Before Hellbaby starts it......

[DevilishTexan]

Did ya hear about that NSA spy program?

Oh yeah, more Democrat spin. Seems they'll stop at nothing to drum up enough evidence to impeach Bush.

Basically its a program that AT&T, Verizon and other phone companies are participating in. Top secret stuff. Think its been brought up here before. Allows the Govt to trace all our calls and eavesdrop or something like that.

Buuuut, what you weren't told by USA Today and other leftist papers is that its actually the Echelon program thats been around for years and was even used extensively during the Clinton admin.

Now I know all you "post a link, post a link" types will jump on here demanding proof of this (Echelon program) and all I have to say is it goes both ways. Let the left wing, "drive by" media and Dems prove their case as well.

Echelon

 

[garbage can]

Did ya hear about that NSA spy program?

Oh yeah, more Democrat spin. Seems they'll stop at nothing to drum up enough evidence to impeach Bush.

Basically its a program that AT&T, Verizon and other phone companies are participating in. Top secret stuff. Think its been brought up here before. Allows the Govt to trace all our calls and eavesdrop or something like that.

Buuuut, what you weren't told by USA Today and other leftist papers is that its actually the Echelon program thats been around for years and was even used extensively during the Clinton admin.

Now I know all you "post a link, post a link" types will jump on here demanding proof of this (Echelon program) and all I have to say is it goes both ways. Let the left wing, "drive by" media and Dems prove their case as well.

Echelon

Cell phone eavesdropping by NSA has been going on since the 90's

And yes, the Dems almost always prove their case, because the media aids and abets them..

 

[Slowlane]

Did ya hear about that NSA spy program?

Oh yeah, more Democrat spin. Seems they'll stop at nothing to drum up enough evidence to impeach Bush.

Basically its a program that AT&T, Verizon and other phone companies are participating in. Top secret stuff. Think its been brought up here before. Allows the Govt to trace all our calls and eavesdrop or something like that.

Buuuut, what you weren't told by USA Today and other leftist papers is that its actually the Echelon program thats been around for years and was even used extensively during the Clinton admin.

Now I know all you "post a link, post a link" types will jump on here demanding proof of this (Echelon program) and all I have to say is it goes both ways. Let the left wing, "drive by" media and Dems prove their case as well.

Echelon

It’s old news. The only reason for dragging it up again now is --- well, you already know.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Just so you understand, Devilish Texan, the Echelon program was used primarily for FOREIGN intercepts under the Clinton administration.

The Bush administration seems to be using Echelon to spy primarily on DOMESTICALLY on millions of people here in the United States.

Many people would consider that contrary to the American way. I know you don't, but then you are a poor excuse for an American to begin with.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It’s old news. The only reason for dragging it up again now is --- well, you already know.

The reason it's news now is because the government is using this tool to spy on its own people.

 

[Worm]

OMG they know I ordered a pizza last night.........run.....

K seriously......the other "spy" program I had no problems with. If the government wants to spy on the enemy I don't care if there is a citizen on the other line or not.

This is a bit different. It appears to be all my phone records...yea it doesn't sound like a huge deal but if they had the means it is just a step away from "data mining" all conversations.

 

[JazzManJim]

Hey guys. Did you know that the government has detailed records on how much we've earned over our lifetimes, who we've worked for, how much we've given to charity, where we lived, how many dependents we have, and how much we spend each year on things like healthcare, job-related purchases, and interest on our house?

It's a scandal!

 

[Worm]

Hey guys. Did you know that the government has detailed records on how much we've earned over our lifetimes, who we've worked for, how much we've given to charity, where we lived, how many dependents we have, and how much we spend each year on things like healthcare, job-related purchases, and interest on our house?

It's a scandal!

Not me I did my own taxes..I'm waiting on my audit.

 

[islandman]

Basically its a program that AT&T, Verizon and other phone companies are participating in.

'Participating' sounds so much better than 'Federal subpeona'. That's mighty good spin, almost Democrat-worthy.

 

[JazzManJim]

OMG they know I ordered a pizza last night.........run.....

K seriously......the other "spy" program I had no problems with. If the government wants to spy on the enemy I don't care if there is a citizen on the other line or not.

This is a bit different. It appears to be all my phone records...yea it doesn't sound like a huge deal but if they had the means it is just a step away from "data mining" all conversations.

That's a big "if", though.

I watched General Hayden give a talk on C-SPAN over the weekend (the speech he gave was back in January) and he said that in 2003, Americans spent over 200 billion minutes in international phone calls (I don't know whether that's just for cell phones, or total). I'd be hard-pressed to believe in my wildest dreams that we have the means now, or in the near future, to process 200 billion minutes a year (and no doubt more, since then). I shudder to think how many minutes we spend on domestic phone calls in a year. Three times that? Four? Five?

 

[Saint Boner]

You'd think with all the phone taps we could have Osama by now. He must not be using the phone. With unwarranted taps I'll bet you can get some good insider tips if you know who to tap.

 

[Wok]

That's a big "if", though.

I watched General Hayden give a talk on C-SPAN over the weekend (the speech he gave was back in January) and he said that in 2003, Americans spent over 200 billion minutes in international phone calls (I don't know whether that's just for cell phones, or total). I'd be hard-pressed to believe in my wildest dreams that we have the means now, or in the near future, to process 200 billion minutes a year (and no doubt more, since then). I shudder to think how many minutes we spend on domestic phone calls in a year. Three times that? Four? Five?

I would hate to see the server farms to store all those conversations.

 

[Worm]

That's a big "if", though.

I watched General Hayden give a talk on C-SPAN over the weekend (the speech he gave was back in January) and he said that in 2003, Americans spent over 200 billion minutes in international phone calls (I don't know whether that's just for cell phones, or total). I'd be hard-pressed to believe in my wildest dreams that we have the means now, or in the near future, to process 200 billion minutes a year (and no doubt more, since then). I shudder to think how many minutes we spend on domestic phone calls in a year. Three times that? Four? Five?

Oh I agree with everything said there for at least the forseeable future. However would you be comfortable with a computer listening in on your voice and "mining" it for key words?

 

[Anachron]

Maybe we should all make it a point to use at least two of the following words in every phone conversation:

bomb
assassinate
Allah
terrorist
Osama
hijack
Saudi Arabia
uranium
Semtex
Zionist

Can you imagine how quick that would overload any attempt at surveillance. "Gee honey, I think ALLAH is pissed at me, could you pick up a loaf of bread on the way home? Cheaper than URANIUM, you know."

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ishmael]

'Participating' sounds so much better than 'Federal subpeona'. That's mighty good spin, almost Democrat-worthy.

'Bullshit' is the only word that applies to this post. It was by act of congress early in the Clinton admin. You might want to research before you post.

Ishmael

 

[Slowlane]

Just so you understand, Devilish Texan, the Echelon program was used primarily for FOREIGN intercepts under the Clinton administration.

The Bush administration seems to be using Echelon to spy primarily on DOMESTICALLY on millions of people here in the United States.

Many people would consider that contrary to the American way. I know you don't, but then you are a poor excuse for an American to begin with.

The program isn’t spying on anybody. It’s recording patterns. Less information than Safeway gets from their preferred customer card I’ll bet.

BTW - The CIA program is aimed at FOREGIN intercepts now too. You guys keep missing that part.

 

[JazzManJim]

Oh I agree with everything said there for at least the forseeable future. However would you be comfortable with a computer listening in on your voice and "mining" it for key words?

Given that a) there's no evidence that such a thing is happening, and b) even if the govenrment were drift-netting every single phone conversations int he country, finding one of mine would be like finding a shrew in a forest the size of Jupiter based on hearing alone, I'm not worried.

 

[Slowlane]

The reason it's news now is because the government is using this tool to spy on its own people.

I just answered that, but I’ll do it again because the answer is so obvious it’s fun to give. This isn’t a SPY program. Telephone companies collect this data automatically.

They need it to project further growth (the same as any other company collects data on customers) There is probably more information available about most people on the internet than the government has or will get through this program.

 

[Slowlane]

Hey guys. Did you know that the government has detailed records on how much we've earned over our lifetimes, who we've worked for, how much we've given to charity, where we lived, how many dependents we have, and how much we spend each year on things like healthcare, job-related purchases, and interest on our house?

It's a scandal!

You left out the names and numbers of your wife, kids, dog, what cars you own, what doctor you see, and the prescription for your glasses. (Ok I’m not sure about that last one.)

 

[Ishmael]

The program isn’t spying on anybody. It’s recording patterns. Less information than Safeway gets from their preferred customer card I’ll bet.

BTW - The CIA program is aimed at FOREGIN intercepts now too. You guys keep missing that part.

He's not 'missing' anything. He's just spinning it for his own purposes. This is old news with being trotted out with a new hat.

But under the worst case what do they have? They have call records. The calling number, the number called, time/date stamp, and call duration. It's exactly the same call record that is stored in every pay phone in the country.

Is the data useful? Using some sophisticated data reduction algorithms they can detect patterns, particularly with foriegn calls.

Correct me if I'm wrong (this is for JMJ) but aren't those records available without subpeaona to every police dept.? It's just the conversation itself (if domestic) that requires a court order.

Ishmael

 

[Slowlane]

'Participating' sounds so much better than 'Federal subpeona'. That's mighty good spin, almost Democrat-worthy.

Had therr been a supeona the comapnies that refused to give up the information would be prosicuted. I haven’t heard anything about that happening – have you?

 

[Slowlane]

Maybe we should all make it a point to use at least two of the following words in every phone conversation:

bomb
assassinate
Allah
terrorist
Osama
hijack
Saudi Arabia
uranium
Semtex
Zionist

Can you imagine how quick that would overload any attempt at surveillance. "Gee honey, I think ALLAH is pissed at me, could you pick up a loaf of bread on the way home? Cheaper than URANIUM, you know."

Hey honey. I heard on the news that some Zionist from Saudi Arabia tried to hijack a plane. I guess he must have been a terrorist. Probably a follower of Allah and Osama. I wonder if he had uranium for a dirty bomb. I sure would like to eat your pussy when I get home.

Oh fuck, the cops are after me – what did I say? Are they after me for saying "bomb" or "pussy"?

 

[breakwall]

So...let me get this straight...

Echelon is a program by which the government has access to phone records of every American, without issuing a subpeona. It was started by the Democrats...which makes it bad...but now it's being used by the Republicans...which makes it okay.

 

[ma_guy]

So...let me get this straight...

Echelon is a program by which the government has access to phone records of every American, without issuing a subpeona. It was started by the Democrats...which makes it bad...but now it's being used by the Republicans...which makes it okay.

The fun part is that today's news story doesn't even have anything to do with Echelon.