BDSM writing

[CharleyH]

I'd be very careful when you start talking about “dominant/submissive" kinds of mindsets.

Totally not packaging it into a limited black and white vision, but rather creating symbolic dichotomies which interweave back and forth thru my story. I had a greater point. This is that I have never been able to see sadism and masochism as anything but counter to eachother. They have different desires, and I have never seen a commonality prior to this morning, and I believe the desire for freedom is the commonality.

This I have come to determine both from certain things said in the course of this thread, my own experiences, and the blatent question I once asked a sub when he articulated, what was to me, a bizarre and exceptionally frightening masochistic desire. His response was 'it would make me feel free.' I do not know why, since it has rung in my head for over a year, I did not see this before.

I go back to your sentiment of unbound sexuality. I think of Lucky's unleashing of darker desires . . . is it not the physical fantasy manifestation of freedom?

There are degree's, certainly in each of us, the balance of yin and yang, and I believe this is the crisis of my character - repression of one side in favour of the other, and the quest to retrieve this balance. In this context, it is tangible to me for 'this' story.

It is a dominant theme in many genres I think . . . the attainment of balance - the struggle of good and evil, dark and light and in the context of BDSM genre, control and its opposite. (exceptionally simplified, there is much more to it than this).

I have been with many subs who indeed have many problems. I have seen just as many doms with just as many problems, and I have experienced those who are quite balanced, but lets face it, a 'character' that is balanced to begin with does not necessarily a good conflict make.

On paper, in narrative, in order to articulate deeper character traits there needs to be dichotomies. Whithout, there is no struggle or conflict, and there is not compelling narrative. Perhaps where certain BDSM stories fail is the inability to form these dichotomies, these blacks and whites into shades of intertwining colour?

From my own experiences I can say that most of the female subs I’ve known were anything but submissive or masochistic in their outside lives.

Yes - agree. The female who desires submission, and seeks the Dominatrix in my story is in fact an executive. Certainly, she'd not have gotten there by being passive. Yet again, dichotomy within a given character to escape (or be free) from the constraints of appearances: Persona/shadow, a running theme. Just as the lead character comes to discover her own unleashing of sorts, in anti to all she knows, (control etc.) and the difficulty of her submission, not to another, but to her own emotions/ self/ desires . . . to give up control of herself to herself, I suppose.

I have read many stories here, in this category, and the most common mistake I see is exactly what you point out: human floor mats and masochistic pain-sluts.

But there’s one thing I know for certain, and that’s that the pain in sexual S&M is symbolic. It’s an expression of deeper feelings, not just an attempt to hurt someone.

I am very well aware of this, too well aware, and I do understand in my experience, the depth at which this delves. I do also believe however, that there is a depth from the side of sadism as well, a similar, but not same freedom. The story of the Domme, is she made or born? (I quote Shanglan, I think.)

Analytical? Perhaps, but there are so many layers in writing, just as there are so many layers on a canvass. My avoidance is the black and white, and clarity in my mind takes shape in the exchange of ideas, through discussions such as these with writers like yourself.

There is a certain difficulty or apprehension in writing SM I think, and MLyons does raise this issue. In any other genre there is sucking and fucking, and this motivates reading further (totally simplistic assessment I know) but this genre, BDSM offers the most intricate of desires way beyond sucking and fucking, and that's why it is an intriguing discussion. The pleasures are not simple, nor are they the same for anyone.

What I am attempting to do is understand my character in this story, not in RL, and in doing so make my understanding clear for any who might read this story, and in this I am certain that my intellectualizing and mapping will help me get it right. My best stories are written this way, my worst are written without as much thought and to me it is obvious. (edit - it is obvious in my writing).

What is fascinating and worthwhile in raising questions or simply making statements, or over-intellectualizing, as you will, is the sharing of perspectives, experiences, and difficulties with this or any genre. It stimulates a wealth of ideas, and makes a mind like mine fly in so many different directions . . . soar, if you will.

The truths of BDSM are emotional truths. They can be described, but they can’t be reasoned out in rational terms.

On this first part I whole heartedly agree, yet I must disagree on the latter. Anything with an emotional base has it's root in reason. And in not being aware of the reasons for a particular desire, a dom runs the risk of damaging their submissive.

 

[patrick1]

I feel you are mixing up writing a scene, which is how the thread began, with moralising and rationalising about a certain kind of relationship. I write a lot of fiction and drama, most of it nothing to do with bdsm. To write scenes, you need to have some key feelings about the wants of each character, but you also need to dive in to their encounters and see what happens. Looks like time to dive in to me. I'll be absolutely amazed if they turn out to have an entirely rational base to their emotions

p

 

[CharleyH]

I feel you are mixing up writing a scene, which is how the thread began, with moralising and rationalising about a certain kind of relationship. I write a lot of fiction and drama, most of it nothing to do with bdsm. To write scenes, you need to have some key feelings about the wants of each character, but you also need to dive in to their encounters and see what happens. Looks like time to dive in to me. I'll be absolutely amazed if they turn out to have an entirely rational base to their emotions

p

Thanks Patrick. You have misunderstood or I have not made myself clear . . . and the goal is ultimately, clarity.

 

[KarenAM]

I tend to write d/s type stuff and find that my work falls into two broad categories, which I call slave stuff and sub stuff.

Slave stuff gets its dramatic tension from the use of non-consent. A lot of the paraphanalia surrounding BDSM carries with it implications of power of one person over another, including sexual control. It's a variant on the rape fantasy and in such stories the submissive is overwhelmed against his/her will. That the sub winds up enjoying the experience, even craving it, does not change the basic recognition of this essential ethical problem, which helps keep the drama in the story up even when the slave has been a slave for a long, long time.

These sorts of stories allow me to explore issues of power and manipulation as well as the erotic. The project that is occupying my time these days, for example, is heavily influenced by the way the recent election was run and the way politics, society and religion exploit us, using sexual power and domination as an allegory.

Here on Lit., these are my Adhal/Usahar/Taiyiha stories.

Sub stuff differs in that it involves consent by the submissive. This approach allows me to explore the psychology of dominance and submission. In this work responsibility is shared between dom and sub (the dom has the reponsibility of control, and the sub has the responsibility of trust), as it is in healthy d/s relationships, with each giving the other what they want and need.

"Coming Home" is this sort of story.

As to cliches, I agree with those who say that an emphasis on what is happening rather than what the characters are feeling is the big one. BDSM is often highly ritualized, but when these rituals take over the story, the story gets dull quickly.

 

[patrick1]

Charley, well, I was quarrelling with 'Anything with an emotional base has its root in reason.' I don't run with this. But I do agree one needs to saunter up to a character, looking at them from all sides. My favourites among my characters have contradictions inexplicable even to themselves, though I feel I know why they feel that way.

patrick