lesbian Sex writer. That's where my readership is. Thing is, in my latest story, I have a non-binary character who was assigned female at birth. (Though, as they explain, "non-binary" is in many ways a label of convenience for them, a "best-fit" as it were.) They are going to start a relationship with a woman. All of the sexual encounters they have are, frankly, very similar to those you would expect to find in a Lesbian Sex story.

BUT... should I post it there? Would I not then be guilty of gendering the character?

What are my other options? (Romance? Erotic couplings?)

Your thoughts?

Thanks

T x

As a person who has written both lesbian and transgender stories.
I think your story could fit in either category...
The TG category isn't just about crossdressing. The TG category is there and possibly underused for stories where the character is firm in their belief that they are happy being who they are. Non binary sits a little outside the norm but I believe without reading your story. It could still live happily in the TG category...

It depends on how they see themselves. Whether there has been a period of self realisation... A transition of sorts as they decide on their future....

I think if the character identifies as female then lesbian is the place, regardless of their dangly bits. If the character identifies as non binary, then TG is the place to go....

The TG audience is very forgiving, and mostly kind. I think it would be appreciated in the category...
Just my thoughts. You do not have to fear a horrible backlash by posting.

If you would like to discuss, DM and we could chat...

BTW....
I'm no expert, just expressing an opinion...

Cagivagurl

 

[Bramblethorn]

IME most but not all nonbinary people would consider themselves part of "transgender" at least in a broad sense. So it's plausible to have a NB character who refuses to self-describe as "trans", but if it'd make things easier for you, you could also have them willing to accept "trans" without it undermining or erasing the NB part.

 

[Cagivagurl]

The problem for writers of bisexual, pan sexual, gender fluid, non binary or just plain curious.
There isn't a category.
We lump them in TG, or lesbian when in reality they are never fully going to float in Gay male, Lesbian or transgender....

For the questions on gender, I think the reason a lot of stories fall into TG, is because at some point in their lives. A person who has decided the assigned gender they have at birth is not who they are. They have to transition... Whether it's to a non binary identification, or bi, pan or gay.
They have made a choice that their lives don't work as they are.
The TG category is a kind and accepting category to post in because a lot of the readers have faced challenges. Had to make decisions about who they are...
We all try to fit into a society where we are pushed and directed from our earliest age.

This is normal... Anything else is abnormal... Until that changes, we will always have people struggling with their identity. Scared to emerge and show themselves as who they really are.

Not everybody fits into the (NORM)...

Just my thoughts
Cagivagurl

 

[THBGato]

Thanks for all your replies @Britva415 @ElectricBlue @Cagivagurl and @Bramblethorn I appreciate your thoughts and you taking the time.

The more I think about it, the more I think my story is NOT really about the non-binary POV character, and more a story about their love interest, a closeted lesbian woman coming to terms with her sexuality, her culturally acquired homophobia and her feelings. (It's also a story about friendship, language, music, racism and dance, but, yeah, the challenges of realising who you are, who you are attracted too and coming out are at the core of the story.) It's about her journey, not the NB character's journey. So I think Lesbian Sex is the best-fit.

This has been really educational. I realise I'm at a disadvantage living in a non-English speaking country and thus not really knowing how these terms are used in an everyday sense (I still read English media, but that's not the same). When I left the UK in 2008, "trans" was understood to be an abbreviation of "transsexual" - those changing their bodies physically to acquire a different gender to the one they had been assigned at birth. So I was wrong when I said the character denies they are "trans" - what they do is say that they "don't want to be a man": that was due to my ignorance about what the word "trans" has seemingly come to mean. I should have researched this better.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Thanks for all your replies @Britva415 @ElectricBlue @Cagivagurl and @Bramblethorn I appreciate your thoughts and you taking the time.

The more I think about it, the more I think my story is NOT really about the non-binary POV character, and more a story about their love interest, a closeted lesbian woman coming to terms with her sexuality, her culturally acquired homophobia and her feelings. (It's also a story about friendship, language, music, racism and dance, but, yeah, the challenges of realising who you are, who you are attracted too and coming out are at the core of the story.) It's about her journey, not the NB character's journey. So I think Lesbian Sex is the best-fit.

This has been really educational. I realise I'm at a disadvantage living in a non-English speaking country and thus not really knowing how these terms are used in an everyday sense (I still read English media, but that's not the same). When I left the UK in 2008, "trans" was understood to be an abbreviation of "transsexual" - those changing their bodies physically to acquire a different gender to the one they had been assigned at birth. So I was wrong when I said the character denies they are "trans" - what they do is say that they "don't want to be a man": that was due to my ignorance about what the word "trans" has seemingly come to mean. I should have researched this better.

Depending on how much the character hangs out with other non-binary and queer people, they may be in the same position as you, or alternatively reject the whole concept of gender and therefore refused to accept that there's anything to be trans from (but eventually figure that just because they don't experience gender as an innate thing doesn't mean other people don't).

Or they may end up identifying with trans solely as a political term - 'I'm not changing or accepting any gender, but those politicians are lumping me in with you and trying to erase our existence, so I'll stand up and be counted too'. Or they may realise that trans now stands for the broader term transgender, not what they may have been taught even by trans awareness workshops in the late 90s/early 2000s, and run with it. You could run in any of those directions.

Asking questions on Lit is research, fret not!

 

[OffNSFW]

As a bi person whose gender more or less resembles he/him, if you're a little drunk and you squint hard enough--

What's the story about? I write queer characters of one kind or another, and, like anybody else's, my stories could usually fit several categories. If gender isn't the main focus, what is?

 

[Bramblethorn]

This has been really educational. I realise I'm at a disadvantage living in a non-English speaking country and thus not really knowing how these terms are used in an everyday sense (I still read English media, but that's not the same). When I left the UK in 2008, "trans" was understood to be an abbreviation of "transsexual" - those changing their bodies physically to acquire a different gender to the one they had been assigned at birth. So I was wrong when I said the character denies they are "trans" - what they do is say that they "don't want to be a man": that was due to my ignorance about what the word "trans" has seemingly come to mean. I should have researched this better.

FWIW, some non-binary people change their bodies too.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Hi all

A plea from a proud member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

So, I'm a Lesbian Sex writer. That's where my readership is. Thing is, in my latest story, I have a non-binary character who was assigned female at birth. (Though, as they explain, "non-binary" is in many ways a label of convenience for them, a "best-fit" as it were.) They are going to start a relationship with a woman. All of the sexual encounters they have are, frankly, very similar to those you would expect to find in a Lesbian Sex story.

BUT... should I post it there? Would I not then be guilty of gendering the character?

What are my other options? (Romance? Erotic couplings?)

Your thoughts?

Thanks

T x

I feel you are overthinking this. What is the main theme of your work? Put it in that category. Most of my stuff goes in T/CD and many have aspects of other categories. One starts with an incestuous tryst between a brother and sister, but the main theme is the brothers transition, so T/CD.

The story I have on deck for publishing next month will be in Gay Male even though the MC cross dresses, because the main theme is a love story between two men. The cross dressing is consequential and just something they have to figure out how to deal with.

It sounds like your story is similar. One of your characters is non conforming, but is involved in a lesbian relationship. I'd put it in Lesbian.

PS. Thank you for supporting those of us who don't fit 'in the box' with your writing.