Can someone help me?

[djrip]

I think a lot of times with cuckold fiction, it's like taking the scenario people would role play in real life, and just writing it like it's real instead of role play. So then my first reaction might be something like, that's horrible! He doesn't want that! She's cheating! And saying terribly mean things while doing so! But really it's a fictionalization of the husband's fantasy, which in real life would at most be acted out, with the 'victim' not actually objecting. Then in some stories it is revealed that in fact everything was role play.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Like anything else, as long as it doesn't negatively affect your life, it's probably not harmful. If it does, then it is. It's why I can't drink, when others can.

Well, for certain religious people it's still a problem - they would likely say it is harmful. Note some of the listings under "thou shall not kill" and "thou shall not commit adultery."

https://stjudemaroniteutah.org/adult-confession-guide/

I stopped going to confession - well, I was very young, but I always hated it. Anyway, once you've been raised like that, you can disown it all you wish, but you are forever changed by it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

But again… why! Why is this sexy? I can tell you why everything I do feels sexy.

Again is this the Em is not a real sub stuff? How is being humiliated sexy?

I think it means you're not a real that specific type of sub.

I know. And people could point to stuff I like and say WTF. I think sex is being nice to each other. Really nice. I like a medium amount of pain. But I like it. I don’t get off on the power dynamic. I’d never be with a BDSM partner if I didn’t feel 100% in control of the situation - you could get seriously hurt.

I don’t see how humiliation and degradation can be anything but harmful. Am I too narrow minded?

I'm not into receiving those either, so I'm not speaking from direct personal experience here, but I'll give it a go.

I've seen various rational explanations for it, things like confronting fears (often in a situation where the "sub" ultimately is in control, and can safeword/etc. if they need to). I expect there's a lot of truth to the rational explanations, but I don't think they're the whole story.

If you tap gently on a piano key, you get a nice clear note - maybe at 440 Hz, if you picked middle C - along with a nice orderly set of harmonics at double, triple, quadruple, ... that frequency. If you tap a little harder, you get the same frequencies (but a bit louder). With a bit of calculus and high-school physics, and making some nice approximations like "restoring force is proportional to displacement", you can calculate those frequencies for yourself and show why they follow that nice orderly series. You can even predict the frequencies for a string you haven't played.

But if you bring your fist down on the keyboard really fucking hard, those rules break down. You push the system to the point where those nice linear approximations aren't entirely accurate, you introduce a bunch of new effects like the key hitting the... whatever the part of the keyboard is that sits under the keys. The shock of that impact transmits through the frame and sets a bunch of other strings vibrating softly at their own frequencies. Maybe if you hit it hard enough you even get the sound of parts breaking.

It's not a sound that you could ever have predicted just from experimenting between "play middle C softly" and "play middle C medium-hard", or by a high-school level analysis of the tension of a single string. You're pushing that system into a different space where it behaves very differently. For some people, that sound is going to be its own kind of music.

Similar stuff happens in other areas of audio. Within a certain range, an amplifier will take the signal you give it and reproduce that same signal only louder. But turn the volume up enough, and it starts to change not just the volume but the nature of the sound. Our first reaction to that is to try to build a better amp which can maintain fidelity at higher volume; our second reaction is to mutter "but actually that effect sounds kind of neat, I want to use it on my next song, let's make it happen on purpose!"

Brains are kind of like that. They're lumps of meat and chemicals and electrical impulses, which have evolved so that in normal circumstances they produce fairly sensible responses. Touch fire, feel bad, no touch fire. Og pick fleas off back, feel good, Og friend. But if we push them far enough via sensation or emotion, they start doing all sorts of weird things we couldn't have predicted through rationality.

Stick a needle into my skin, and I'll say "ow". Do it twice, and I'll say "ow" twice. Do it about a hundred times a second for half an hour on end, and I just might say "don't stop", because we more or less maxed out that section of my pain reception a while ago, and now we're into interesting territory where that intense sensation is spilling over into a bunch of other things that aren't just physical pain.

It's not hard for me to believe that somebody who was wired right could be doing the same kind of thing with humiliation, transmuting that into feelings that aren't purely negative, through a process that can't meaningfully be described in terms of rational thought processes.

 

[alohadave]

I stopped going to confession - well, I was very young, but I always hated it. Anyway, once you've been raised like that, you can disown it all you wish, but you are forever changed by it.

I understand. My parents aren't really religious, but it's impossible to avoid the influence that religion has on our culture.

I've been atheist for many years, and yet my worldview has been shaped by how religion shapes the culture I grew up in.

It's nearly impossible to divorce yourself from your culture.

Well, for certain religious people it's still a problem - they would likely say it is harmful. Note some of the listings under "thou shall not kill" and "thou shall not commit adultery."

It's a problem for them. I stopped worrying about how religious people react to things when they don't intersect with my life. All I can do is deal with myself and my reactions. My point was that from a personal level something is a problem for you if it causes problems in your life.

 

[RoperTrace]

I think it means you're not a real that specific type of sub.



I'm not into receiving those either, so I'm not speaking from direct personal experience here, but I'll give it a go.

I've seen various rational explanations for it, things like confronting fears (often in a situation where the "sub" ultimately is in control, and can safeword/etc. if they need to). I expect there's a lot of truth to the rational explanations, but I don't think they're the whole story.

If you tap gently on a piano key, you get a nice clear note - maybe at 440 Hz, if you picked middle C - along with a nice orderly set of harmonics at double, triple, quadruple, ... that frequency. If you tap a little harder, you get the same frequencies (but a bit louder). With a bit of calculus and high-school physics, and making some nice approximations like "restoring force is proportional to displacement", you can calculate those frequencies for yourself and show why they follow that nice orderly series. You can even predict the frequencies for a string you haven't played.

But if you bring your fist down on the keyboard really fucking hard, those rules break down. You push the system to the point where those nice linear approximations aren't entirely accurate, you introduce a bunch of new effects like the key hitting the... whatever the part of the keyboard is that sits under the keys. The shock of that impact transmits through the frame and sets a bunch of other strings vibrating softly at their own frequencies. Maybe if you hit it hard enough you even get the sound of parts breaking.

It's not a sound that you could ever have predicted just from experimenting between "play middle C softly" and "play middle C medium-hard", or by a high-school level analysis of the tension of a single string. You're pushing that system into a different space where it behaves very differently. For some people, that sound is going to be its own kind of music.

Similar stuff happens in other areas of audio. Within a certain range, an amplifier will take the signal you give it and reproduce that same signal only louder. But turn the volume up enough, and it starts to change not just the volume but the nature of the sound. Our first reaction to that is to try to build a better amp which can maintain fidelity at higher volume; our second reaction is to mutter "but actually that effect sounds kind of neat, I want to use it on my next song, let's make it happen on purpose!"

Brains are kind of like that. They're lumps of meat and chemicals and electrical impulses, which have evolved so that in normal circumstances they produce fairly sensible responses. Touch fire, feel bad, no touch fire. Og pick fleas off back, feel good, Og friend. But if we push them far enough via sensation or emotion, they start doing all sorts of weird things we couldn't have predicted through rationality.

Stick a needle into my skin, and I'll say "ow". Do it twice, and I'll say "ow" twice. Do it about a hundred times a second for half an hour on end, and I just might say "don't stop", because we more or less maxed out that section of my pain reception a while ago, and now we're into interesting territory where that intense sensation is spilling over into a bunch of other things that aren't just physical pain.

It's not hard for me to believe that somebody who was wired right could be doing the same kind of thing with humiliation, transmuting that into feelings that aren't purely negative, through a process that can't meaningfully be described in terms of rational thought processes.

I have to give you high marks for using high school physics, the tension of a piano string and 440hz into a discussion explaining cuckolding. I didn't even know that was possible.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I understand. My parents aren't really religious, but it's impossible to avoid the influence that religion has on our culture.

I've been atheist for many years, and yet my worldview has been shaped by how religion shapes the culture I grew up in.

It's nearly impossible to divorce yourself from your culture.


It's a problem for them. I stopped worrying about how religious people react to things when they don't intersect with my life. All I can do is deal with myself and my reactions. My point was that from a personal level something is a problem for you if it causes problems in your life.

And yet there is some part of me that goes - what happens when I die and it's exactly like they told me it would be like? (Actually, they - the priests and nuns - were vague about a lot of the details.) Hell sucked, that was for sure. You'll notice that everyone reads Dante's Inferno, but not so much the next two books about Purgatory and Heaven. Those lack the dramatic power of the first one.

"And they say there's a heaven for those who will wait, some say it's better, but I say it ain't . . . the sinners are much more fun."
.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have to give you high marks for using high school physics, the tension of a piano string and 440hz into a discussion explaining cuckolding. I didn't even know that was possible.

I aim to keep things educational.

(This kind of thing actually is a large part of how I understand people - not that it's perfect or complete, all analogies have their limits, but maths and physics are a useful framework for me in thinking about people. It's probably not for everybody.)

 

[Bramblethorn]

I understand. My parents aren't really religious, but it's impossible to avoid the influence that religion has on our culture.

I've been atheist for many years, and yet my worldview has been shaped by how religion shapes the culture I grew up in.

It's nearly impossible to divorce yourself from your culture.

One of my favourite jokes:

Back around the 1980s, an Australian goes on holiday to Northern Ireland, and as he's exploring Belfast a man in a balaclava stops him and points a gun to his head.

"Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?"

"Erm... I'm an atheist."

"That's all very well, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"

 

[Seadog777]

I don’t see how humiliation and degradation can be anything but harmful. Am I too narrow minded?

Absolutely not.
I've never gotten a "narrow minded" vibe from you.

 

[Seadog777]

understand. My parents aren't really religious, but it's impossible to avoid the influence that religion has on our culture.

I've been atheist for many years, and yet my worldview has been shaped by how religion shapes the culture I grew up in.

It's nearly impossible to divorce yourself from your culture.

Absolutely LOVE this.

I seriously struggle with religion.
I've seen devastation that is truly indescribable. I can't even do it justice when talking with my therapist.
Along with the personal tragedies in my personal life, I can't believe that a "just God" would allow the type of suffering that I've seen and experienced in my life.
I grew up with an incredibly religious mother and grandparents, so it was hard to separate that part of my life from my family.

 

[StrangeLife]

I'd say quantum mechanics.

Not sure exactly how, but that's what they always use in scifi stories to explain inexplicable stuff...

 

[gunhilltrain]

Cuck originally included impregnation. The world Cuck comes from Cuckoo, a bird that will lay its eggs in the next of another bird and the other bird will raise the cuckoo's young. The hatchling cuckoos are generally larger than other woodland birds and it will overpower the other chicks and get the most food. Historical cuckoldry included carrying another man's baby, the woman would deny sex to her husband and prefer her lover.

You can say there's no humiliation in cuckoldry but you can also say your pickup truck can fly. There's a huge difference between hotwife sex play and cuckoldry just as there is a difference between an F-150 and an F-111

I really should help Emily here, but first - I do like the F-86 and its role in the Korean War.

 

[alohadave]

And yet there is some part of me that goes - what happens when I die and it's exactly like they told me it would be like?

I've thought of that, but I figure that if they are right, then I'll deal with it when it happens.

Along with the personal tragedies in my personal life, I can't believe that a "just God" would allow the type of suffering that I've seen and experienced in my life.

That's a pretty big reason for me as well.

 

[NoTalentHack]

It’s only 8pm, but it’s been a long week.

You can’t buy happiness, but you can buy wine and that’s basically the same thing.

So, I’m not kink-shaming. Just confused. Can someone explain what anyone gets out of this cuck stuff?

OK, OK, I know I like being tied up and paddled, and maybe you don’t. But I can’t see what the cuck himself gets out of the deal.

What do I not understand?

I am seeking illumination.

Em

I wrote a long post on this the last time it came up as a topic:
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/the-appeal-of-being-cuckolded.1580481/post-96260961

And then thinking about it some more, I ended up writing a story called Kayfabe that’s about a bull helping a cuckold understand why he likes what he likes. Well, that’s part of it, anyways.

It’s not my kink, but once I looked at it through a BDSM lens (esp. degradation and humiliation subtypes), along with the understanding that in RL, it’s MOSTLY a type of play as opposed to a full-on lifestyle, in the same way that 99% of the people doing dom/sub shit don’t do it 24/7, it started to make more sense to me.

 

[gunhilltrain]

For some people, it may be difficult to understand how activities such as being bonded, flogged, and peed on can be seen as anything but degrading.

I can't find Emily's post that you responded to. Anyway, Emily the question you originally asked (think!) was why would people voluntarily submit to these things. I'm not sure that any of us here can truly answer that - illuminate it as you put it. As I said, it exists; it just is what it is. It reminds of that YouTube psychologist Frank Grande who tries to explain things like Columbine and other such events. He tries hard, but at the end of the video, I understand as little as I did at the beginning.

 

[Rustyoznail]

"Why on earth would anyone want XXXX done to them?"

Piss, scat, cuck, meat hooks through body parts... And why?



I'll leave now.

 

[gunhilltrain]

At their core, humans are irrational creatures, driven by complex emotions and impulses that are often difficult to predict or explain.

While contemplating the root causes of our behavior can be an engaging exercise, the reality is that the complexity of human psychology means that we are unlikely to ever achieve a full understanding

I guess what strikes me is that people's responses - violent ones - are often far out of proportion to whatever their grievances are. I was just looking at some of the Cruz trial - the Parkland school shooting - and the psychiatrist's interviews with him a couple of weeks after the incident. He doesn't look like somebody who killed seventeen people and is facing life in prison. It's like he's angry and yet his emotions are also turned off at the same time.

The thing is that these incidents are becoming more frequent since then.

 

[Dashabout]

M

My husband is like that too

So is mine, Bill is a true voyeur and loves watching me have sex, he will join after a bit of watching. I am 20 yrs younger than he is and sharing me is better than the "Blue Pill" for him. It's a win/win for us all.

 

[Filipinawife]

So is mine, Bill is a true voyeur and loves watching me have sex, he will join after a bit of watching. I am 20 yrs younger than he is and sharing me is better than the "Blue Pill" for him. It's a win/win for us all.

I am 18 years younger than David. He gets rock hard watching a guy fuck me

 

[Dashabout]

I am 18 years younger than David. He gets rock hard watching a guy fuck me

It works every time for Bill, from the first bit of flashing to cause some interest to the final ending and we are all well taken care of. He's slow to start but a strong finisher.

 

[Dashabout]

Hearing about or recalling some of our fun also works when it's just us two talking.

 

[Filipinawife]

Watching me dressed like a slut getting picked up in a bar

 

[Dashabout]

I am sure your David must be thrilled watching you. I know my Bill and I would love to be in the crowd watching too.

 

[RoperTrace]

I aim to keep things educational.

(This kind of thing actually is a large part of how I understand people - not that it's perfect or complete, all analogies have their limits, but maths and physics are a useful framework for me in thinking about people. It's probably not for everybody.)

As a former engineer, and amateur musician, I thought your analogy was very clever.

 

[Zenith77]

Why is this sexy? How is being humiliated sexy?

I can intellectually understand cuckolding, from the aspect of humiliation... because humiliation I understand, at least from some perspectives. I'll try and explain humiliation (though I can't help but think of the expression 'colour to a blind man') and perhaps that will give an insight into cuckolding. Personally, I like humiliation (giving, rather than receiving...) but cuckolding leaves me cold.

Anyway.

In my mind, humiliation is about breaking down the artificial walls of propriety that our individual nature/nurture backgrounds have landed us all with. It's the act of finding oneself being forced (definitively against one's will, to a greater or lesser extent) to perform or be perceived in a certain way, a way that is in direct opposition to whatever proper ideas of conformity we have developed for that particular scenario.

For example, being naked in front of the whole school - where propriety tells (most of) us it's usually better to be dressed.

Thus humiliation is inexorably tied to an aspect of [C]NC ([Consensual]-non-Consent. i.e., forced submission, blackmail, reluctance, some areas of taboo, etc. etc.). [C]NC is a trigger-y area for lots of folk, and if indeed humiliation is a bed-fellow, an aversion to [C]NC means an aversion - or, at least, an unwillingness or incapability to understand - to humiliation.

[]

Time for a little digression and some psych.

We all have expectations of what is normal/acceptable/proper/expected, but they vary from person to person, at least to some degree, and to a great degree in some cases. Let's call these, for the sake of argument, 'soft limits'.

Similarly, we have all developed defining beliefs of what is not acceptable - some of which we can intellectually allow others to transgress, so long as it doesn't directly apply to us, and some of which we can't, under any circumstances. Let's call these, for the sake of argument, 'hard limits'.

You can push against, bend, or even, ultimately, break a 'soft limit' and it's a malleable thing that may move over time, permanently shifting with experience, or may allow a little movement for a short period, before reasserting itself. 'Hard limits' are inflexible, and it takes a considerable amount of work - or a sudden, wholly-new perspective - for them to be moved even a small amount. Psychologically, we tend to break down and pull back well short of our 'hard limits' as we don't want to get anywhere near them.

IME folk tend not to make much effort to understand things under their specific 'hard limit' labels, and on the rare occasions where the willingness to understand is there, often the ability to do so is not. This is because understanding requires some degree of common ground, and by definition the areas of our 'hard limits' are areas we don't want to go into. It's tough to find common ground when the ground in question is one you're very busy staying well away from. The mind is a complex place, and our tendency to actively pull back from proximity to 'hard limits' tends to prevent us from being able to comprehend that which exists beyond that specific wall.

But I mentioned earlier that moving a 'hard limit' can sometimes be achieved through a wholly-new perspective, and one of the possible ways of doing this is to gain a new understanding of something associated with an aspect of whatever is sitting beyond your 'hard limit'.

Say your 'hard limit' is a metaphorical minefield, and your 'walls' are a ten-foot barbed-wire fence with 'Do not cross - Landmines' signage. There just ain't no way you're climbing that fence. But say you like puppies, and suddenly you see a puppy sniffing about in the minefield. One of three things now happens: a) you walk away from the fence, shoulders hunched against the inevitable explosion you just know is about to follow; b) you climb the fence and risk life and limb to save the puppy, or c) you watch in horror, doing nothing, and maybe the dog makes it and maybe it doesn't. Psychologically speaking, (a) is a pretty common reaction, and (b) or (c) have a chance of either reinforcing the hardness of that limit, or allowing an understanding of it to develop that, over time, leads to you installing a gate in the fence. And maybe even clearing away some of the nearer mines.

Humiliation is something we all have experience of, for better or for worse, and is therefore 'common ground'. Humiliation can therefore be a puppy in the minefield of [C]NC - assuming you have [C]NC as a soft or hard limit, and a desire to understand or address aspects of it. Which, granted, is a pretty big assumption, but hey, it's my post.

[]

To finish, humiliation is the result of someone traipsing all over your hard-earned sense of propriety, and thus - particularly in a sexual content - provoking a sense of debasement, which in turn leads to submission.

Even Wiki's definition of humiliation is getting a little racy:

Humiliation​

Description​

Humiliation is the abasement of pride, which creates mortification or leads to a state of being humbled or reduced to lowliness or submission. It is an emotion felt by a person whose social status, either by force or willingly, has just decreased. Wikipedia

So humiliation is debasement, mortification, leading to submission, within an aspect of [C]NC. Pretty hot by a lot of people's views, and incomprehensible to others.

Does that help?

Z.