BDSM vs Lovemaking

[FurryFury]

Before I knew that terms like BDSM existed, that I was kinky and accepted myself, I was nilla. I was not into making love which sounds very overblown but I was very into sex and fucking. I still am now that I've embraced my kinky self.

Women in this society have been taught that sex should only go along with love. That is an absolute falsehood but like the idea that we should want marriage many of us bought that, at least for a while.

My first real sexual relationship I was "in love" with someone who basically couldn't have sex if I consented. He threw me away three times in our dating years. Each time I found a different partner very quickly. I found out that sex and love are not always connected. That was a very good thing to know.

Too bad I was still hung on on being "in love" with my abuser. I did have to develop fantasies that allowed me to come so he would stop. So happy that's over though it took ten years.

So happy to be with at man that allows me to love him in healthy ways and can have sex when I want to rather than it being rape like my ex.

I don't have intimacy issues. I still feel the term "making love" is stupid and overblown. It does nothing for me but in a sense I feel that my husband and I make love every day, in everything we do for one another as part of our non sexual lives.

And yes, as Stella said, "making love" does nothing for me sexually, never has. Nothing. I need something else to be happy and fulfilled.

FF

 

[Licia]

This reflects how I see it.....I've sensed a sort of impatience on the part of quite a few folks with the concept of "making love." Lovemaking seems to be an activity many folks don't want to take part in. It's too soft. I feel like there's something else entirely going on in BDSM activity......a single-minded pursuit of sensation at all costs, whether it hurts or feels good.
Understand, I am a total "virgin" in regards to BDSM activity. I have no experience to base my thoughts on......only reactions to what I hear and read.
For me to tell folks in the lifestyle about their own experience is ludicrous, and perhaps even insulting.

*delurks*

Making love. Being married for nearly 13 years I can say that making love fits into my "it's okay" category. Making love can be very sweet, but it has never coaxed an orgasm from me. The act does feel good physically and emotionally. It does not fulfill me, though.

BDSM is an entirely different realm of intimacy for us which goes beyond making love. We get to experience the entire person through our play: fear, lust, anger, vulnerability, ego, euphoria, gender empathy, power dynamics, and love. I would agree with Stella that probably some folks hide in their bondage activities regardless of the role they play, and I think that's fine, too. *shrugs* Sometimes that specific disconnect cements all the unspoken and leaves a sense of peace. As far as I'm concerned, this world could use more people feeling peaceful.

Polyamory is something I find more normative in society than we would like to admit. As human beings the people in our lives tend to fufill different parts of our emotional well being: friends, relatives, co-workers... We don't necessarily have sex with those people, but they still can satisfy needs which a partner cannot. When stepping into the realm of sexual polyamory all parties recognize that everyone has different needs, and all are concerned with filling the entirety of each person.

 

[Netzach]

I've had similar situations to you, Wenchie.

I deal with it pretty much how JM & Netz suggest. If someone shows interest in me, I casually mention that I've actually fallen into a poly arrangement of sorts that is meeting my needs. It has taken me 40 years to find myself, and those men; I will not give either of them up. Period. Full stop. We may not always be lovers, but I will not give them up. Accept it; or if you can't, accept that we will not be a good fit.

The thing with Arizona J and Dallas J is long and complicated (even though it really isn't), but I'm insanely lucky that they are who they are. Arizona J actually ambiguously-ish ended things (very poorly) last December, and it was quite a hiccup in the friendship... I ended up curled up in bed with Dallas J one night crying about it, actually. LOL

For a month or two I was more open to the idea of dating, if I had to, and ended up having dinner with people off Fet once or twice. My Fet profile just says I'm straight, without any D/s or relationship status, because it's no one's business... but within the first or third [unsolicited] email, I would make a point to mention The Men™, and that quite frankly attending to the needs and desires of two is quiet enough - but I'm always happy to entertain new platonic friendships.

Sometimes that would be the end of things right there, sometimes it would take another week or two, sometimes they would completely ignore the concept of The Men™ even existing. One guy was really nice and interesting, and swore he was looking for a platonic friend, not even interested in playing... until he found a submissive two weeks later, and was suddenly unable to grab dinner like we'd talked about. LOL I did see one guy off Fet for a bit; it wasn't working for me. He never really got the fact that I had The Men™, was happy with them, and wasn't looking to add anyone. One night [after 4-5 dates] he actually got huffy and asked me if I could at least PRETEND to be in a relationship with him, just for ego's sake? No. (I stopped even pretending to try to date after that mess.)

Two weeks ago Arizona J owned up on the poor way he handled ending things last December, and we rediscussed it with a little more emotional honesty. I told him I'd think about it, and talked it over with Dallas J earlier this week. Dallas J's gut opinion was the same as mine - My friendship with Arizona J is good for me, and that relationship is free to develop organically *as long as everyone involved agrees to own their own shit*.

I've already gotten lectures from people at work for staying friends with someone after a break up, and questions about when I'm going to settle down, or comments about how I let them take advantage of me by being so accommodating, etc... I usually just say "Okay. Well, i know it's unconventional but they make me blissfully happy, and for me that supersedes everything else, but thank you for your concern."

Oh, I have an alarm system in place too. Harsh as it is, you make an ultimatum on someone else, you lose me. It keeps me responsible to myself at the end of the day - the ultimatum is the expression of not really being OK with it no matter what else is said. A person who would give me an ultimatum is someone who would control me, and I don't do control like that.

 

[Primalex]

I absolutely, positively refuse to fuck someone unless we have a rock solid friendship.

And the few times it is "just fucking" I always find myself thinking "WTH am I doing here?

Now what?

 

[Azalea]

Wow, I am disturbed. I am not really making love when we have sex, because my mind is a milliong miles away, centering on fantasies that have nothing to do with my partner. That's not making love....that's using him.

I need to work my way back to being fully present to him during sex. I started to have this revelation on another thread......things are coming together in my mind, about myself. I need to concentrate totally on serving his needs, seeing to it that he has maximum pleasure and feels utterly drenched in loving care. Then my own thing can follow.

More later.....gotta examine myself further.

 

[Netzach]

Wow, I am disturbed. I am not really making love when we have sex, because my mind is a milliong miles away, centering on fantasies that have nothing to do with my partner. That's not making love....that's using him.


Casual poll here folks - if there are any men here who have never done this, please represent.

If you want to feel crappy about this and you want every instance of intimacy to be about bonding and transparency and all that stuff more power to you, but I don't think most people haven't done this and I know for a fact most men do this frequently and don't feel the least bit wrong over it.

Don't you think it's OK if maybe a part of sex, at least, is about you?

As for the rest of the convo, go figure, I get a lot of mileage out of sweet soft stare into each other's eyes reverent attention sex. I just need lots of options or I start to feel the prison walls.

 

[Primalex]

Casual poll here folks - if there are any men here who have never done this, please represent.

Let's say I don't know for sure, but right now I don't remember a case. My fantasies do revolve around my partner. Of course, the fantasies of my wife again don't revolve around me. That's perfect, more food for the humiliation.

 

[Netzach]

Let's say I don't know for sure, but right now I don't remember a case. My fantasies do revolve around my partner. Of course, the fantasies of my wife again don't revolve around me. That's perfect, more food for the humiliation.

Cool. There are always exceptions, I totally haven't talked to everyone on earth. The way people fantasize is really gonzo also, some people don't even think in terms of other people at all, my own tend to be very impressionistic.

But a LOT, and I mean a LOT of dudes are mentally in multiple locales at the big moment, I think - the difference is that I think they tend to be less wracked with guilt about this fairly normal thing.

 

[intothewoods]

Wow, I am disturbed. I am not really making love when we have sex, because my mind is a milliong miles away, centering on fantasies that have nothing to do with my partner. That's not making love....that's using him.


Casual poll here folks - if there are any men here who have never done this, please represent.

If you want to feel crappy about this and you want every instance of intimacy to be about bonding and transparency and all that stuff more power to you, but I don't think most people haven't done this and I know for a fact most men do this frequently and don't feel the least bit wrong over it.

Don't you think it's OK if maybe a part of sex, at least, is about you?

As for the rest of the convo, go figure, I get a lot of mileage out of sweet soft stare into each other's eyes reverent attention sex. I just need lots of options or I start to feel the prison walls.

I totally agree. In fact, you can get the relationship of your dreams and it doesn't mean that every session of sex will be an expression of your utmost devotion to each other. Or maybe it will be, because you're tired and you give a great blow job anyway. But I digress...

I suspect the poster's decision to center her thoughts on his pleasure are actually going to help her get off...but I could be wrong.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh, I have an alarm system in place too. Harsh as it is, you make an ultimatum on someone else, you lose me. It keeps me responsible to myself at the end of the day - the ultimatum is the expression of not really being OK with it no matter what else is said. A person who would give me an ultimatum is someone who would control me, and I don't do control like that.

Absolutely this. And I have had people try this on me-- I can drop all the loving connection I've developed with someone in a hot minute. I don't do ultimatums.

I suspect the poster's decision to center her thoughts on his pleasure are actually going to help her get off...but I could be wrong.

I bet you're right.

 

[knot_sweet]

It's been said in this thread already; sex and BDSM and lovemaking are never going to mean the same thing to everyone.

But as long as they mean the same thing to the people involved in the relationship, it doesn't matter what everyone else's ideas are.

For me, and my relationship/s; When I was much younger, sex was all about fun, passion, laughter, having a good time.

Then I fell in love and sex became more than that. It still had all that, but it had the extra element of love behind every moment.

He and I didn't work out. My fault. I'm still sorry about it.

Moving on, I discovered an interest in BDSM. Again, it was about intensity and fun. The problems came about when I realised I was feeling more than that.

BDSM seems to tap right into the core of me. The bit in the middle filled with untainted joy and love. For me, it becomes impossible to play casually with anyone. I can't separate the things the person playing with me makes me feel from feeling them about that person. It has caused troubles in the past and I've learned to be much more careful about who I let into my kinky self because of it.

I guess, in a nutshell, for me sex becomes lovemaking if I love the person. D/s is always lovemaking.

 

[njlauren]

*delurks*

Making love. Being married for nearly 13 years I can say that making love fits into my "it's okay" category. Making love can be very sweet, but it has never coaxed an orgasm from me. The act does feel good physically and emotionally. It does not fulfill me, though.

BDSM is an entirely different realm of intimacy for us which goes beyond making love. We get to experience the entire person through our play: fear, lust, anger, vulnerability, ego, euphoria, gender empathy, power dynamics, and love. I would agree with Stella that probably some folks hide in their bondage activities regardless of the role they play, and I think that's fine, too. *shrugs* Sometimes that specific disconnect cements all the unspoken and leaves a sense of peace. As far as I'm concerned, this world could use more people feeling peaceful.

Polyamory is something I find more normative in society than we would like to admit. As human beings the people in our lives tend to fufill different parts of our emotional well being: friends, relatives, co-workers... We don't necessarily have sex with those people, but they still can satisfy needs which a partner cannot. When stepping into the realm of sexual polyamory all parties recognize that everyone has different needs, and all are concerned with filling the entirety of each person.

The book "50 shades of Gray" specifically the character of Christian Gray, is all about someone who only can have a relationship through BD/SM, that he is so screwed up that he cannot stand intimacy and BD/SM is a way to control things so someone doesn't violate his space. There are people who only relate through D/s,BD/SM or only can achieve intimacy through that, which to be honest concerns me, because then to me it is more like a crutch then an expression of who we are, as a facet of who we are...but that is me, if that gets them to where they need to be, well, that's theirs.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The book "50 shades of Gray" specifically the character of Christian Gray, is all about someone who only can have a relationship through BD/SM, that he is so screwed up that he cannot stand intimacy and BD/SM is a way to control things so someone doesn't violate his space. There are people who only relate through D/s,BD/SM or only can achieve intimacy through that, which to be honest concerns me, because then to me it is more like a crutch then an expression of who we are, as a facet of who we are...but that is me, if that gets them to where they need to be, well, that's theirs.

My advice?

Don't let it concern you. It doesn't concern you. Honest.

And don't assume you know D/s because you read some fiction written by a fiction writer.

 

[midwestyankee]

Netz's casual poll

I can't keep my mind in one place when I'm trying to meditate in the quiet of the morning. How the hell am I supposed to keep it in one place with the four zillion bits of mental stimulation that hit my brain during sex? Is this a trick question?

 

[CutieMouse]

Netz's casual poll -

My mind isn't a million miles away, but The Men™ and I all find it convenient and amusing that they both have the same first name. It avoids all the awkwardness of accidentally saying the wrong name at the wrong time. Not that I've ever actually done that...

*looks sideways & whistles innocently*

 

[Curiousfromfar]

is it possible for a man who is submissive to assume a dom role?

 

[Primalex]

is it possible for a man who is submissive to assume a dom role?

This has exactly WHAT to do with the topic?

 

[Curiousfromfar]

This has exactly WHAT to do with the topic?

I´m sorry didn´t know where to ask

 

[Azalea]

Start a new thread.

 

[njlauren]

My advice?

Don't let it concern you. It doesn't concern you. Honest.

And don't assume you know D/s because you read some fiction written by a fiction writer.

I used the character in 50 Shades of Gray as an example of someone who is using BD/SM as a crutch, I didn't say that was what D/s and such is like. For the record, I was/am into D/s and such personally, have been in lifestyle relationships and been around a lot of people who do it, so I am speaking from experience. I also had a therapist who was into D/s and she said similar things, that there were people into it who were doing so as a crutch. Unless you are going to argue that everyone into D/s or BD/SM is perfectly normal, that there aren't some people with issues, which is ridiculous (any population has its troubled people), I was talking about very specific instances. D/s is like anything else,like there are people who can't have real world relationships and only have 'cyber ones' *shrug*. As far as telling me it doesn't concern me it does in the same way I care about people who are abusing drugs or alcohol and the like, simply that my hope is they find a way to live without using something as a crutch but rather as part of a whole range of relating *shrug*.I was also careful to say that if someone is happy relating in such a way, if they feel it is the way they work best, more power to them, there was no judgement there.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

Can we just agree to love sex? Is that close enough?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Can we just agree to love sex? Is that close enough?

I'll agree with that!

 

[Kurokami]

Can we just agree to love sex? Is that close enough?

Let's be honest: is there anyone here who isn't flying the sex flag high?

 

[KoPilot]

My idea of lovemaking is laying in the palm of someone's hand, 50 feet from the ground and being threatened with death.

It's not "vs" to me... they're one in the same.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Let's be honest: is there anyone here who isn't flying the sex flag high?

Yes, several people here are not primarily concerned with sex, or are asexual.