Battle of the Alans

[Problem Child]

Dershowitz vs. Keyes.

I'm listening to their debate at Harvard on the benefits vs. the harm of organized religion from the middle of last year is on C-SPAN.

Keyes is an excellent speaker in a Hitlerian sense, but Dershowitz is kicking his ass in the logic department. Keyes is resorting to personal attacks on Dershowitz to whip the crowd up, and Dershowitz is getting defensive, but still winning.

Anyone watching it? See it last year? Bueller? Anyone?

"Where does our morality come from?" was one of the key questions in the debate. Keyes takes the position that morality comes from religion, and Dershowitz says that it comes from an innate sense of knowing what is right and wrong.

I happen to agree with Dershowitz. What do you think?

This thread is going nowhere, I can tell already.

 

[Angel]

I'm sorry. I missed the point of your thread. That av is distracting me.

 

[Guest]

All we need is the newsmedia to tell us what is right and wrong they are always right. just ask them!

 

[seXieleXie]

i can't really say where morality comes from originally but i think it is socially instilled. i don't think knowledge of right and wrong is innate per say, but it is deeply ingrained to the point where our responses are so automatic they feel instinctual.

 

[Marxist]

I saw it last year. Good stuff.


Keyes is a very impressive man in terms of his rhetorical skills. I've met him in person a couple of times and like his ideas, but not his style.


Dershowitz won the debate however hands down.

 

[Problem Child]

I'm sorry. I missed the point of your thread. That av is distracting me.

Bite my sack.

 

[Problem Child]

I saw it last year. Good stuff.


Keyes is a very impressive man in terms of his rhetorical skills. I've met him in person a couple of times and like his ideas, but not his style.


Dershowitz won the debate however hands down.

I agree. Every time he gave a speech when he ran for president, I would sit there and listen to the whole speech if I could, even though I disagreed with more than half of what he was saying. He did get under Dershowitz's skin several times, which was entertaining.

 

[Problem Child]

i can't really say where morality comes from originally but i think it is socially instilled. i don't think knowledge of right and wrong is innate per say, but it is deeply ingrained to the point where our responses are so automatic they feel instinctual.

I wonder if there are societies somewhere that have absolutely no religion. No Lava Gods, or Avocado Goddesses. Does the society just create its' own rules? It must.

What about animals? I've seen packs of chimps that have clearly defined social rules. Maybe not morality, per se, but a pretty good imitation of it. I'm sure they're not going to monkey church on sunday.

 

[patient1]

You mistake me for someone that watches tv

The only reason I'd have cable is for faster internet access.

Sounds like an interesting debate.They're both very intelligent. I'd spoil it by saying my bible tells me that knowledge of right & wrong started in the garden of eden. It also says I shouldn't speak ill of others. Where does Keyes get his Facts, anyway?

 

[Gingersnap]

I remember when I was little watching the ancient film called the "Bad Seed". I thought then, as I do now, that it is something beyond a belief in God that prompts our better behavior. I think it is the ability to empathize with people. To see the commonality of our frailness.

In that film the little girl was raised with religion and great example but evil won. Life like the film is awash with examples of this occurance. I think it is our connection with all life that derives the best we have from us. So yes it is innate and not religion.

 

[Laurel]

I missed that debate the first time around, and it looks like I missed the rebroadcast. Guess I'll have to shell out the cash at the C-SPAM bookstore and check it out.

I'm not sure morality is innate per se. Ever see small children together? They hit, they kick, they name call, they steal from each other...until adults tell them those acts are wrong. I think morality is man-made convention that enables us to live together in a society. Most religions & philosophies embody the some of the same components - the Golden Rule, for example - because a society in which everyone murdered, raped, and stole from each other wouldn't last very long.

 

[Problem Child]

I missed that debate the first time around, and it looks like I missed the rebroadcast. Guess I'll have to shell out the cash at the C-SPAM bookstore and check it out.

I'm not sure morality is innate per se. Ever see small children together? They hit, they kick, they name call, they steal from each other...until adults tell them those acts are wrong. I think morality is man-made convention that enables us to live together in a society. Most religions & philosophies embody the some of the same components - the Golden Rule, for example - because a society in which everyone murdered, raped, and stole from each other wouldn't last very long.

That's right. And as I remember it, the older chimps were teaching the younger chimps, of course.

This is all so simple. Religion is ultimately bad, and a waste of time. I didn't need to start a thread to know that, did I?

 

[Laurel]

When I was a kid, I really wanted a pet chimp. My parents wouldn't give me one. That's why I'm so messed up today.

 

[Problem Child]

When I was a kid, I really wanted a pet chimp. My parents wouldn't give me one. That's why I'm so messed up today.

So...you're saying if we all had pet chimps as kids, there would be no massive porn industry destroying the moral fiber of western society?

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Laurel]

Correct.

See how easily all this could have been avoided?

 

[Problem Child]

Correct.

See how easily all this could have been avoided?

Yeah...but think of the smell.

 

[seXieleXie]

i dunno, don't chimps jack off a lot and fling poo? sounds like the basis of a lot of porn.

 

[Laurel]

It IS? Damn, am I behind the times! I miss all the good stuff!

Don't you think the Alans would be proud that their debate prompted a discussion of scat porn? I think they would.

 

[Gingersnap]

Yes, Laurel is a thread killer and PC does want Angel to bite his sack. OH MY!!