Below the belt

[Lazaran]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...p&cvid=934e435eac894fbeb9c9a64cdaaa88fd&ei=47

will no-one who thinks Israel did a fab job with this answer my question? I'm not being a smartarse, or trying to be cute or argumentative... if there's nothing it can be held accountable for, legality-wise, why aren't they loudly championing their actions? it seems odd and I can only think that, perhaps, Israel is waiting for some international 'legal clarification' to say it's not in violation before proudly admitting its actions

I suspect Israel isn’t talking too much about the exploding electronics because the operation isn’t over:

1) Israel took out Hezbollah’s pagers and some personnel.

2) Israel took out Hezbollah’s walkie-talkies and some more personnel.

3) Those ^ first two attacks forced some of Hezbollah’s top leadership to gather in person in Beirut to discuss strategy for a response, etc, imho.

4) Israel then hit the building in Beirut where the Hezbollah leaders had gathered in person, killing one of the top leaders of Hezbollah, along with at least a dozen others from the elite Hezbollah Radwan Force:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/12-dead-many-flee-beirut-183139626.html



Call it “a triple tap”:

1) Pagers and personnel.
2) Walkie-talkies and personnel.
3) Building and top personnel.



And, while the operation certainly isn’t concluded, this phase of the Israeli operation has achieved astonishing results as far as degrading Hezbollah’s command and control are concerned. (The continuing Israeli strikes on Hezbollah rocket launchers, etc, are also rapidly degrading Hezbollah’s military response capabilities.)

 

[Noor]

I suspect Israel isn’t talking too much about the exploding electronics because the operation isn’t over:

1) Israel took out Hezbollah’s pagers and some personnel.

2) Israel took out Hezbollah’s walkie-talkies and some more personnel.

3) Those ^ first two attacks forced Hezbollah top leadership to gather in person in Beirut to discuss strategy for a response, etc, imho.

4) Israel then hit the building in Beirut where the Hezbollah leaders had gathered in person, killing one of the top leaders of Hezbollah, along with at least a dozen others from the elite Hezbollah Radwan Force:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/12-dead-many-flee-beirut-183139626.html



Call it “a triple tap”:

1) Pagers and personnel.
2) Walkie-talkies and personnel.
3) Building and top personnel.



And, while the operation certainly isn’t concluded, this phase of the Israel operation has achieved astonishing results as far as degrading Hezbollah’s command and control are concerned. (The continuing Israeli strikes on Hezbollah rocket launchers, etc, are also rapidly degrading Hezbollah’s military response capabilities.)

There are some reports of taking out scooters on the 3rd day, 4th was taking out meetings.
It’s the sabbath now so maybe they will rest a day or not.
I would like to point out that some of those eliminated today had millions of US dollar bounties on them, and the us had been after them for decades.
So maybe Israel, maybe not, maybe other Lebanese terrorist groups who also want them gone and maybe the us is involved on some level.
It’s all pretty nebulous.
As the beepers and two way radios were distributed by the Iranian republican guard, same group whose members booby trapped Haniyeh’s room in Iran. Perhaps Iran is done with Hezbollah too.

 

[Buffalogurl]

Burn in hell, Putin-lover.

Putin lover?....... let's review....
Putin protects his country's border, Putin doesn't coddle the illegal alien, Putin placed his country on the gold system, Russia’s government punishes the criminal element, Putin doesn't fall up the steps of his aircraft...Putin didn't tolerate having us/nato missiles placed on the Ukrainian border aimed at Moscow with less than 5-7 minute flight time... Putin fish's for sharks and wrestles bears, Biden plays golf
Biden, has open borders (11 million) unveted criminals, 5 million of military age ....here's a trick, just Google 4 Venezuelans rape a minor, report back how many innocent people's lives were destroyed at the hands of your replacements.... Biden gave 150 billion of your hard earned money to a corrupt man/government while my fellow citizens are doing without, Biden's son "hunter" is a failure, Biden coddles the wetback.... your replacement, and after the illegal alien commits a crime is immediately released from jail.. The current crime family in power has sold you, me and the remaining citizens of the US "out" to the Chinese for 30 pieces of silver..... Oh, while my military is being forced to receive "diversity training" Putin's military is learning to field strip and maintain their rifles..... ..... just my humble opinion ...
No, I'm no Putin lover, but I admire his willingness/resolve to protect his people, his country......
All the while, angry little man your "side" is flooding this once great nation with filth of the 3rd world.. your replacements. now run off to work at your mind numbing job, pissing your days away, paying inflated prices... while the Biden regime gives your money to the well-being of the illegal aliens....... the long and short of it is..... "your fucked as hogan's goat"
Enjoy your day paying off other people's debt and paying for the well-being of the illegal aliens....
Just my humble opinion of course

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Putin lover?....... let's review....

Yes Buffy, that's exactly what the fuck you are.

Just my humble opinion of course

Yes, maybe keep your humble opinions to yourself, you'd look less the idiot that way....Have a nice day!!

 

[ChloeTzang]

Of course they had prior knowledge. If they didn't, they would be extremely incompetent.

LOL. Are you implying the US Govt is competent? Against all the evidence? Israel KNOWS we are watching and they are probably as good as anyone at concealing things from us. Assuming we had prior knowledge and that the Biden Administration wouldn't do their best to fuck it up for Israel is a real stretch.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I suspect Israel isn’t talking too much about the exploding electronics because the operation isn’t over:

1) Israel took out Hezbollah’s pagers and some personnel.

2) Israel took out Hezbollah’s walkie-talkies and some more personnel.

3) Those ^ first two attacks forced some of Hezbollah’s top leadership to gather in person in Beirut to discuss strategy for a response, etc, imho.

4) Israel then hit the building in Beirut where the Hezbollah leaders had gathered in person, killing one of the top leaders of Hezbollah, along with at least a dozen others from the elite Hezbollah Radwan Force:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/12-dead-many-flee-beirut-183139626.html



Call it “a triple tap”:

1) Pagers and personnel.
2) Walkie-talkies and personnel.
3) Building and top personnel.



And, while the operation certainly isn’t concluded, this phase of the Israeli operation has achieved astonishing results as far as degrading Hezbollah’s command and control are concerned. (The continuing Israeli strikes on Hezbollah rocket launchers, etc, are also rapidly degrading Hezbollah’s military response capabilities.)

LOL! Jeez Laz, I form an opinion of you and then you have to go and post something I 100% agree with. Pigs are circling overhead as we speak. I need a coffee to recover from the shock!

But speciousness aside, totally agree. There's been so much planning and prep gone into this operation that one can only assume it's part of a much larger op with longer term goals.

 

[Rebel5soul]

LOL! Jeez Laz, I form an opinion of you and then you have to go and post something I 100% agree with. Pigs are circling overhead as we speak. I need a coffee to recover from the shock!

But speciousness aside, totally agree. There's been so much planning and prep gone into this operation that one can only assume it's part of a much larger op with longer term goals.

Hamas is done, virtually exterminated. It's now Hezbollah's turn to disappear from the face of the Earth. Once Hezbollah has been weakened enough those Lebanese that want no part of the psychopaths activities will join in with the Israeli's to aid in the extermination. The Lebanese want their nation back and the only way that's going to happen is for Hezbollah to begone.

 

[ll74]

Putin lover?....... let's review....
Putin protects his country's border, Putin doesn't coddle the illegal alien, Putin placed his country on the gold system, Russia’s government punishes the criminal element, Putin doesn't fall up the steps of his aircraft...Putin didn't tolerate having us/nato missiles placed on the Ukrainian border aimed at Moscow with less than 5-7 minute flight time... Putin fish's for sharks and wrestles bears, Biden plays golf
Biden, has open borders (11 million) unveted criminals, 5 million of military age ....here's a trick, just Google 4 Venezuelans rape a minor, report back how many innocent people's lives were destroyed at the hands of your replacements.... Biden gave 150 billion of your hard earned money to a corrupt man/government while my fellow citizens are doing without, Biden's son "hunter" is a failure, Biden coddles the wetback.... your replacement, and after the illegal alien commits a crime is immediately released from jail.. The current crime family in power has sold you, me and the remaining citizens of the US "out" to the Chinese for 30 pieces of silver..... Oh, while my military is being forced to receive "diversity training" Putin's military is learning to field strip and maintain their rifles..... ..... just my humble opinion ...
No, I'm no Putin lover, but I admire his willingness/resolve to protect his people, his country......
All the while, angry little man your "side" is flooding this once great nation with filth of the 3rd world.. your replacements. now run off to work at your mind numbing job, pissing your days away, paying inflated prices... while the Biden regime gives your money to the well-being of the illegal aliens....... the long and short of it is..... "your fucked as hogan's goat"
Enjoy your day paying off other people's debt and paying for the well-being of the illegal aliens....
Just my humble opinion of course

Admiration is a kind of affection....similar to love.

You prefer autocratic dictators to our form of government.

 

[Yarglenurp]

Putin lover?....... let's review....
Putin protects his country's border, Putin doesn't coddle the illegal alien, Putin placed his country on the gold system, Russia’s government punishes the criminal element, Putin doesn't fall up the steps of his aircraft...Putin didn't tolerate having us/nato missiles placed on the Ukrainian border aimed at Moscow with less than 5-7 minute flight time... Putin fish's for sharks and wrestles bears, Biden plays golf
Biden, has open borders (11 million) unveted criminals, 5 million of military age ....here's a trick, just Google 4 Venezuelans rape a minor, report back how many innocent people's lives were destroyed at the hands of your replacements.... Biden gave 150 billion of your hard earned money to a corrupt man/government while my fellow citizens are doing without, Biden's son "hunter" is a failure, Biden coddles the wetback.... your replacement, and after the illegal alien commits a crime is immediately released from jail.. The current crime family in power has sold you, me and the remaining citizens of the US "out" to the Chinese for 30 pieces of silver..... Oh, while my military is being forced to receive "diversity training" Putin's military is learning to field strip and maintain their rifles..... ..... just my humble opinion ...
No, I'm no Putin lover, but I admire his willingness/resolve to protect his people, his country......
All the while, angry little man your "side" is flooding this once great nation with filth of the 3rd world.. your replacements. now run off to work at your mind numbing job, pissing your days away, paying inflated prices... while the Biden regime gives your money to the well-being of the illegal aliens....... the long and short of it is..... "your fucked as hogan's goat"
Enjoy your day paying off other people's debt and paying for the well-being of the illegal aliens....
Just my humble opinion of course

Didn’t read because you’re a Putin-lover. I can’t believe you think a Putin-loving traitor’s thoughts have any value. America will find you and hunt you down for your crimes. Burn in hell, traitor filth.

 

[butters]

I suspect Israel isn’t talking too much about the exploding electronics because the operation isn’t over:

1) Israel took out Hezbollah’s pagers and some personnel.

2) Israel took out Hezbollah’s walkie-talkies and some more personnel.

3) Those ^ first two attacks forced some of Hezbollah’s top leadership to gather in person in Beirut to discuss strategy for a response, etc, imho.

4) Israel then hit the building in Beirut where the Hezbollah leaders had gathered in person, killing one of the top leaders of Hezbollah, along with at least a dozen others from the elite Hezbollah Radwan Force:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/12-dead-many-flee-beirut-183139626.html



Call it “a triple tap”:

1) Pagers and personnel.
2) Walkie-talkies and personnel.
3) Building and top personnel.



And, while the operation certainly isn’t concluded, this phase of the Israeli operation has achieved astonishing results as far as degrading Hezbollah’s command and control are concerned. (The continuing Israeli strikes on Hezbollah rocket launchers, etc, are also rapidly degrading Hezbollah’s military response capabilities.)

once the pagers and walkie-talkies had done their jobs, it was obvious (since i heard several heads speaking about 'what comes next' on various news sites) the leaders wold end up having to meet in person, likely in one building, creating that one specific target. Since this was clearly next, it doesn't explain why Israel doesn't claim responsibility. All fingers are pointing at Israel. Silence in the form of non-confirmation or a lack of denial doesn't change this.

Yes, I agree, it was a most effective operation in disrupting and setting back hezbollah's goals.

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=1821f587ad434df3be221ca969621d98&ei=58

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — Weaponizing ordinary communication devices represents a new development in warfare, and targeting thousands of Lebanese people using pagers, two-way radios and electronic equipment without their knowledge is a violation of international human rights law, the United Nations human rights chief said Friday.

Volker Türk told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council there must be an independent and transparent investigation of the two attacks in Lebanon on Tuesday and Wednesday where these devices exploded, reportedly killing 37 people and injuring more than 3,400 others.

“Those who ordered and carried out these attacks must be held to account,” he said.

Lebanon has blamed Israel for the attacks, which appeared to target Hezbollah militants but also saw many civilian casualties, including children. Hezbollah has fought many conflicts with Israel, including a war in 2006, and it has conducted near-daily strikes against Israel to support Hamas militants who attacked Israel on Oct. 7.

 

[butters]

reports of

a deleted tweet by Netanyahu adviser Topaz Luke, who reportedly retweeted a post that included a reply indicating that Israel was behind the attacks in Lebanon and neighboring Syria.

Türk, the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, said the explosions not only violated international human rights law but also appear to violate international humanitarian law’s key principles in carrying out attacks: distinction between civilians and combatants, proportionality, and precautions.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...1&cvid=1821f587ad434df3be221ca969621d98&ei=58

International law also prohibits the use of booby-trap devices that look harmless, he said, and “it is a war crime to commit violence intended to spread terror among civilians.”

“Let me be clear — this method of warfare may be new and unfamiliar,” Türk said, “but international humanitarian and human rights law apply regardless and must be upheld.”

i would say this might be the reason Israel's not claiming responsibility

 

[Lazaran]

There are some reports of taking out scooters on the 3rd day, 4th was taking out meetings.
It’s the sabbath now so maybe they will rest a day or not.
I would like to point out that some of those eliminated today had millions of US dollar bounties on them, and the us had been after them for decades.
So maybe Israel, maybe not, maybe other Lebanese terrorist groups who also want them gone and maybe the us is involved on some level.
It’s all pretty nebulous.
As the beepers and two way radios were distributed by the Iranian republican guard, same group whose members booby trapped Haniyeh’s room in Iran. Perhaps Iran is done with Hezbollah too.

More likely that the revolutionary guard, etc, have been infiltrated / compromised. Lest we forget, Iran has been dealing with some revolutionary forces within its own population and their is a significant contingent in Lebanon that doesn’t want Beirut to end up looking like Gaza City because of Hezbollah’s terroristic actions.



It was most certainly an Israeli operation, and @butters theory that Israel is keeping mum to limit their exposure in the international court and the court of public opinion is certainly valid.

 

[Rightguide]

Not to rain on anyone in particular's parade, but it's worth noting that if any other sovereign nation on this earth besides Israel had modified a batch of technology (smart phone, tablets, pagers, walkie talkies, etc.) to explode and sent them to random/unknown people in another country, it would be considered a textbook case of state terrorism.

And please, spare me your rationalizations and special pleadings. I've heard them all before.

Not in wartime. Besides the vast majority of victims were the terrorists themselves. Let us not forget the thousands of rockets that Hezbollah has launched into Israel killing large numbers of civilians and driving 60,000 people from their homes in the North. Those devices were not sent to random people. The shipment was ordered by Hezbollah agents.

 

[Noor]

More likely that the revolutionary guard, etc, have been infiltrated / compromised. Lest we forget, Iran has been dealing with some revolutionary forces within its own population and their is a significant contingent in Lebanon that doesn’t want Beirut to end up looking like Gaza City because of Hezbollah’s terroristic actions.



It was most certainly an Israeli operation, and @butters theory that Israel is keeping mum to limit their exposure in the international court and the court of public opinion is certainly valid.

At this point, Israel doesn’t give a crap about the international court or public opinion, they are fighting for their survival.
If Israel does anything, they will acknowledge it when it is safe to do so.
People tend to forget that Israel has been under constant attack since Oct 7, despite their not responding to the massacre until Oct 13.
Protests against Isreal also start Oct 7.

 

[butters]

At this point, Israel doesn’t give a crap about the international court or public opinion, they are fighting for their survival.
If Israel does anything, they will acknowledge it when it is safe to do so.
People tend to forget that Israel has been under constant attack since Oct 7, despite their not responding to the massacre until Oct 13.
Protests against Isreal also start Oct 7.

what does that mean, really?

everyone (Iran, Lebanon, most people) sees Israel as behind the attacks, via Mossad in a years' long planning for such an action and executed now... so danger is already aimed their way. What else can it be except being held accountable for violating international humanitarian law?

 

[Lazaran]

L

At this point, Israel doesn’t give a crap about the international court or public opinion, they are fighting for their survival.
If Israel does anything, they will acknowledge it when it is safe to do so.
People tend to forget that Israel has been under constant attack since Oct 7, despite their not responding to the massacre until Oct 13.
Protests against Isreal also start Oct 7.

I agree, in the short term “Israel doesn’t give a crap about the international court or public opinion”, but there WILL be a day after. (Hopefully).

I don’t believe Israel wants to burn every bridge by openly flouting international rules / norms, and alienating the entire international community by flaunting their unprecedented use of augmented everyday electronic devices as weapons of mass destruction. (And there is STILL a war to be won which WILL require allies.

JMTCW.

 

[Noor]

what does that mean, really?

everyone (Iran, Lebanon, most people) sees Israel as behind the attacks, via Mossad in a years' long planning for such an action and executed now... so danger is already aimed their way. What else can it be except being held accountable for violating international humanitarian law?

It means it will not release any information which may be a security leak to their operatives or their allies.
This is war. They are under a “loose lips sink ships” situation.

It seems to me that a lot of westerners don’t get that Israel is at risk of being annihilated as in from the river to the sea, and that they are the only absolutely safe haven for the Jews of the world. Israel is the indigenous land of the Jews, as the Old Testament and multiple historical sources will say.
No other country seems able to guarantee safety to their Jewish citizens esp at this point.

 

[Noor]

L


I agree, in the short term “Israel doesn’t give a crap about the international court or public opinion”, but there WILL be a day after. (Hopefully).

I don’t believe Israel wants to burn every bridge by openly flouting international rules / norms, and alienating the entire international community by flaunting their unprecedented use of augmented everyday electronic devices as weapons of mass destruction. (And there is STILL a war to be won which WILL require allies.

JMTCW.

They are still an active part of the Abraham accords.
The devices were only for Hezbollah fighters, hardly mass destruction.
Israel is still only fighting the enemy in Lebanon and confining itself to legal warfare.
Read up on what is legal during war.
Remember Israel did not start this war, they did not attack Lebanon first.
It’s clear to me that there is a lot of antisemitism out there, where every other group is considered except the Jews.

 

[Lazaran]

They are still an active part of the Abraham accords.
The devices were only for Hezbollah fighters, hardly mass destruction.
Israel is still only fighting the enemy in Lebanon and confining itself to legal warfare.
Read up on what is legal during war.
Remember Israel did not start this war, they did not attack Lebanon first.
It’s clear to me that there is a lot of antisemitism out there, where every other group is considered except the Jews.

First off: While Iagree that Israel IS being held to a different standard than terrorist regimes / organizations (anti-Semitism?) , that is actually a good thing for Israel in a very real way, no???



Second: The use of the term “weapons of mass destruction” was only mildly hyperbolic. The augmentation of common electronic devices into deadly weapons capable of killing thousands with “the push of a button” certainly qualifies those augmented common electronic devices as “weapons capable of mass destruction”; full stop.



A line has been crossed by Israel’s use of exploding pagers, etc - whether it can be “justified” or not; full stop. (But, considering that Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, etc are engaged in a war of genocide against Israel, just about anything can be “justified”.)



We are in a different world after the exploding pager / walkie-talkie event; full stop. I can understand why Israel did it, but I don’t have to like everything about it (especially the long-term and inevitable unanticipated consequences.)

 

[butters]

i think we need to distinguish the difference between being anti-semitic and anti any country doing some of the things Israel is doing. religion, as far as i am concerned, doesn't even come into it when it comes to weighing what is right, fair or just.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Palestine is a national liberation struggle. Nothing to do with religion.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

what does that mean, really?

everyone (Iran, Lebanon, most people) sees Israel as behind the attacks, via Mossad in a years' long planning for such an action and executed now... so danger is already aimed their way. What else can it be except being held accountable for violating international humanitarian law?

Israel knows that international law will not be applied fairly to them. That even when they adhere to international law, they will be accused of war crimes, apartheid, and genocide.

 

[butters]

*sigh*

 

[deckardB26354]

Israel knows that international law will not be applied fairly to them. That even when they adhere to international law, they will be accused of war crimes, apartheid, and genocide.

When did they adhere to international law? It appears that they’ve broken more laws than they’ve adhered to.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statem...-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state

Charges against Hamas:

• Extermination as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(b) of the Rome Statute;
• Murder as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(a), and as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
• Taking hostages as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(iii);
• Rape and other acts of sexual violence as crimes against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(g), and also as war crimes pursuant to article 8(2)(e)(vi) in the context of captivity;
• Torture as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(f), and also as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity;
• Other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(l)(k), in the context of captivity;
• Cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity; and
• Outrages upon personal dignity as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(ii), in the context of captivity.

Charges against Israel:

• Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
• Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
• Wilful killing contrary to article 8(2)(a)(i), or Murder as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
• Intentionally directing attacks against a civilian population as a war crime contrary to articles 8(2)(b)(i), or 8(2)(e)(i);
• Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity;
• Persecution as a crime against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(h);
• Other inhumane acts as crimes against humanity contrary to article 7(1)(k).