California’s “bullet train” runs off the rails.

[Ingenue844]

Uhhh...

It would be closer to the truth that I recognized that the project was doomed and underfunded. They could not get the property to run the rail where it ended to go to do all of those wonderful things that you claim it would have. It was a project dreamed up of of whites, dreams, unicorns rainbows and skittles and I didn't like the waste money anymore than I approved of the bridge in Alaska, a REPUBLICAN boondoggle, for the most part.

So get off of your partisan high horse and step into the real world.


PS - I'm a Libertarian. I don't seek to dominate ANYONE.
Our slogan is, all we have to offer is less and more of it.
Our policies would not have dumped over $5 trillion is stimulus into the economy because most of us are of the Austrian School of Economics and understand that it was going to produce inflation. If California needed that rail so badly, we feel they simply should have raised taxes and fees and funded it.

You can’t call someone partisan who sits dead center, “Libertarian.” I usually get along with libertarians just fine unless I suspect they’re just closeted republicans. Being as classically liberal as I am.

Our slogan. Most of us. I feel a true Libertarian doesn’t use such conformist terms

 

[Chobham]

Why are so many cheering on the demise of a project? I get not liking government waste and overreach. But are you wanting it to fail because you don’t like those who suggested it?

You know the state is full of human beings. Those that have to work for a living but still want to provide their family with a better life than living one atop the other in the bigger cities. This rail would’ve provided a safer and faster commute from the Central Valley…an area known for conservative values, to the Bay Area where the jobs are. Why wouldn’t you want conditions to improve for other humans?

Don’t lose your humanity in your quest for political dominance

Not cheering failure, it IS a failure. It was doomed to failure before the first shovel full of dirt was turned.

Let's start with the fact that EVERY high speed rail project world wide is a financial money sink. They all literally fall into the category of "prestige projects."

 

[Ingenue844]

Not cheering failure, it IS a failure. It was doomed to failure before the first shovel full of dirt was turned.

Let's start with the fact that EVERY high speed rail project world wide is a financial money sink. They all literally fall into the category of "prestige projects."

Because there’s no value in prestige?

Having lived in poor rural cities and prestigious ones that have a higher tax base, educated workforce and a lot of beautiful parks and trails…it did push me from Taxation is Theft to believing that if the populace wants to fund beautiful public works, I won’t stand in the way. I appreciate that this can be accomplished at the local level without too many ruffled feathers.

One of my properties has tripled in value since the beginning of a double track project which will allow commuters quicker access to Chicago.

Not everything is numbers and bottom lines. And for those who don’t live there…shouting NIMBY is petty.

 

[Chobham]

Because there’s no value in prestige?

Having lived in poor rural cities and prestigious ones that have a higher tax base, educated workforce and a lot of beautiful parks and trails…it did push me from Taxation is Theft to believing that if the populace wants to fund beautiful public works, I won’t stand in the way. I appreciate that this can be accomplished at the local level without too many ruffled feathers.

One of my properties has tripled in value since the beginning of a double track project which will allow commuters quicker access to Chicago.

Not everything is numbers and bottom lines. And for those who don’t live there…shouting NIMBY is petty.

Prestige has value, but at what cost and to whom?

The project you're speaking of is a commuter project in a high population density area. It actually has a reasonable chance of breaking even, or at least not being an Albatross around the neck of the taxpayer.

The CA project is not a commuter project. Commuter projects are typified by relatively short runs with many stations. The more stations (stops), the longer the commute. These can be tolerated in an urban commuter environment, not in a long haul route. The projected time line for the CA project is 2 hours 40 minutes from LA to SF (or the other way). That's a 5 hour daily commute and you're still left getting to and from the stations. The projected fare (2015) was $86 one way.

 

[Ingenue844]

Prestige has value, but at what cost and to whom?

The project you're speaking of is a commuter project in a high population density area. It actually has a reasonable chance of breaking even, or at least not being an Albatross around the neck of the taxpayer.

The CA project is not a commuter project. Commuter projects are typified by relatively short runs with many stations. The more stations (stops), the longer the commute. These can be tolerated in an urban commuter environment, not in a long haul route. The projected time line for the CA project is 2 hours 40 minutes from LA to SF (or the other way). That's a 5 hour daily commute and you're still left getting to and from the stations. The projected fare (2015) was $86 one way.

I don’t care about LA to SF
I care about CV to SJ

You know…a commuter project

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I don’t care about LA to SF
I care about CV to SJ

You know…a commuter project

Yep. Westbound Highway 152 is crazy in the morning. Eastbound is crazy in late afternoon. Same with 580.

 

[Ingenue844]

Yep. Westbound Highway 152 is crazy in the morning. Eastbound is crazy in late afternoon. Same with 580.

Three people I grew up with died on that commute. One was a very close friend.

 

[Chernosoth]

Bullet trains are technocrat vanity projects. They suck money away from conventional rail and commuter rail, which the US needs and will eventually build, years or decades after the economy crashes on empty fuel tanks.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Three people I grew up with died on that commute. One was a very close friend.

Sorry to hear that. It’s a dangerous road for sure. They’ve made some improvements over the years but it’s still dangerous.

 

[LittleDixie]

Why are so many cheering on the demise of a project? I get not liking government waste and overreach. But are you wanting it to fail because you don’t like those who suggested it?

You know the state is full of human beings. Those that have to work for a living but still want to provide their family with a better life than living one atop the other in the bigger cities. This rail would’ve provided a safer and faster commute from the Central Valley…an area known for conservative values, to the Bay Area where the jobs are. Why wouldn’t you want conditions to improve for other humans?

Don’t lose your humanity in your quest for political dominance

It's not about wanting political dominance. It is about seeing yet another example of total government failure and staggering waste and pointing it out.

100 billion dollars for 500 miles. Let's put that in context. It would take 5,159,609 bills, lined up end to end to go from the start of the track to the end of it. If you made 5,159,609 stacks of $19,381, you'd be at 100 billion. Essentially, you could make a wall of one dollar bills almost 7 feet tall and 500 miles long and that would be the same amount of money as the rails costs. For 100 billion dollars, you could purchase 1,553,036 fully loaded long range brand new Tesla 3 cars.

 

[LukSkyFokker]

That's not context, moron.

 

[Ingenue844]

Essentially, you could make a wall of one dollar bills almost 7 feet tall and 500 miles long and that would be the same amount of money as the rails costs. For 100 billion dollars, you could purchase 1,553,036 fully loaded long range brand new Tesla 3 cars.

There’s no use for a wall of singles.
And buying that many Teslas defeats the purpose. Are you proposing the state should buy all commuters a car and if not, why bring it up?

There is a public need for infrastructure improvement. A commuter rail doesn’t currently exist in an area where a large part of the population drives daily to and fro.

I can agree that government typically mismanages budgets and projects. But I disagree that there isn’t a need or a market for at least a portion of this rail.

 

[LittleDixie]

There’s no use for a wall of singles.
And buying that many Teslas defeats the purpose. Are you proposing the state should buy all commuters a car and if not, why bring it up?

There is a public need for infrastructure improvement. A commuter rail doesn’t currently exist in an area where a large part of the population drives daily to and fro.

I can agree that government typically mismanages budgets and projects. But I disagree that there isn’t a need or a market for at least a portion of this rail.

I'm not suggesting that a wall of singles would have any utility, what I'm trying to point out is that every 6.14 inches of track would cost 19 thousand dollars.

Buying and giving away 1.5 million Teslas would have a greater impact on the ability to move people around than this train has.

There is a public need for infrastructure improvement. The government has failed at this. It has wasted billions of dollars on a project that has little chance of being completed this century. There is indeed a need for this kind of mass transit, but it would have been far better managed and constructed by private companies with a profit motive as opposed to a government pork project that is making corrupt contractors rich.

 

[JohnEBbad]

You can’t call someone partisan who sits dead center, “Libertarian.” I usually get along with libertarians just fine unless I suspect they’re just closeted republicans. Being as classically liberal as I am.

Our slogan. Most of us. I feel a true Libertarian doesn’t use such conformist terms

Your answer tells me that you are surrounded by like thinkers so that you "feel" you are dead center.

Here's a great synopsis of the cronyism that destroyed this project from the get-go:

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/10...igh-speed-rail-project-became-a-loser-n502284

 

[JohnEBbad]

Pull Quote:

The whole plan to connect two major cities, San Francisco and Los Angeles, in about 2 1/2 hours was replaced by the idea of running the system through every major town in the Central Valley. That resulted in “more delays, more complications over acquiring land, more environmental problems.” And as the project bogged down the decision was made to start construction in the Central Valley rather than in LA or SF. That means that by 2025 we might have an expensive bullet train that connects Bakersfield (pop. 380k) to Merced (pop.84k). Obviously if anyone had proposed a bullet train from Bakersfield to Merced it would never have received much support because such a project just doesn’t make any sense. But that’s what we’re ending up with.

 

[Chobham]

Your answer tells me that you are surrounded by like thinkers so that you "feel" you are dead center.

Here's a great synopsis of the cronyism that destroyed this project from the get-go:

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/10...igh-speed-rail-project-became-a-loser-n502284

Good article. Interestingly enough that is exactly how NASA ended up going to hell in a handbasket. Political dilution of assets.

 

[Chernosoth]

There is a public need for infrastructure improvement. A commuter rail doesn’t currently exist in an area where a large part of the population drives daily to and fro.

Temporarily. Climate change is one item on a long list of reasons why California is losing population and businesses. Long commutes anywhere will decrease as energy gets scarce. Electric cars and bullet trains will land on the same scrapheap of overpriced and impractical tech.

 

[JohnEBbad]

Good article. Interestingly enough that is exactly how NASA ended up going to hell in a handbasket. Political dilution of assets.

Not to mention why, in tough economic times, with so many desperate people, our military is unable to meet its recruiting goals.

Maybe part of the problem is all of the free education money.

I mean, besides the whole woke thing...

 

[Chobham]

Not to mention why, in tough economic times, with so many desperate people, our military is unable to meet its recruiting goals.

Maybe part of the problem is all of the free education money.

I mean, besides the whole woke thing...

It all goes right back to de Tocqueville.

 

[Ingenue844]

There is indeed a need for this kind of mass transit, but it would have been far better managed and constructed by private companies with a profit motive as opposed to a government pork project that is making corrupt contractors rich.

I can agree with this. And it could happen too if government got out of the way of private industry which is not likely in Cal. So people suffer

 

[JohnEBbad]

It all goes right back to de Tocqueville.

Yes. He was as prescient as Paul Maud'Dib...

 

[Ingenue844]

Your answer tells me that you are surrounded by like thinkers so that you "feel" you are dead center.

I’m not. I’m in Chicagoland being called a Fascist. And on this thread “Libertarians” hinting at a bleeding heart status.

I admit, I’m invested emotionally in this particular situation.

What does my anger at the state for shutting off water to my home area do for my Label? Move me back to the Fascist, doesn’t care about the environment side?

You’re the one with blinders on. Anyone who points out that they view an idea differently, and you label them to shut down discussion.

 

[JohnEBbad]

Darling, you accused me first of being against this project because I didn't like the people involved and your inability to admit that this was, is, and will continue to be a political boondoggle really suggest and non-centrist bias. I didn't call you anything.

Water problems are another Californian self-inflicted wound by a one-party state more beholden to the (Red) Green movement than they are to common sense and resource management.

In the same vein, the (Red) Greens have made every effort to prevent proper forest management and increase the intensity, duration and frequency of fires and instead of looking in the mirror, like a parrot (and this covers the water and energy shortages too) their continual lament is (and nefarious enemy of all things California) GlowBall Warning! GlowBall Warning! GlowBall Warning and the evil corporations and Republicans who put profits before people; those Nazis are murderers! Pollution == profits! Squawk! Squawk!

 

[LukSkyFokker]

Water problems are another Californian self-inflicted wound

Wrong. Very fucking wrong, dipshit.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Temporarily. Climate change is one item on a long list of reasons why California is losing population and businesses. Long commutes anywhere will decrease as energy gets scarce. Electric cars and bullet trains will land on the same scrapheap of overpriced and impractical tech.

People are not leaving CA because of the climate. The weather is fantastic. Yes, there are droughts and wildfires, but that’s not why people leave. They’re leaving because of ridiculous marginal tax rates, increasingly overcrowded metro areas, crime, filthy homeless encampments scattered throughout cities, crappy schools, high cost of living (housing, gas, power, water, services and entertainment) terrible roads and highways, all the product of decades for poor governance.