Bottoming from the top

[Red Menace]

Is there such a thing? What would it look like?

Would that be anything like those guys (I don't know that I've ever seen a girl do that, but then my experience there is limited) that say they're all Domly but fawn over you proclaiming the love in their hearts and lust in their loins, promising you the moon if you'll just let them spank you?

 

[~Dream~]

my guess would be that

bottoming from the top would be something similar to that Red..
I think that a Dom assuming the role of a sub would mean He's giving up the control tho so that would be hard of me to conceive of this since to most Dom's/'mes it seems to be the A.numero uno most importante thing in their lives!! lol A Dom wanting to serve? hehe lmao..that WOULD be a sight to see.. "as you wish mistress' lol

 

[Michael42]

seems like "bottoming from the top"may be something that happens when a top withholds or represses a desire to be dominated-a switch yet to come out

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Is there such a thing? What would it look like?

Would that be anything like those guys (I don't know that I've ever seen a girl do that, but then my experience there is limited) that say they're all Domly but fawn over you proclaiming the love in their hearts and lust in their loins, promising you the moon if you'll just let them spank you?

to me, bottoming from the Top is allowing Your submissive to dictate to You EXACTLY what kind of play scene he/she wants, and You spend hours and hours delivering it PERFECTLY while he/she just lays there in subspace having a wonderful dreamy "passive" time!!

SYMPTOMS: at the end of a scene You are leaning against a wall in Your home all sore and sweaty, smoking a cigarette, while he/she lays there with a smile on their face feeling sooooo refreshed and happy!

PROGNOSIS: not very good, especially when you realize who is REALLY in control here!

AND, if You are happy with that dynamic, i hereby (non-judgementally) label You a "Service Top"!!

 

[SexyChele]

"Topping from the bottom" simply means the direction of control is coming from the sub and not the Dom. This can be as blatant as luvsub's example, or it might take a more subtle tone. Such as, if a Dom wants a sub to do something, and he/she doesn't want to follow the directive. They might walk around pouting as a way of showing their "displeasure". If the Dom gives in and states that the sub doesn't have to do the task, then the sub has just "topped from the bottom".

Some subs will do things like this to "test" a Dom's limits. They expect to be "corrected", and many times if a Dom doesn't the sub is disappointed. Other times, you have a submissive who really isn't into the whole scene and wishes to have more control than the Dom is willing for her to have. (if that made any sense!)

 

[Red Menace]

lol dream... that would be something to see. But I've seen a lot of sef-described "Doms" do just that. Granted, I'm judging on just a few minutes of talking with them on IM's, but an awful lot of them seem to not quite posses the controlled, confident aura I want. *Sigh* Or maybe I'm just really, really nit-picky...

Sexy Chele - Makes perfect sense. But I was wondering what the reverse would look like. If it even exists. Or maybe it is just pretty much the same thing... Just some late night ponderings...

 

[SexyChele]

lol dream... that would be something to see. But I've seen a lot of sef-described "Doms" do just that. Granted, I'm judging on just a few minutes of talking with them on IM's, but an awful lot of them seem to not quite posses the controlled, confident aura I want. *Sigh* Or maybe I'm just really, really nit-picky...

Actually, my first Dom, at times, used to serve/wait on me. Normally, it was when I was had the flu or a really bad cold and could barely crawl out of bed! But he was a fantastic cook, and more than once would take off from work at lunch to fix me some soup and just keep me company.

He also used to give the most delicious bubble baths. *sigh* Of course, I just had to submit to them!

Originally posted by Red Menace

Sexy Chele - Makes perfect sense. But I was wondering what the reverse would look like. If it even exists. Or maybe it is just pretty much the same thing... Just some late night ponderings...

You mean "bottoming from the top"? Yes, definitely it exists. It might be a Dom who always wants his sub to intiate sexual encounters. It might be a situation where the Dom is using his "control" (used loosely) to get the sub to take more control.

Now, this is not to be confused with the idea that there are Dominants who, every so often, will give their subs a directive that might appear to be more controlling. For example: most people make the assumption that if a woman prefers sex on top then she is not being submissive. (No, I do no prescribe to this train of thought, just for the record) However, for me, personally, I do not find this position to be comfortable, and it has to do with the fact that I have more control over the situation. My first Dom discovered this rather quickly, and at times would direct me to be on top during sex. It was pushing a limit for me, it was not "bottoming from the top".

There. Clear as mud?

 

[Red Menace]

Now, this is not to be confused with the idea that there are Dominants who, every so often, will give their subs a directive that might appear to be more controlling. For example: most people make the assumption that if a woman prefers sex on top then she is not being submissive. (No, I do no prescribe to this train of thought, just for the record) However, for me, personally, I do not find this position to be comfortable, and it has to do with the fact that I have more control over the situation. My first Dom discovered this rather quickly, and at times would direct me to be on top during sex. It was pushing a limit for me, it was not "bottoming from the top".

There. Clear as mud?

*Rolls around in the mud*

Mmmm.... sex on top. I love being on top. Sitting up on a couch or something, hands bound behind my back. Leaves his hands free for a little nipple torture while I ride, not to mention the strategic placing of breasts right in his face. Um... for his pleasure of course. With him firmly in control....

 

[Richard49]

How does a sub realte her concerns, new limits etc.
without topping from the bottom?

 

[Red Menace]

How does a sub realte her concerns, new limits etc.
without topping from the bottom?

I'm currently negotiating limits, concerns, fears and desires with a Dom. We're on equal footing for all conversations related to scene negotiation but once the session starts, he's in control.

Now if we could just get our schedules to mesh so we could actually get around to the scene part...

But again, I'm not talking about topping from the bottom. I've heard that phrase thrown around so much, it started me thinking about the reverse... Bottoming from the top.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

How does a sub realte her concerns, new limits etc.
without topping from the bottom?

- topping is controlling

- relating concerns and discussing limits with the Dominant is informing and discussing which is every submissive's OBLIGATION, but in no way is it in and of itself decision making, controlling, OR topping from the bottom...........how else is a submissive going to give the Dominant the necessary information with which to make the proper decision for both Him or Her and the submissive?

 

[WriterDom]

lol dream... that would be something to see. But I've seen a lot of sef-described "Doms" do just that. Granted, I'm judging on just a few minutes of talking with them on IM's, but an awful lot of them seem to not quite posses the controlled, confident aura I want. *Sigh* Or maybe I'm just really, really nit-picky...

How can you judge anyone from a few minutes of IMs? It's almost like your are setting yourself up for a smooth IMer who knows the right buttons to push.

 

[Red Menace]

I like having my buttons pushed

How can you judge anyone from a few minutes of IMs? It's almost like your are setting yourself up for a smooth IMer who knows the right buttons to push.

I probably can't. But the guy who wrote with an obnoxiously large purple font was definitely out just on general principle. And the one who immeadiately told me he'd be willing to move from New England to LA seemed a little suspicious. The guy who wanted to drive 2 hours at the drop of a hat to bring me food because I mentioned I was hungry was a bit over-eager.

Other than that.... well, I don't know. But I did get brave and let someone call me tonight and that went really well. He didn't even ask to meet me. Just said he'd call later when he got a break from work. I'm just more comfortable when someone isn't straining at the leash (so to speak) to jump into bed just because we share a few kinks. There's a lot more to a relationship than just sex. (Or so I've heard. )

 

[artful]

Re: I like having my buttons pushed

I'm just more comfortable when someone isn't straining at the leash (so to speak) to jump into bed just because we share a few kinks. There's a lot more to a relationship than just sex. (Or so I've heard. )

Personally,...I think you have the right idea. It takes a lot of work to ensure you are not being manipulated, and this requires TIME and alertness.
If a guy can't "push-your-buttons", why waste time on him?

(JMHO),...but it's mine,...and I own it.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Is there such a thing? What would it look like?

Would that be anything like those guys (I don't know that I've ever seen a girl do that, but then my experience there is limited) that say they're all Domly but fawn over you proclaiming the love in their hearts and lust in their loins, promising you the moon if you'll just let them spank you?

bottoming from the Top is often rampant in new Dominants that have just discovered the WORD *BDSM* and have decided out of the gate that they ARE a Dom/me..Master...Mistress!

They want the relationship so badly that they don't understand the submissive is not just looking for someone kinky but also someone strong and firm emotionally.

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

bottoming from the Top is often rampant in new Dominants that have just discovered the WORD *BDSM* and have decided out of the gate that they ARE a Dom/me..Master...Mistress!

They want the relationship so badly that they don't understand the submissive is not just looking for someone kinky but also someone strong and firm emotionally.

hhmmm....that just brought something to mind, Mistress Shadowsdream......

it is conceivable to me, in Your above example, that such a Mistress may find it difficult to stay "on Top" all of the time.......in fact, She may decide to experiment and bottom once in awhile with Her newly found playtoy

so.....occassionally, when it strikes Her fancy, She decides to empower him to dominate Her.....he goes along with it, not because he has a dominant bone in his body, but because he wants to please Her.....and they role-play it out............

in my opinion, that scenario would qualify as bottoming from the Top, altho it is "just a role-play" and thus She really has NOT compromised Her Dominant persona to Her submissive in any REAL way in that she has maintained Her control over him throughout since She could pull the plug on the roleplay at any point in time......

i realize that the above DOES make a mockery of the traditional D/s power exchange dynamic, and could prove disastrous to such a relationship if played out too often.............

therefore, in the context of S/m such an activity/dynamic could be viewed as acceptable and is probably commonplace, since pure S/m without the power exchange is done primarily for the physical sensation and not for the "meaning" behind the action..........

the problem, then, lies in its continued application in a D/s relationship :

WARNING TO ALL DOMINANTS: excessive use of "bottoming from the TOP" activities could be hazardous to your D/s health...... Please consult your inner voice before prolonged use.......

(sorry...dun have a skull or X-bones for da warning)

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

hhmmm....that just brought something to mind, Mistress Shadowsdream......

it is conceivable to me, in Your above example, that such a Mistress may find it difficult to stay "on Top" all of the time.......in fact, She may decide to experiment and bottom once in awhile with Her newly found playtoy

so.....occassionally, when it strikes Her fancy, She decides to empower him to dominate Her.....he goes along with it, not because he has a dominant bone in his body, but because he wants to please Her.....and they role-play it out............

in my opinion, that scenario would qualify as bottoming from the Top, altho it is "just a role-play" and thus She really has NOT compromised Her Dominant persona to Her submissive in any REAL way in that she has maintained Her control over him throughout since She could pull the plug on the roleplay at any point in time......

i realize that the above DOES make a mockery of the traditional D/s power exchange dynamic, and could prove disastrous to such a relationship if played out too often.............

therefore, in the context of S/m such an activity/dynamic could be viewed as acceptable and is probably commonplace, since pure S/m without the power exchange is done primarily for the physical sensation and not for the "meaning" behind the action..........

the problem, then, lies in its continued application in a D/s relationship :

WARNING TO ALL DOMINANTS: excessive use of "bottoming from the TOP" activities could be hazardous to your D/s health...... Please consult your inner voice before prolonged use.......

(sorry...dun have a skull or X-bones for da warning)

(it is conceivable to me, in Your above example, that such a Mistress may find it difficult to stay "on Top" all of the time.......in fact, She may decide to experiment and bottom once in awhile with Her newly found playtoy)

Now here in lies the problem...one simple word...*difficult* I can't conceive for Myself a moment that is *difficult* to remain on top...ever...so for Me experimentation shows a lack of certainty in Her desire to be Dominant consistently or a lack of belief in Herself.

Now...if this Dominant knows that She PREFERS to submit sometimes as well..honestly without couching it as a PRETEND Domination to have Her sub take control under Her direction, then She will also admit to being a switch. That is honesty..and fairness to the sub...IF the sub enjoys that side of Her the sub has the best of both worlds..if not the sub can go back to looking for the Domination originally sought.

Have I confused the issue?

 

[luvsubbbbb]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

(it is conceivable to me, in Your above example, that such a Mistress may find it difficult to stay "on Top" all of the time.......in fact, She may decide to experiment and bottom once in awhile with Her newly found playtoy)

Now here in lies the problem...one simple word...*difficult* I can't conceive for Myself a moment that is *difficult* to remain on top...ever...so for Me experimentation shows a lack of certainty in Her desire to be Dominant consistently or a lack of belief in Herself.

Now...if this Dominant knows that She PREFERS to submit sometimes as well..honestly without couching it as a PRETEND Domination to have Her sub take control under Her direction, then She will also admit to being a switch. That is honesty..and fairness to the sub...IF the sub enjoys that side of Her the sub has the best of both worlds..if not the sub can go back to looking for the Domination originally sought.

Have I confused the issue?

"Have I confused the issue?"

not really, Mistress Shadowsdream........

i purposely used the words "may have difficulty" to lend some realism to the example.......

from my experience it is rare that a new Dominant, while She is just BEGINNING to learn what the BDSM lifestyle is all about, is 100% sure of Herself in Her chosen role without some experimentation "on the other side", if only from the standpoint of seeing how it feels to submit and to process Her feelings after having done so.........

for someone new, the difficulty can arise at being "on" all the time........

anyways....i just used my example to find another situation which fit the "bottoming from the Top" label.....

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

"Have I confused the issue?"

not really, Mistress Shadowsdream........

i purposely used the words "may have difficulty" to lend some realism to the example.......

from my experience it is rare that a new Dominant, while She is just BEGINNING to learn what the BDSM lifestyle is all about, is 100% sure of Herself in Her chosen role without some experimentation "on the other side", if only from the standpoint of seeing how it feels to submit and to process Her feelings after having done so.........

for someone new, the difficulty can arise at being "on" all the time........

anyways....i just used my example to find another situation which fit the "bottoming from the Top" label.....

and I have seen the other side of rare...thank goodness the world has all the possibilities to embrace.

 

[Red Menace]

Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

bottoming from the Top is often rampant in new Dominants that have just discovered the WORD *BDSM* and have decided out of the gate that they ARE a Dom/me..Master...Mistress!

They want the relationship so badly that they don't understand the submissive is not just looking for someone kinky but also someone strong and firm emotionally.

Thank you, Shadowsdream, for confirming this for me. Yes, that is exactly the sense that I get from some Doms; that even though they say they've had years of experience either have not developed the mental/ emotional component I'm looking for or they're lying. Hmmm... imagine that... lying on-line to lure in prospective subs....

Heehee... thanks luvsubbbbb for the warning. Skull and crossbones duly noted.

 

[MsWorthy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bottoming from the top

(it is conceivable to me, in Your above example, that such a Mistress may find it difficult to stay "on Top" all of the time.......in fact, She may decide to experiment and bottom once in awhile with Her newly found playtoy)

Now here in lies the problem...one simple word...*difficult* I can't conceive for Myself a moment that is *difficult* to remain on top...ever...so for Me experimentation shows a lack of certainty in Her desire to be Dominant consistently or a lack of belief in Herself.

SD, do you mean to say that because you can't conceive of a moment of difficulty - ever - in remaining on top that all other dom/mes will feel this way as well - or they aren't dom/mes? Surely I have misunderstood something or am reading this incorrectly.

I am certain you realize that you are quite far to the left (or right, depending on your pov ~smiles~) on the continuum of bdsm styles. The vast majority of bdsmers are not even in bdsm lifestyles (intead, bdsm is their playstyle), much less 24/7, even fewer are into 24/7 TPE. So, I think it quite likely that many will find a need for some downtime from making all of the decisions/controlling.

Now...if this Dominant knows that She PREFERS to submit sometimes as well..honestly without couching it as a PRETEND Domination to have Her sub take control under Her direction, then She will also admit to being a switch. That is honesty..and fairness to the sub...IF the sub enjoys that side of Her the sub has the best of both worlds..if not the sub can go back to looking for the Domination originally sought.

Have I confused the issue?

I don't think submitting is the same as being a "do Me", pillow princess. In my opinion, submitting is about allowing whatever happens to happen (within limits discussed), whereas a pp has laid out what she/he wants, when/where she wants it done, and usually how hard/fast/soft/slow she/he wants it done. So, I don't think this has to do with switching (if by switching you mean exchanging who has the power in the relationship). A dominant can be a pp or have a *do Me* attitude in the bedroom and still be a dom/me. (I understand that the majority, here, prefer it another way, but that does not invalidate that style. Whoever has the power and control is the dom/me. It isn't determined by what goes on in the bedroom.)

I wonder whether we are talking about D/S or S/M here, because:

masochist does not equal submissive

and

sadist does not equal dominant, unless we are speaking strictly sexual D/S.

One can be dominant in her/his relationship without being a sadist and one can even be a masochist in bed (obviously) and still be a dom/me out of the bedroom.

There are many, if we believe many of the books written about bdsm now-a-days (ex. Different Loving), dom/mes who are masochists and many subs who are sadists. Having your submissive *give* you intense sensation, in no way, makes you less dominant. (this is one of those times when using top and bottom to represent a sexual style rather than dom/me and sub would help me understand the context of the discussion a bit easier)

 

[Shadowsdream]

MsWorthy

(SD, do you mean to say that because you can't conceive of a moment of difficulty - ever - in remaining on top that all other dom/mes will feel this way as well - or they aren't dom/mes? Surely I have misunderstood something or am reading this incorrectly. )

I believe if You read My posts You will discover I speak for Me..from 24/7 and have never claimed to speak for ALL Dominants. and Yes...I never feel the need to not be on top..ever. I would not have prefaced the statement with the word ME if I did not expect Her to be recognized as a continuem of that statement. It is unlikely 2 Dominants in the entire world are carbon copies of another so it is inconcievable to think I would expect all or even most etc to Dominate in the way that I enjoy. Does that make them more or less than I?

I have covered that as well in a different thread...one style is no more valid than another..including a more casual BDSM style being more valid than 24/7 just because more do it.

(I am certain you realize that you are quite far to the left (or right, depending on your pov ~smiles~) on the continuum of bdsm styles. The vast majority of bdsmers are not even in bdsm lifestyles (intead, bdsm is their playstyle), much less 24/7, even fewer are into 24/7 TPE. So, I think it quite likely that many will find a need for some downtime from making all of the decisions/controlling. )

downtime meaning?


(I don't think submitting is the same as being a "do Me", pillow princess. In my opinion, submitting is about allowing whatever happens to happen (within limits discussed), whereas a pp has laid out what she/he wants, when/where she wants it done, and usually how hard/fast/soft/slow she/he wants it done. So, I don't think this has to do with switching (if by switching you mean exchanging who has the power in the relationship). A dominant can be a pp or have a *do Me* attitude in the bedroom and still be a dom/me. (I understand that the majority, here, prefer it another way, but that does not invalidate that style. Whoever has the power and control is the dom/me. It isn't determined by what goes on in the bedroom.) )

Does this have something to do with My post and if so what?

Not really sure what a pillow princess has to do with being a Switch...or how that term applies here at all?

As previously stated I do not post from the bedroom Domination rules point of view..there are many here that can post clearly and correctly with insight and depth from this perspective.

As previously stated I do not post from what the majority prefers they post for themselves. I post My persective from My life experiences to show another point of view BECAUSE it is different and gives options for more choices to accept or reject other possibilities.

I hope this is a bit clearer.

 

[MsWorthy]

Domme/sub Down Time - an article I wrote on downtime

Does a dominant ever not feel like being dominant? No, being dominant is part of one's personality, like being outgoing, a nature lover, or butch or femme. Does a dominant ever want to temporarily alter the balance of power in her relationship? Yes, certainly. There are times when all of us want or need a break from our responsibilities. Having a power exchange in a relationship is definitely a responsibility, one that must be tended to daily (unless your relationship is only one for play or scening), but there are certainly times when either domme or sub may not feel comfortable with the amount of power (responsibility) they are carrying. On any given day, a person must wear many hats and deal with many emotions, stresses (both internal and external), and challenges. It is perfectly natural that this person may find herself unable to meet the responsibilites of her power exchange for a specific and limited period of time (usually no more than a few hours unless one is dealing with a serious illness).

Being excused from performing one or all of your given tasks (or responsibilities) for a specified amount of time does not make you less submissive or less dominant, it simply means that you honor your humanity. No one can be "on" or "up" all of the time. Everyone calls in to work at some point, everyone has days when she is just too tired to cook, everyone has moments when she simply does not want the responsibility of deciding what to have for dinner. We are all human beings first, with limits on our stores of energy. Being in a D/s relationship does not change these human limits, and honoring these limits does not make us less domme or sub.

In my opinion, this dispute is not about whether needing down time means you are not really dominant or submissive but rather needing down time is an indicator of how much power you need to have or give up in a relationship. There are many dominant people in the world but there are few dommes (dominant people who NEED control in a relationship). Just as there are many passive people around, but few submissives (those who NEED to give up power in a relationship). What distinguishes these two types of dominant people is the fact that one group (the domme) needs and wants the responsibility of taking control of another person, whereas the other group (dominant people) would like to control things in the relationship but she doesn't NEED to control another person.

Many people want control, but few are willing to take that much responsibility for another person. Being the one in control carries with it the responsibility for knowing the best decision to make in all areas under her control (if one does not know the best decision to make, she researches all avenues until she is as informed as possible) and then acting on these decisions. These areas can include safety, sexuality, finances, emotional traumas/health, hotspots, and any other area she has control over. People who are dominant in temperament may want their partner to satisfy their sexuals desires first, be allowed to make decisions without argument, and have dinner served to them, but the vast majority are not willing to take the responsiblity that comes with accepting this submission to their desires. These people are more concerned with whether they can be "up" adequately (take responsibility) than if they are allowed to have down time.

Unless one has accepted more power than she can responsibly handle, a domme (or sub) will have very little trouble being "up" or taking responsibility the vast majority of the time. There will only be certain times, under certain circumstances in which this will become difficult to do. How often this will occur for any given person is determined by how much responsibility she has in the first place and how comfortable she is with this power (or lack of).

There is a wide range of areas to control as well as a range for the amount of control to have. Some of us want only a small range of control (i.e., sexuality) and only want control of this area for a temporary period of time. Others want much more control (i.e., decision making, sexual control, financial responsibility, and service in all areas of life) and they want this control all of the time. One who needs less control in fewer areas naturally has more down time than one who needs more.

It is easy to see how one who needs much more control may want occassional down time if life decides to hand her additional challenges in her life at some point. By down time, I do not mean taking days or weeks off from being responsible for her submissive (or her tasks), I mean taking a few hours after a particularly difficult day to think of no one but herself. This is healthy, centering time and it can usually be taken within the parameters of the relationship, but at times life hands us more than we can process in the midst of things and we need a bit of time alone to work through it. Asking your submissive to handle things for a few hours while you go for a walk, close your bedroom door, or veg in front of the TV does not make you less dominant than you were, and asking your domme if you can leave the dishes, take a long bath with the door locked, or take a nap does not make you less submissive. It simply means that life or nature has temporarily handed you more lemons than you can make into lemonade.

Do not commit yourself to accepting more responsibility (power) than you can comfortably handle. If you find yourself needing down time often, this is probably a sign that you have overextended yourself. Having more power in a relationship does not make you more domme. It is not a sign that you are higher on the pole or hierarchy of dommehood (there is no such thing), it simply means that you need more control and are comfortable taking this much responsibility. If you find that you are not comfortable with the amount of responsibilty that you have, renegotiate with your submissive. Remember, this is not a contest and the one with the most extreme BDSM wins; this is your life and your happiness. Take what makes you and your submissive happy and discard the rest.

Remember, having power means having responsibility. There is not a person living (or dead for that matter) who did not need, at some moment in her life, to take a short break from her responsibilties. This does not take away from her strengths or make her less than she was, it simply makes her human.




What Lord Colm and jade have to say about down time.
http://www.castlerealm.com/library/upsdowns.shtml

What Mistress Steel has to say about down time.
http://www.steel-door.com/Dominant_Drop.html

 

[P. B. Walker]

MsWorthy,

Very interesting topic and something I have wondered about for awhile. In my few forays into playing the Top role, I have felt that need to back off and have a little "me" time myself. Even in those few hours of play time. Thanks for posting such a wealth of information.

PBW

 

[MsWorthy]

MsWorthy,

Very interesting topic and something I have wondered about for awhile. In my few forays into playing the Top role, I have felt that need to back off and have a little "me" time myself. Even in those few hours of play time. Thanks for posting such a wealth of information.

PBW

You're welcome, PB.

Thank you for taking the time to read that monstrosity. ~smiles~