Bush is going after your retirement

[REDWAVE]

Well, Bush got the total (or near total) control of Congress he wanted, by hook or crook, in the last election, and now it's hunting season. The new Congress convenes Jan. 7, with corrupt scumbag and total Bush lackey Bill Frist, who has made millions from Medicare fraud, in control of the Senate, replacing Tom Daschle (whom the right-wingers tried to assassinate with anthrax from Fort Detrick-- remember that?). Not only are the Republicans launching a frontal assault on women's rights, they're also going after the retirements of older workers. Bush is proposing sweeping changes in Medicare, changes which will "reduce costs" and "introduce competition." Translation: it will slash benefits for retirees, and enable health care and insurance companies to gouge out enormous new profits. Also, major changes in pension rules will greatly reduce pension income for millions of older Americans, and enable big business to save billions of dollars, which will then be "freed up" for more important things like yachts, mansions, and Rolls Royces for the rich. This at a time when most Americans have very little retirement security to begin with! In short, poverty and misery among retired Americans will be vastly increased, so that giant corporations can make more money.

Isn't capitalism grand?

 

[RawHumor]

Ah, yes, those nameless faceless corporations - giant machines that run themselves and don't actually employ any real people.

Oh, and YES, Capitalism IS grand.

Oh, and check out my Compassionate Conservative thread. I paid you a compliment or two.

 

[zipman]

Isn't capitalism grand?

It is indeed. Glad you see the light!


Was this a New Year's Eve revelation?

 

[busybody..]

Capitilism is wonderful

It helped me to make $40 million in 2000.....and to help me pay taxes so that folks like you.....

Can be on WELFARE and SHIT on the country.....

Wish I could direct my taxes to 100% defense and 0% to fee loaders.

 

[REDWAVE]

I see your word is worthless

I see you're still posting, busybody, despite your promise to "abide by the will of the board" if a majority voted against you in your poll.

Hasta la vista, babay . . . Don't let the door hit you on your ass . . .

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Capitilism is wonderful

It helped me to make $40 million in 2000.....and to help me pay taxes so that folks like you.....

What's the sense in telling big fat porkies like that?

Most of your posts are worthless anyway but to keep lying like you do makes them even more ludricous...

And to think I believed you when you said MUSLIMS were BABY killers...



ppman

 

[busybody..]

Re: I see your word is worthless

I see you're still posting, busybody, despite your promise to "abide by the will of the board" if a majority voted against you in your poll.

Hasta la vista, babay . . . Don't let the door hit you on your ass . . .

I see you missed the recount, you dumb fuck!

 

[ithaqua]

Well, Bush got the total (or near total) control of Congress he wanted, by hook or crook, in the last election, and now it's hunting season. The new Congress convenes Jan. 7, with corrupt scumbag and total Bush lackey Bill Frist, who has made millions from Medicare fraud, in control of the Senate, replacing Tom Daschle (whom the right-wingers tried to assassinate with anthrax from Fort Detrick-- remember that?). Not only are the Republicans launching a frontal assault on women's rights, they're also going after the retirements of older workers. Bush is proposing sweeping changes in Medicare, changes which will "reduce costs" and "introduce competition." Translation: it will slash benefits for retirees, and enable health care and insurance companies will gouge out enormous new profits. Also, major changes in pension rules will greatly reduce pension income for millions of older Americans, and enable big business to save billions of dollars, which will then be "freed up" for more important things like yachts, mansions, and Rolls Royces for the rich. This at a time when most Americans have very little retirement security to begin with! In short, poverty and misery among retired Americans will be vastly increased, so that giant corporations can make more money.

Isn't capitalism grand?

Capitalism is grand,
Government is quite another thing.

I feel strongly that the US Government has demonstrated to the people of this great country that they are incapable of responsibly handling money, let alone running a retirement program.

Social Security is one freakishly large example of government incompetence.

I would advocate doing away with the entire system, paying out what they have in the fund now, and not collecting any more. The private retirement plans I have can at the very least be left to my beneficiaries, and they have a much higher return on investment.

So I would support the president 100% in dismantling social security.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: Re: Bush is going after your retirement

Capitalism is grand,
Government is quite another thing.

I feel strongly that the US Government has demonstrated to the people of this great country that they are incapable of responsibly handling money, let alone running a retirement program.

Social Security is one freakishly large example of government incompetence.

I would advocate doing away with the entire system, paying out what they have in the fund now, and not collecting any more. The private retirement plans I have can at the very least be left to my beneficiaries, and they have a much higher return on investment.

So I would support the president 100% in dismantling social security.

That's not the plan though. The plan is to let people redirect a small % (like 2% of the total 15+ that they take out) into a different type of account that would be theirs to "manage" if they so chose. Of course, they don't have to take advantage of it, they can just leave the money where it is. It's actually a very small difference.

The biggest issue is that people would have the option of controlling their money instead of the US Government having complete control over it.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Red, if the yachting industry picked up, you might be able to get a job at one of the manufacturers.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

The problem with social security is that people live too long.

The basis for the American social security system rests in Imperial Germany in approximately 1880-1885. The Chancellor at the time, Otto von Bismarck needed to (REWAVE will love this) shut up the masses clamoring for socialist reforms.

Bismarck figured that the best way to do this was to promise retirement benefits to the German worker. He set the retirement age at 65 because most of the people who would be entitled to draw retirement would be dead by that time (97%). It tended to keep the costs down.

The Social Security System, when first set up, adopted the mandatory retirement age of 65 using a kind of "lets not reinvent the wheel" philosophy. Unfortunately, at least for the actuarials, the equivalent retirement age today would be 105 in order for the system to work. Treating the funds raised as General rather than special didn't exactly help either.

Revamping it is a bitch because the interest groups in the Social Security system are so entrenched that they all direct thier efforts towards protecting thier interests rather than to benefit the group as a whole.

Chucking it and restarting may not be such a bad idea.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

The problem with social security is that people live too long.

The basis for the American social security system rests in Imperial Germany in approximately 1880-1885. The Chancellor at the time, Otto von Bismarck needed to (REWAVE will love this) shut up the masses clamoring for socialist reforms.

Bismarck figured that the best way to do this was to promise retirement benefits to the German worker. He set the retirement age at 65 because most of the people who would be entitled to draw retirement would be dead by that time (97%). It tended to keep the costs down.

The Social Security System, when first set up, adopted the mandatory retirement age of 65 using a kind of "lets not reinvent the wheel" philosophy. Unfortunately, at least for the actuarials, the equivalent retirement age today would be 105 in order for the system to work. Treating the funds raised as General rather than special didn't exactly help either.

Revamping it is a bitch because the interest groups in the Social Security system are so entrenched that they all direct thier efforts towards protecting thier interests rather than to benefit the group as a whole.

Chucking it and restarting may not be such a bad idea.

I agree. But now the "special interests" are all those who have paid in for years or are getting benefits (that they counted on as part of their "retirement" calculation). It really sucks because I won't get out of SSI the amount that I've put in. (as opposed to many who are now getting benefits who put in very little and are getting a huge return).

 

[ithaqua]

Chuck it YES!

Why on earth would we want to restart this little social experiement

 

[ithaqua]

Who counts on Social Security for Retirement.

OK, lets look at the harsh reality.

Social Security has been predicted to be in trouble for over a decade now. We all know that it won't be there when we need it, and lets face it, if you have gone to the trouble of providing for yourself anyway with a 401K, or pension, then you are the first one they are going to screw out of benefits.

Bottom line, I have friends in their late 50's who don't expect to see a dime from Social Security even though they paid in all their lives.

That could leave a person rather bitter from a German socialist point of view.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: Who counts on Social Security for Retirement.

OK, lets look at the harsh reality.

Social Security has been predicted to be in trouble for over a decade now. We all know that it won't be there when we need it, and lets face it, if you have gone to the trouble of providing for yourself anyway with a 401K, or pension, then you are the first one they are going to screw out of benefits.

Bottom line, I have friends in their late 50's who don't expect to see a dime from Social Security even though they paid in all their lives.

That could leave a person rather bitter from a German socialist point of view.

Lots of people are depending on it...though there's really nothing there. It's pay as you go and the "kitty" is full of IOU's and the demographics are turning in such a way that it's going to be a hopeless situation in 10-15 years.

 

[Unclebill]

Re: Re: Bush is going after your retirement

Capitalism is grand,
Government is quite another thing .... Social Security is one freakishly large example of government incompetence.

I would advocate doing away with the entire system, paying out what they have in the fund now, and not collecting any more. The private retirement plans I have can at the very least be left to my beneficiaries, and they have a much higher return on investment.

So I would support the president 100% in dismantling social security.

Here's a little exercise that illustrates just how good the Social Security system really is and what a terrific value and retirement system it is.

http://www.geocities.com/john_galt76/SocialSecurity.html

But understand, there is NO TRUST FUND. There is no money to be returned. What is collected today in payrol withholding is paid out to current beneficiaries or put into the government's general fund and supplements the Federal budget.

Getting rid of this system is one of the best things GWB could do if he truly wants to benefit Americans at large. But I really seriously doubt that any such thing will happen; too many politicians, not enough leaders.

 

[mufdvr5]

I think you need to study a little more before coming to bogus conclusions.

 

[REDWAVE]

Bismark-- the first modern statesman

Ah yes, old Otto. First he tried repressing the SPD (Social Democratic Party), the world's first mass socialist party, with the Anti-Socialist Laws. When that didn't work, the "Iron Chancellor" was realistic enough to realize he'd at least have to strike a deal with the SPD. He bought them off with his social welfare legislation. They in turn supported German militarism, and by 1914 the SPD (originally a revolutionary socialist party) had degenerated so far its deputies in the Reichstag voted for war credits, endorsing the imperialist mass slaughter of World War One. That in turn prompted Rosa Luxemburg to proclaim German Social Democracy a "stinking corpse," and leave to form her own party. And if you know your history at all, you know what they did to her, and to Karl Liebknecht.

Bismark was able to buy off the German masses because capitalism then was relatively dynamic, and could afford to throw a few sops to the workers, enough to keep them from rebelling. However, today, in its decrepit, decaying condition, the capitalist system is devouring itself in the unrelenting drive to counteract the falling rate of profit and continue to squeeze out huge profits for the masters. Thus, Bush is pushing for war abroad at the same time as he is savagely busting unions and attacking the wages and living conditions of the working class. It's not that he personally is stupid, as some people seem to think. It's that he is driven by the dictates of the capitalist system, which is in serious crisis.

This in turn creates the potential for worldwide socialist revolution.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

I think you need to study a little more before coming to bogus conclusions.

Who are you commenting to?

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Where is that happening Red? I'm perplexed.

 

[REDWAVE]

Poor baby

Yes, I know you're perplexed, Roses. It must be tough for you, having a nineteenth century laissez faire mindset while living in the twenty first century. There's a lot of protests going on here already, as you'd know if you checked the IMC (Independent Media Center) network, and there will be many more, and much bigger ones, if (as seems almost certain) Bush goes ahead and attacks Iraq. But the part of the world to really watch right now is South America, which is in enormous turmoil and ferment. Argentina has been in social, economic, and political crisis for over a year now. Brazil just elected the leftist Lula (Workers Party) as president. Lula, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and Fidel Castro (and his beard too!) are forming the "axis of good" to counteract the evil Bush.

 

[REDWAVE]

The myth of a Social Security crisis

This is another myth which has been invented by the conservative greedheads as an excuse to loot Social Security by "privatizing" it. The truth is the Social Security system is NOT in financial crisis. To the extent it's in any financial trouble at all, that can be fixed by a modest increase in taxes on the rich. O, but God forbid they should have to contribute to the general welfare-- why, that would be downright immoral and unconstitutional! Right, Unclebill? Another problem with Social Security is the regressive nature of Social Security taxes, on which there is an absolute cap. The result is that the poor and the working class pay too much, and the rich pay far too little.

But what else is new? As the old song says, "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!"

Until the poor wise up, at least.

 

[Gil_Favor]

maybe we need a system modeled after those fine people in North Korea.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Re: Poor baby

Yes, I know you're perplexed, Roses. It must be tough for you, having a nineteenth century laissez faire mindset while living in the twenty first century. There's a lot of protests going on here already, as you'd know if you checked the IMC (Independent Media Center) network, and there will be many more, and much bigger ones, if (as seems almost certain) Bush goes ahead and attacks Iraq. But the part of the world to really watch right now is South America, which is in enormous turmoil and ferment. Argentina has been in social, economic, and political crisis for over a year now. Brazil just elected the leftist Lula (Workers Party) as president. Lula, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and Fidel Castro (and his beard too!) are forming the "axis of good" to counteract the evil Bush.

Red, I refrain from personal insults.

You know that I read widely.

There are very few protests going on here now. There will always be protests, its one of the means for people to make their views known, but there are very few going on now in relative terms.

Yes, South America is a hotspot. I'll be curious to watch what Lula does. His first major point was "You can't harvest the fruit before you plant the fruit trees", which indicates that he has a little sense. Time will tell whether he has a lot of sense or not. I hope that he can route out some of the graft. I wish him well. I hope he doesn't fall into the trap that many other socialist/communists have fallen into (that their economic remedies are disasterous).

 

[REDWAVE]

IMF remedies are disastrous

I wasn't trying to insult you, Roses, but you do strike me as rather quaint and anachronistic, almost Victorian even. Anyway, it's not socialist economic policies which are disastrous. During the Great Depression of the 1930's, the collectivized economy of the Soviet Union grew rapidly, while the capitalist nations' economies were all in the doldrums-- just as they are today. Argentina and Brazil both followed the dictates of the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and World Bank to the letter, and the result was the increased impoverishment of their people. Socialism is vastly superior to capitalism as an economic system. However, when it was tried in the Soviet Union, it was sabotaged by implacable and unrelenting economic warfare (and at times real shooting war) by the capitalist nations, primarily the good ole U.S.A.