BDSM writing

[CharleyH]

Yes, I know your point. The first occurs in a professional environment, just not Santa's I am thinking, in this context that a domme can internalize a weakness, observing their own weakness or mistake without losing control, and yet at the same time, maintaining a level of 'it's still a turn-on'. I think this is the biggest conflict to me - to show reality amidst the fantasy - a weakness amongst the control - afterall, these are real people. What are your thoughts?

Pure
If you look at the Story of O, you'll note there's almost an absence of 'feeling' words "She was terrified." "She felt despair." So the supplement is to allow space for the readers to feel and insert (project) their feelings, and that's done by concentrating on external details, and sensations, but 'implying' the feeling.

Also thanks Pure. At the moment I am relying on descriptives of action. 'she flinched from the sound . . . arched from the etc. etc. I like the way you describe this space between the reader and the text, and I will keep it in my mind.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

BTW what is cliche in BDSM writing? In otherwords, what are common errors that you as a reader see in BDSM writing.

Any thoughts?

I don't know if it qualifies as a cliche, but one thing that bothers me in many BDSM stories is the seeming fascination the author has with the actions involved and nothing more. I guess I mean that their excitement comes from the fact that it's a deviant act, rather than being driven by the deeper/darker needs and desire that I believe the inclination stems from. The best BDSM stories I've read have taken the reader into those dark places and somehow given a glimpse of the driving force behind dominating and/or submitting.

I think a very oft used item is the 'accidental' discovery of bdsm. I just can't buy that a guy has a bad day at work, comes home and starts smacking the wife around and they both get aroused by it. Another is jumping straight into the heavy humiliation or heavy S&M aspects. Build-up is necessary in my experience. I think it's also the meat and potatoes of the story. The pinnacle, while satisfying, tends to leave just enough wanting to let you know that it won't be the last time you push boundaries and attempt to determine just how fully one can be possessed by their need.

I think suspense has a great deal to do with it. The reader most likely knows the natural progression of the need, so the most important thing to show is the intensity of that need and how it's me. Keeping an air of mystery while you do that is key for me. I hate being able to predict a story paragraph by paragraph. Additionally, I think a great contributor to that kind of carnal need is the challenge involved in obtaining a greater or different level of dominance/submission each time. Characters that are reaching ever higher to quench the unquenchable thirst that lives within them.

I'm in the middle of my first BDSM story and I've been at it for months because of this issue...

Is it possible to write (well, obviously anything is possible) but is it feasable to write from a perspective of this change in the Domme without losing the sense of control that the Domme should obviously have?

In doing so, showing this weakness, and I will say weakness in the most minute of action hesitations, but more prolonged reflection of internal monologue, would such a scene lose its SM flavour? Would it lose its sexual appeal to the reader?

The vulnerabilities are there. Of course, the essence of control keeps them from interfering, but to leave them out entirely for the sake of preserving the Dom/me's sense of power/strength/control seems negligent somehow. JMHO.

~lucky

 

[CharleyH]

Yes Lou, about this realism business. (Lou or anyone really)

I am so struggling right now. What happens to a reader when the Dominatrix perspective gives up professional trade secrets? False piercing for example. She carries herself in a professional manner, and would indeed not in actuality pierce someones body unless she wants to be sued, and yet describes the process of a false piercing - all of this in contrast to her personal life where the story does not break to be self-reflexive (for lack of a better term right now).

How is this likely to affect a reader?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Re: BDSM writing

I don't know if it qualifies as a cliche, but one thing that bothers me in many BDSM stories is the seeming fascination the author has with the actions involved and nothing more. I guess I mean that their excitement comes from the fact that it's a deviant act, rather than being driven by the deeper/darker needs and desire that I believe the inclination stems from. The best BDSM stories I've read have taken the reader into those dark places and somehow given a glimpse of the driving force behind dominating and/or submitting.

I think a very oft used item is the 'accidental' discovery of bdsm. I just can't buy that a guy has a bad day at work, comes home and starts smacking the wife around and they both get aroused by it. Another is jumping straight into the heavy humiliation or heavy S&M aspects. Build-up is necessary in my experience. I think it's also the meat and potatoes of the story. The pinnacle, while satisfying, tends to leave just enough wanting to let you know that it won't be the last time you push boundaries and attempt to determine just how fully one can be possessed by their need.

...

~lucky

Yeah. That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

I suppose there are people who get off on just reading about whippings and piercings and all that, but I've kind of come to the conclusion that what's really sexy about sex is what it says about the people doing it. In other words, sex is an expression of emotion, and the hottest stuff lets us feel what the other person is feeling emotionally. It reveals their personality and desires.

That's why the Tab A into Slot B stuff is so dead and devoid of erotic heat. In any kind of porn I want to see the whole person and see what they're feeling. Its those little details that let you understand a person's emotional response that do it for me.

---dr.M.

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: BDSM writing

Originally posted by lucky-E-leven driven by the deeper/darker needs and desire that I believe the inclination stems from. The best BDSM stories I've read have taken the reader into those dark places and somehow given a glimpse of the driving force behind dominating and/or submitting.

Hm. You are making me think here, and that's a great thing.

Another is jumping straight into the heavy humiliation or heavy S&M aspects. Build-up is necessary in my experience.

Would you say this is true also if the scene is a Dominatrix and a client, and time is money?

What would your opinion be on a chapter that leaves the sub with a ruined orgasm, and subsequently, in form, leaves the reader in this same place?

I think suspense has a great deal to do with it. The reader most likely knows the natural progression of the need, so the most important thing to show is the intensity of that need and how it's me. Keeping an air of mystery while you do that is key for me.

Mystery for sexual gratification as a reader, or on a deeper level? So in getting back to a question posed after your post . . . if there is the element of reality - self-reflexivity if you will - does the intensity of the SM session loose it's lustre, and if so, is the need to make the chapter sexual in nature unnecessary?

I hate being able to predict a story paragraph by paragraph. Additionally, I think a great contributor to that kind of carnal need is the challenge involved in obtaining a greater or different level of dominance/submission each time. Characters that are reaching ever higher to quench the unquenchable thirst that lives within them.

Hm. Hm. Hm. So if the unquenchable thirst of the protagonist is to attain balance, articulated through a "professional" SM scene, would the disinterest on the part of the Domme to maintain an SM lifestyle be detrimental to a more active and personal SM chapter that is in no way reflexive, but rather simply plays out later in the story?

I empathize with your struggle, believe me - lol - and feel free to hijack for anything you are working out. I just wanted to have a discussion about SM writing/reading, not simply or only about what I am trying to accomplish in my own writing.

Thanks Lucky.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Beware the Ramble...

Would you say this is true also if the scene is a Dominatrix and a client, and time is money?

I don't want to come across wrong here as I'm not familiar with the paid world of D/s, but my inclination is that everything is situational. I suppose if the client is excessively needy, calls daily in an attempt to move the appointment up, acts out immediately to receive a swift and sure punishment...jumping straight to the heart of the matter is necessary. I tend to think, though, that when it comes to effectively filling both of their needs (the Dominatrix's to manage time efficiently/the sub's to get their money's worth) that quality is weighted heavier than quantity.

What would your opinion be on a chapter that leaves the sub with a ruined orgasm, and subsequently, in form, leaves the reader in this same place?

I wish I did, but I don't experience excitement in stories with the characters. I get plenty excited, but it can typically be contributed to the more internal thoughts/feelings a character experiences than to the fact that their rocks off. I wouldn't be bothered in the least if a sub didn't get off. If the build-up was effective and I can tell that the sub was quickly heading down the path to ecstasy and that the progression was believable, I'll still be wet and amped at the end of the story. (TMI?) Maybe it's different for a male, but I think once the arousal/interest has been piqued, it takes quite a lot (bestiality, incest, rape, etc...) to completely douse the flame.

Is this still the Dominatrix situation? Or does it involve a scene of the private variety?

I guess I'm of the opinion that most people paying to be dominated are attempting to fill some kind of mental/emotional need rather than just the tactile sensation of pain. I believe that pain is the fastest, most temporary and most preferred manner of fulfilling their needs for pain, humiliation, submission, etc. If that's the case, the pain will be a punctuation of their submission and need to be overpowered, no matter when or how quickly it's delivered. I'm a firm believer in the chase and the challenge. Immediate gratification always leaves me irritated. *shrugs* Personal preferences abound.

Mystery for sexual gratification as a reader, or on a deeper level? So in getting back to a question posed after your post . . . if there is the element of reality - self-reflexivity if you will - does the intensity of the SM session loose it's lustre, and if so, is the need to make the chapter sexual in nature unnecessary?

Mystery for the reader yes, but not solely for the purpose of sexual gratification. It might be a cheap trick, but mystery is one of the most sure-fire ways to lead a reader through any flaming hoops you decide to place before them. It's why reality television is so popular. We want to know just what's going to happen next and once we're invested in the characters we'll follow them damn near anywhere, no mattere how unbelievable. (Shallow sheep that we are... )

Do I think that if a scene occurs in a prettily appointed bedroom instead of a dungeon that there's any difference in what they're experiencing at the hands of a Dom/me? Nope. Do I think that if a scene is devoid of ropes, leather, swearing and custom-made devices of torture that it's suddenly going to be less intense? Nope. All of my interest lies in the characters and if they're believable/realistic to me then the power and intensity is still there. I'm not really arriving at a point, so maybe I've not completely understood the question of reality's involvement.

Hm. Hm. Hm. So if the unquenchable thirst of the protagonist is to attain balance, articulated through a "professional" SM scene, would the disinterest on the part of the Domme to maintain an SM lifestyle be detrimental to a more active and personal SM chapter that is in no way reflexive, but rather simply plays out later in the story?

Am I understanding right that the Domme is strictly "at work" and has no real inner sadistic desires? And if that's the case, would it hamper the believability or intensity of any scene she's involved in?

I empathize with your struggle, believe me - lol - and feel free to hijack for anything you are working out. I just wanted to have a discussion about SM writing/reading, not simply or only about what I am trying to accomplish in my own writing.

Thanks Lucky.

I don't know that I'm ready to hijack just yet, but I may send you what I'm working on for grins if you're in the mood to hack. I think there's enough to cover here already.

~lucky

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Hey, Charley--

You're thinking too much.

Seriously, you're being too cerebral and analystical by half. You're going to be so worried about this and that that there's not going to be any heat.

Just write it and then show it to us.

---Zoot

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Re: Re: Re: BDSM writing

I've kind of come to the conclusion that what's really sexy about sex is what it says about the people doing it. In other words, sex is an expression of emotion, and the hottest stuff lets us feel what the other person is feeling emotionally. It reveals their personality and desires.

---dr.M.

I agree that this is the most powerful thing and something you're extremely adept at capturing, but it's a bit daunting to attempt to write from the power side of that situation for that very reason. Is it too telling to expose the inner thoughts/feelings of a Dom/me instead of illustrating them with actions which are always prone to some sliver of doubt as to what is truly behind them? Do you think it's possible to narrate through the eyes of the Dom/me and retain their strength/power/domination in the scene, vs. showing the progression a sub experiences?

~lucky

 

[patrick1]

For me the trickiest thing in writing erotica is to create drama and progression. In the best stories one or other of the main characters changes as a result of the events. Which is just the same as regular fiction. Too much erotica begins too late, when all the drama has happened and everyone agrees with everyone else. Result: no drama, no forward movement.

Otherwise, I agree with Dr M. You just have to experiment by trying to write fiction. If you theorise about it too much, you need to enrol for a PhD, not submit stories.

patrick

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Hey, Charley--

You're thinking too much.

---Zoot

I don't think she ever gets enough of being analytical.

~lucky

 

[CharleyH]

Hey, Charley--

You're thinking too much.

Seriously, you're being too cerebral and analystical by half. You're going to be so worried about this and that that there's not going to be any heat.

Just write it and then show it to us.

---Zoot

LOL - I'm trying for god sake!

 

[LadyJeanne]

Something I notice about BDSM stories is there can be a lack of humor and affection between the characters.

I realize that BDSM taps into deep emotions and needs, and the action is intended to push those buttons. However, I believe that it works better if the couple actually cares about each other's needs, understands them, and then uses that understanding to tease and please. Intensity is crucial, but I like to see a little playful, affectionate intensity - sex is fun, right?

I tried to infuse my current story with a sense of fun, and to make sure it came through to the reader that, while there's some d/s going on, it's going on because those two really want to please each other. I specifically wrote it that way because I had recently been disappointed to read a string of stories which just seemed, I dunno, kind of cold and flat.

If you really want insights, you might want to spend a little time in the BDSM forum threads - they cover a lot of ground and I believe there's a professional Dominatrix or two who post there. Otherwise, I'd say Doc is right - write your story the way you want without thinking too much about how it's supposed to be. BDSM means different things to everyone.

 

[CharleyH]

I don't think she ever gets enough of being analytical.

~lucky

Which becomes the punishment for everyone else LOL

I am also just asking questions for the hell of it because I think there are many authors here who might like to give an SM write a whirl. In fact I am willing to bet on it

Its one thing to play SM out in RL, but I think quite another to write it, and certainly I think there are dynamics in an SM write that greatly diverge for the, well, erotic couple/lesbian/gay write.

LuckyIs it too telling to expose the inner thoughts/feelings of a Dom/me instead of illustrating them with actions which are always prone to some sliver of doubt as to what is truly behind them? Do you think it's possible to narrate through the eyes of the Dom/me and retain their strength/power/domination in the scene, vs. showing the progression a sub experiences?

These are exactly the kinds of questions that are important, I think, and the kinds of issues I am trying to raise - where I am trying to take this thread, and LOL - I need more time to think.

 

[MLyons]

BDSM means different things to everyone.

I've been PMing CharleyH and I'm in much the same boat that she is--trying to do "research" for a BDSM story that I'm writing.

I think this quote is what I'm really getting out of this discussion. BDSM is, to say the least, fascinating, especially to someone like me who simply does not live that kind of lifestyle, but has fantasies that dabble in it.

Some hate the pain aspects, some love it. Some hate humiliation, some love it. I think the essence of BDSM, and what I find gets lost in so many by-the-numbers, lifestyle oriented, BDSM stories is the uniqueness of character--the individual urges and desires of specific people in specific situations. What drives them to seek a relationship such as this, no matter what specific actions the dom and sub engage in? The process of discovery, the mistakes, and the consequences, and finding your way in the relationship, whatever form it takes is what makes the dynamics of well-written BDSM so fabulously fascinating--and revealing of a less explored aspect of human nature.

As Charley said to me, "so many layers" and BDSM especially lends itself to lots of complicated layers that I think are worth exploring, and I see nothing wrong with being analytical about that, if at the same time, you can manage not to get mired in reasons and explanations in the telling of the story.

I think the best way to go about it is to write what feels right. Whether what you come up with fits into someone else's definition of a BDSM relationship isn't as important as whether or not it's an interesting story that is true the the characters you're creating. But I'm a very character oriented wriiter who is notorious for questioning the conventions of "genre", so take all that as you will.

This is an excellent, and timely (for me) thread!

 

[CharleyH]

For me the trickiest thing in writing erotica is to create drama and progression. In the best stories one or other of the main characters changes as a result of the events. Which is just the same as regular fiction. Too much erotica begins too late, when all the drama has happened and everyone agrees with everyone else. Result: no drama, no forward movement.

Otherwise, I agree with Dr M. You just have to experiment by trying to write fiction. If you theorise about it too much, you need to enrol for a PhD, not submit stories.

patrick

Yes, I understand Patrick. As what I am writing is a novel and not a short story, there are many factors I need to keep in mind, or be lost to the deluge of my own semiotics so to speak. I want correct characters, and as Lucky and Zoot both know, I do over-analyse with much joy. I appreciate your view and would like to know more, since you do take a somewhat opposite view - well, not opposite, but you say that much erotica begins too late. What do you mean by this? What do you find cliche' about SM writing and what do you mean drama? In synthesis with suspense, or on a different angle from it?

 

[CharleyH]

I tried to infuse my current story with a sense of fun, and to make sure it came through to the reader that, while there's some d/s going on, it's going on because those two really want to please each other. I specifically wrote it that way because I had recently been disappointed to read a string of stories which just seemed, I dunno, kind of cold and flat.

If you really want insights, you might want to spend a little time in the BDSM forum threads - they cover a lot of ground and I believe there's a professional Dominatrix or two who post there. Otherwise, I'd say Doc is right - write your story the way you want without thinking too much about how it's supposed to be. BDSM means different things to everyone. [/B]

Thanks Lady. I am familiar with the BDSM forum, et al, but what I am more interested in is, if you don't mind at all, explaining what you mean by cold and flat. What was missing that had such an effect, and what was the reaction from readers to your story?

I really believe, and this is diverging, that once you post for public view, it is in fact no longer about I am writing for me. Perhaps, a different discussion. Perhaps this is what is getting me bogged down. (I have talked to professionals for research) but the question is, hm, actually, I just figured it out posting to you. Nonetheless, I am still interested in knowing your thoughts on my questions.

 

[CharleyH]

As Charley said to me, "so many layers" and BDSM especially lends itself to lots of complicated layers that I think are worth exploring, and I see nothing wrong with being analytical about that, if at the same time, you can manage not to get mired in reasons and explanations in the telling of the story.

Thanks M (blushing) and for your advice and conversation. Yet I think you do raise the question inadvertantly, am I thinking too much? I love Zoots stories, he has a beautiful way of expression, of making me taste everything word by beautiful word, and yet in a greater context, the dynamics of SM writing, (and it is my opinion that sadism and masochism as terms and theories do not actually go together as pop culture would have one believe) do need to be thought out.

The ill thought fantasies of beginner SM writers for example, (nothing wrong with that) and I know Zoot gets pissed off with them! lol. There, a fantasy, played on paper - I/you blah, you know what I am talking about so back to the original question, worded differently, where are the mistakes in SM writing? How can writer's avoid the pitfalls? We have pointed out, I think, some of the eloquence of writing BDSM, but lets get dirty. What sucks? What is dull and uninteresting, cliche'? Because I think we all have a common ground even if not obvious.

I, for example, would pause to admire the beauty of a mark on a body, sticken with precision, administered not for anyone elses pleasure but my own appreciation of sculpture. What worries me in SM? Too much he said, he did, he said but no action. Does one get into the mind of a Domme/Dom or is all SM written for, and with the sub in mind? Is this the only pleasure? Lucky hits it on the nose, I think.

I think she has raised a few excellent questions that demand answers.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Thanks Lady. I am familiar with the BDSM forum, et al, but what I am more interested in is, if you don't mind at all, explaining what you mean by cold and flat. What was missing that had such an effect, and what was the reaction from readers to your story?

I really believe, and this is diverging, that once you post for public view, it is in fact no longer about I am writing for me. Perhaps, a different discussion. Perhaps this is what is getting me bogged down. (I have talked to professionals for research) but the question is, hm, actually, I just figured it out posting to you. Nonetheless, I am still interested in knowing your thoughts on my questions.

Ah, cold and flat - hard to explain. Flat is a focus on the mechanics without showing why those people are together in the first place. Cold are stories that don't show that the characters are indulging in each other's desires, and in fulfilling them for each other. What may be missing is the 'yen' for each other that allows them to fully explore each other's sexual psyches to please each other.

Readers' reactions to my story really made me happy as they seemed to get what I was trying to do. I received comments like 'fun story' and 'playfully erotic' and my favorite, 'I completely relate to how she feels about her man, submitting to him and pleasing him. Makes it all the better for her!' I would add that it makes it all the better for him to please her too.

JMHO - I'm not expert and there are way better stories out there than mine.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: BDSM writing

...

Is it too telling to expose the inner thoughts/feelings of a Dom/me instead of illustrating them with actions which are always prone to some sliver of doubt as to what is truly behind them? Do you think it's possible to narrate through the eyes of the Dom/me and retain their strength/power/domination in the scene, vs. showing the progression a sub experiences?

~lucky

Okay: I've been very politely trying to resist trumpeting my own work, but you leave me no choice but to resort to the old plugola.

My story "Idyll: A Sex Scene"

http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=135617

is first-person POV from the Dom's perspective, and was my attempt to describe my sensations during a BDSM session, albeit an alarmingly mild one.

There's no whipping, no clamps or hot candle wax or clothespins, just erotic restraint, but I was really trying to explore what appealed to me as a dom in the piece; what seeing her tied up made me feel.

I think you might be disappointed though, because I'm not into S&M, and there's nothing really narcissistic about my domness (domnitude?). It's rather like a symbolic expression of my need to possess her; to hold her captive while I get my fill of her.

I know that Charley's writing about a female domme, however, and a professional to boot, so I can't attest to their motivation, but I assume it shares some features with male domness.

It may seem paradoxical to punish something because you love it too much, but that's the idea I keep on coming back to in my BDSM writing: the idea of overwhelming the love object, of capturing her, of forcing her to want me as much as I want her. That's what I try to express in my story.

---dr.M

 

[bridgeburner]

I haven't read a lot of the BDSM stories here at Lit and the main reason is that they're often too samey-same and many of them are boring.

There are a lot of reasons for this. Some of it is the too-perfect "look" of things: Everyone is beautiful and looks great in leather --- hell, everyone is wearing leather. Some of it is the "insta-kink" set up of them: Every Dom has elaborate bondage furniture or all players have all the right tools. Some of it- perhaps even most of it is the sameness of the characters: All Dom's are in total and perfect control of everything all the time and know exactly how to elicit the desire response from a sub. While all subs are solely focused on how they can better please the Dom or what they might've done to be punished.

Dr. M's piece represents what I believe is a minority of stories --- those written from the Dom's POV. Just as almost all of the non-consent stories are written from the POV of the debauched rather than the debaucher. I've got some theories about why that is but that would take us pretty far afield from the current topic. At any rate I applaud his departure from the norm.

I've never formally Topped anyone in my life, but I can't imagine that "real" Doms never have doubts, never wonder over what the best tactic is to get what they desire. What if you really want to make the sub come and you can't? What if you want the sub's focus and can't get it? What if you want to top a partner who responds adversely to pain or even to blatant domination? What if you're faced with the challenge of a partner who just isn't in the right head-space for the usual scene -- all the things that usually work aren't working.

I think for a Pro-Domme these questions must get asked more often than for one who is in a committed relationship. The professional may know very little about her client. She may have interviewed a client exhaustively only to find out that the client's answers were impaired because the client didn't know himself what really turns him on.

The discovery of the right "buttons" to push, the conflict of perhaps not being all that interested in going to "work" at that particular moment, all of these things are fascinating. They may or may not induce arousal in the reader, but they are interesting questions and explorations regardless of arousal.

I think your first focus should be to write a compelling story --- regardless of its BDSM overtones. Cliches in writing tend to span all genres. Certainly there are specific cliches for BDSM but it's mainly just the trappings. An undeveloped character is an undeveloped character whether she's dressed as a cheerleader or staked out on the golf-course in a ball-gag and boots.


-B

 

[CharleyH]

You'll excuse the bump. I think Dr. M raises something interesting, as does BridgeBurner - just getting foggy for a Friday night, and I will revisit tomorrow, but anyone who wants to play on this thread for now, go for it! You'll get yours

 

[herecomestherain]

CharleyH just a thought on some of your questions and research, you might enjoy and find interesting some of the writings of folks who keep blogs. A scroll through the one below (past the last few entries) reveals a lot of the thoughts of a dom in a loving relationship, could provide some extra background.

http://www.letterstoanangel.com/

Mistress Matisse could also help with your characters.

http://mistressmatisse.blogspot.com/

 

[CharleyH]

I have been giving this thread more thought (Sorry Doc M - LOL). Certainly, it is not that I do not know about the dynamics of BDSM, or that I cannot write it (as a believer in everything is possible) but it is a question of understanding the characters in my story.

I have a tendancy, in more in-depth pieces, to write in a kind of Stanislovsky way . . . getting into the core of each character, what motivates them, makes them tick, blah, blah, blah. In re-reading posts, I realize that it is the submissive mind that I have never been clear on. In order to have two characters interact, I think it's important to be able to articulate both pov's clearly.

D/s, S/m, particularly S/m has always represented opposite ends of the spectrum to me, conflictual and unable to co-exist since the wants are diametrically opposed. I was holding this thought and weighing all other dichotomies on the basis of this: fantasy/reality, culture/nature, night/day, Dionysis/Apollo, de Sade/Masoch and suddenly, here at 6 am, I thought of the play by Jean Genet, Les Bonnes (The Maids).

Certainly, on a level, this play is about these dichotomies, and yet there is a common thread - a similarity to the sadistic/dominant vs. masochistic/ submissive mind:

The desire for Freedom.

So easy. So perfect.

Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[Kassiana]

I currently have an idea simmering for a BDSM story from the viewpoint of a submissive going to her first BDSM convention. The problem so far is (a) getting the time to write it, as I'm getting busy with holiday stuff and my husband's been taking up more and more time on the computer since he got an Internet radio station DJ position and (b) convincing myself that, as someone who's never been to one and may never be to one, I can write a believable story about this woman's experience.

Oh, and she's not overwhelmingly beautiful or wildly uninhibited. I guess on those counts, I'm not doing too badly, at least from what I see here.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I have a tendancy, in more in-depth pieces, to write in a kind of Stanislovsky way . . . getting into the core of each character, what motivates them, makes them tick, blah, blah, blah. In re-reading posts, I realize that it is the submissive mind that I have never been clear on. In order to have two characters interact, I think it's important to be able to articulate both pov's clearly.

D/s, S/m, particularly S/m has always represented opposite ends of the spectrum to me, conflictual and unable to co-exist since the wants are diametrically opposed. I was holding this thought and weighing all other dichotomies on the basis of this: fantasy/reality, culture/nature, night/day, Dionysis/Apollo, de Sade/Masoch and suddenly, here at 6 am, I thought of the play by Jean Genet, Les Bonnes (The Maids).

Certainly, on a level, this play is about these dichotomies, and yet there is a common thread - a similarity to the sadistic/dominant vs. masochistic/ submissive mind:

The desire for Freedom.

So easy. So perfect.

Anyone agree or disagree?

I'd be very careful when you start talking about “dominant/submissive" kinds of mindsets. It invokes the erroneous stereotype that dominant and submissive are personality types, which they’re not, no more than homosexual or heterosexual are personality types. The simplistic view is that doms have huge egos and subs have problems with feelings of self-worth. That may be true on occasion, but in my experience it’s absolutely false.

Being dominant or submissive is a sex role and has little to do with personality type or character. From my own experiences I can say that most of the female subs I’ve known were anything but submissive or masochistic in their outside lives. These were highly capable and accomplished women, often in positions of considerable power in their work and normal relationships. There certainly are some subs who think of themselves as human floor mats and masochistic pain-sluts, but I’ve never been involved with one, nor would I want to. To appreciate the feeling of someone giving up control to you as a dom, there has to be something to give up to start with. I don’t want my partner to grovel; I want her to soar.

There’s lots of ways to understand the D/s dynamic. There’s the aspect of symbolically suffering for love and giving yourself entirely. There’s the idea of pain as being normal sensation raised to the nth degree. There are the power-exchange aspects. And yes, there's a lot of freedom that comes from being tied up, like the freedom that comes from being compelled to perform all sorts of sex acts without the shame that comes from taking responsibility for ones actions. There’s the idea that D/s as a kind of inverted female worship. And then there’s the view that D/s is simply a ritualized expression of the archetypal male/female sexual drama exaggerated to the level of caricature.

I've come to believe in this last one more and more. It's almost like we're hardwired to expect the male to take what he wants by force, and in the BDSM context I think women find it exciting to be the object of a man's raging lust, a lust that transcends the normal laws of polite society. Certainly I think that's the reason that so many women enjoy forced-sex fantasies. The archetypal female sexual fantasy is that she's so desriable that men will stop at nothing to have her. (The archetypal male sexual fantasy is that woman just become nymphomaniacal in his presence.)

But there’s one thing I know for certain, and that’s that the pain in sexual S&M is symbolic. It’s an expression of deeper feelings, not just an attempt to hurt someone. (As they sais in some BDSM book I read, the face of a woman in pain is the same as her face in orgasm.) If all that were involved were inflicting pain, then just punching the sub in the stomach or socking her in the jaw would be considered sexy, which is most definitely not the case.

The idea that there is a dom- and a sub-type personality is just dead wrong in my experience, and I think the more you try to approach this subject rationally, trying to reason things out, the farther off-base you’re going to get. The truths of BDSM are emotional truths. They can be described, but they can’t be reasoned out in rational terms. You've got to go in there and put yourself inthe sub's place and see for yourself why she finds it exciting, and that's an ability every dom should have.

---dr.M.