Back to the Basics: Description

[KillerMuffin]

Been a while, huhm?

You've got to have description in a story, everyone knows that, but whats the best way? So, my wonderful fellow authors, instruct, how do you do it?

Here are some leading questions, or choose to postulate on your own:

1) How do make description vivid without being boring?
2) What POV should description be in?
3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?
4) What about word choices? What kinds of words?
5) Is personification effective?
6) I can't avoid a piece of narrative description, what's the best way to accomplish that?
7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?
8) How much description do I need for settings and other objects that show up in the story?
9) How do you add a particular "feeling" to a setting without being obvious? Like describing a house as being sinister?
10) How do you deal with detail versus word economy?

 

[MysteryWriter]

you cant handle my opinon

roflmffao

 

[MaxSebastian]

Back to the Basics: Description

1) How do make description vivid without being boring?

I think the first mistake in writing description is attempting to prove to the reader that you have an imagination. A fair few writers who ask me for help seem to write huge chunky paragraphs with as many long eloquent-sounding words describing a scene in immense detail, and I find I start nodding off after a few paragraphs.

The wonderful thing about description is that you can do it by just filling in the gaps of the reader's knowledge every now and then. So you start off a story, the reader knows nothing - a blank scene - and you don't have to immediately fill in that whole picture right away.

You can put in a few sentences to start out, then put in some dialogue, get the characters started on the plot. Then after a bit of dialogue and/or plot, you can drop in a bit more description to fill in the gaps of the reader's idea of what the scene looks like, then a bit more dialogue, bit more action and so on.

A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down for the reader - add some dialogue in, always have something going on in the story, and that keeps the pace going. Never just heap most of the descriptive scene-setting at the front of the piece and hope the reader will wade through it to get to the good stuff. A lot of the time they won't - and you know what? The voting button is at the end of the story, so kiss goodbye to that.

2) What POV should description be in?

This depends on which POV your story is written from, what kind of voice you are using for the piece, whether your narrator is an active one or a passive one. It's always nice to experiment in that kind of thing, but the trick is to be consistent.

3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?

I try not to have more than a few paragraphs without some dialogue. I think that story events often determine whether you can or not, though. How you do it? Well, set up the scene so that someone in it has someone to talk to, and then roll. You can intersperse dialogue with new paragraphs of description, short ones if you want the dialogue to continue to flow, long ones if there's any kind of pause in the speech.

Never try to put speech within a paragraph stuffed with description - particularly in an online format. You lose the pace of the story, you make it harder for the reader to read your prose and there's simply no reason for it.

4) What about word choices? What kinds of words?

In my opinion, the words should be the most appropriate for the scene you are creating. You're the writer, and your word choice is what ultimately defines you as a writer, so when it comes down to it, it's up to you. But I don't think you should attempt to use words you wouldn't ordinarily, I wouldn't use overly long words unless you're writing for an academic readership, I would try to be simplistic (though not overly simplistic) in order to keep the reader's eye flowing onwards through your story with the least possible friction.

5) Is personification effective?

I don't use it myself, so I wouldn't know. I'm sure if it's done well, it could be effective.

6) I can't avoid a piece of narrative description, what's the best way to accomplish that?

Well, short and to the point, I think.

7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?

I think a lot of people often go overboard on describing a character physically. The most important thing initially is the character's name - choose that carefully, as the name is like the foundations of the character - vital.

Then readers would like to know a couple of things about the character before things really get going - but not too many. It's usually terrible for a writer to dump a huge list of personal attributes of the character in one paragraph. There's every probability that the reader will miss - or forget - some of the details and so won't know the character as much as you would like them to. If you wait, and drop in small pieces of information for the reader along the way, each piece of information will have more time to settle in, and the reader will be introduced to the character far better.

Think about it this way: when you're introduced to someone at a party, you don't stand there and listen to a biography of them, do you? You'd soon switch off. No, you find out a few things with which to start up the conversation, then you use the conversation to get to know that person. It's the same with a story. A few details to give the reader a starting point, then let the story and the dialogue (especially the dialogue) do the real talking.

Of course, if the plot calls for the reader to know something specific about the character, that has to go in early in the story. It's incredibly amateur to write about someone (for example) straining to go into a petshop towards the end of the story and only when they go in are we informed, oh by the way, he's allergic to cats.

But trivial information can be dropped in at any time into the mix. Many physical descriptions can even be left until a sex scene, to be revealed by how the character's lover reacts to them - she loved his ocean-blue eyes... - and it can be wise to do that: it makes the sexual scenes more interesting if the reader is exploring the physical side of the character along with the lover of the character.

There are things we usually need to know at some point for a well-rounded character, though, but it's not always the physical description and exactly what you include is ultimately up to you. We need an emotional description, a few hints about the past, the present and the future of the character, some details (family, job, interests) to show that they are human and so on.

8) How much description do I need for settings and other objects that show up in the story?

You need enough description to make the reader comfortable in a scene, but not too much to bog down the story, tire the reader's eyes and bore them rigid.

You rarely have to describe objects specifically unless they play a part in the plot. If a person is in a desert searching for some water and then later while talking to a stranger on the road they start eating an apple, we want to know where that apple came from - and it may be important to describe how wonderful the apple is if it actually affects the character's thinking or the lpot in the rest of the story, but too much description of a standard object is completely unneccesary.

9) How do you add a particular "feeling" to a setting without being obvious? Like describing a house as being sinister?

There are a few ways of doing this. One way is to describe how the characters react to a setting. How do they feel about it?

Use metaphorical language and similes freely - compare the situation to feelings they've had in the past. Use all five senses, imagine what you would feel in such a situation.

If it's a scary scene, imagine what you would do to convince a friend of yours how scary that place was.

Using shorter or longer sentences as well as different sized paragraphs can help, as can the amount of dialogue. In a scary scene I once wrote in a story, where a character was witnessing a murder through a keyhole, and his friend was standing next to him, I built up the tension by including no description at all, just having the non-witness demanding what was going on, with the witness just managing a few select words like 'blood' 'knife' and so on. Very disturbing for the reader, because the details aren't readily available, they're just released in drips.

Of course for different "feelings", different approaches are best. The best way to cope can be to try and remember a scene in someone else's story that made you feel a certain way, then try to analyse just what exactly it was that they did to make you feel that way.

10) How do you deal with detail versus word economy?

Significant details have priority, details that have an impact on plot and character should be in there, with extraneous details having less priority. Then you leave in enough detail to clarify the picture without going overboard. It's a judgement decision that ultimately is up to the writer and whatever the writer's style happens to be. Don't kill the pace of your story, that's the only thing.

 

[Quint]

::bows to Max::

Am now going to write.

 

[Ray Dario]

Well, I'm certainly not an expert, and most of what I know about writing I've learned here at lit, but I'll give everyone my opinion.

1) How do make description vivid without being boring?

Don't get too wordy, use words that have emotional impact and are accurate and appropriate. As KM so recently instructed me you should consider the connotations that words have.

2) What POV should description be in?

I personally struggle with this. Often my descriptions come from narrator and readers seem to object to this. Maybe it's just the way I do it, I don't know. It seems more effective if the description comes from the same POV as the rest of the story or at least from the same POV as was most recently used or the one you are going to next, if you are switching POV's.

3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?

With great care. This is a better wording of a question I asked some time ago and got fantastic answers and mucho info on. I personally don't like to put much description at all with dialog, maybe just enough to let the reader know who was talking.

4) What about word choices? What kinds of words?

Be accurate and appropriate and pay attention to how the words make you feel. To go back again to a very good KM lesson

"She slapped his face, leaving a bright red mark." Bright is a happy word, not really appropriate for begin slapped. KM changed it to
"She slapped his face, leaving an angry red mark." Angry is a much better choice here because it carries the feel of the sentence with it.

5) Is personification effective?

Okay, I'm a dunce. What is personification?

6) I can't avoid a piece of narrative description, what's the best way to accomplish that?

I have this problem a lot. The best I can tell you is to think about who the character is that is seeing the thing you are describing and try to put it in his/her/its POV. Failing that, think about why you are describing whatever it is your describing. It's possible that you can work the description into the main POV somehow.

DON'T ever put it inside the dialog unless there is a huge compelling reason for the character to say the words you use. People don't say things like "Hi Jim, say isn't that a beautiful ebony, victorian era statue you are standing next to. By the way can I borrow your lawn mower?"

When you try to convey too much information in dialog, it becomes unnatural and forced. Don't do it.

7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?

Just enough for the reader to begin to picture the character. Describe what is important to the story, leave out what isn't.

If it's important to the story that the character has long blond hair, then tell the reader about it. If it's not important what color her hair is then leave it out. Don't ever go through a shopping list of characteristics and NEVER say things like "Her measurements were a perfect 68FFF-18-32" Hell I don't know what that means and neither do your readers and even if they did there would be no emotion tied to it. Go with something like "He slid his eyes over the enormous swells of her obviously surgically enhanced breasts balanced precariously above her impossibly thin waist." Okay so mine sucks too but it is far better than just giving her numbers.

8) How much description do I need for settings and other objects that show up in the story?

Just enough to give the story life, but not so much as to bog it down. One writing authority has said to only include things important to the story, but I think that sometimes diverting from the story a little helps to bring the world to life. Of course if it helps to bring the world to life, then it's important to the story

9) How do you add a particular "feeling" to a setting without being obvious? Like describing a house as being sinister?

Use words whose "feel" is the feeling you are trying to convey. Think about the words you use to describe it and try to find one's that "feel" the same way.

"Darkness hung over the house like a hangman's cloak as Beth drug her feet up to the porch. A single board creaked, sending shivers of dread up and down her spine. She took another step and then stopped. The gloomy windows stared out at her like a vulture waiting for a wounded animal to die."

10) How do you deal with detail versus word economy?

How do I do it? I don't. It's a problem in my stories. Probably why KM told me to go back after finishing a story and get rid of 20% of the words.

I am a wordy SOB and I know it.

Well there you have it, scenes from mall redneck style. Hope I haven't screwed anyone up too badly.

Ray

 

[jewelbox]

got to tell it

A story my step father tells me when I ask this kind of question. He says a black kid came home from school and his mom found a a pocket full of change. She asked about it thinking he might have stolen it. He tells her the boys had a contest to see whose was bigger.

His mama said, "Son You didn't show them your penis did you?"

"Don't worry mom, just enough to win."

That is how much you tell the reader just enough to make him understand. At least that is what my step father says.

 

[karmadog]

Yes, but.

I agree with almost everything that Max said, but I have one quibble. He advises adding dialoque or action (the sugar) to help readers take the description (the medicine). While I agree that overlong descriptive passages can be annoying, the root problem here is if your description tastes like medicine. My advice is to do some exercises. Whenever you find yourself somewhere with some extra time (at least fifteen minutes) and a pad of paper and pencil (or a laptop), pretend you are a painter, but paint with words. Don't worry too much about grammar and complete sentences, but find the words that communicate the essence of the scene.

How to do that? Describe everything down to the last detail, then go home and edit it. Think about the scene. What was crucial to it? What might give it a feel of irony or poignance? Do several versions of the same scene to give it a different feel.

Another thing tool that hasn't been mentioned is the simile. The simile is one of the most effective ways to give a paragraph the tone you want. The danger is that the writer may fall into cliche. NEVER let that happen. If you find yourself comparing clouds to cotton, break your fingers and never try that again.

One last thing: read what a writer you admire does, then for God's sake don't copy him/her, but there should be some ideas in their work that will help you.

 

[Guest]

Description

It is hard to add to Max's doctoral thesis but there are some other ideas to consider.
Rewriting is the process of sharpening descriptive passages. Only after a first draft is finished can you determine what needs to be cut, rewritten or expanded.
If you go into the process with the preconceived notion that descriptive passages will be boring medicine, they probably will be. All parts of a story have to work together.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

You've got to have description in a story, everyone knows that, but whats the best way? So, my wonderful fellow authors, instruct, how do you do it?





3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?



7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?
8) How much description do I need for settings and other objects that show up in the story?
3) Lots of dialogue. Damn little description.
6) I'd recommend only slight description. Whatever you give, you should give early. If you have "Mary" in the story, your reader has a picture of "Mary." Coming in later with a comment that Mary is blond might confuse the reader who has already pictured a redhead.
Of course, if Mary has her panties on until paragraph 20, then you can't mention her pubic hair until then.
8) Generally, not much. Have settings clear in *your* mind, or you'll have a character leaning against a wall in one scene and walking thriugh it in another.

 

[MaxSebastian]

Re: Yes, but.

I agree with almost everything that Max said, but I have one quibble. He advises adding dialoque or action (the sugar) to help readers take the description (the medicine). While I agree that overlong descriptive passages can be annoying, the root problem here is if your description tastes like medicine. My advice is to do some exercises. Whenever you find yourself somewhere with some extra time (at least fifteen minutes) and a pad of paper and pencil (or a laptop), pretend you are a painter, but paint with words. Don't worry too much about grammar and complete sentences, but find the words that communicate the essence of the scene.

How to do that? Describe everything down to the last detail, then go home and edit it. Think about the scene. What was crucial to it? What might give it a feel of irony or poignance? Do several versions of the same scene to give it a different feel.

I do agree, totally. Perhaps I left out a little of my own context: I personally prefer a little more pace to the stories I read - that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone does, and that of course doesn't mean a fair bit of description in there is a bad thing.

In editing other peoples' stories or going on to give feedback, far too many people who can write well attempt to prove that by putting in tons of description and nothing else. I think there are may people out there who do a lot of your suggested exercise - but they don't then 'go home and edit it'.

I think if you are going to work on your description, people, work on that editing too. Because I, for one, have a real problem with reading stories that are just like Calvin Klein fragrance commercials - all setting, no plot, no character.

As Karmadog said: "Think about the scene. What was crucial to it?"

And sure, as Ray (scary picture, by the way, Ray. Had to say it, but those oompa loompas always did disturb me - no offence meant!) said, it is nice to bring the world to life - but remember, you're not writing a nature journal here, it's a story.

And I think that to some extent, you may have to remember the media that you're writing for: it is online, after all. Maybe that does have an affect on the amount of description you should include. Maybe not - hey, some people have printers. Just not me. *sob*

 

[Axeltheswede]

description discussion

I'm glad not to be the only one a little freaked by Ray's pic on his posts. I always thought Willie Wonka was an effective horror movie.

Back to description, we all like simple rules. I teach a couple of evening sessions of Freshman English at a Community College. Students have widely varied skill levels when it comes to language usage. It is necessary to find practical exercises everyone can handle.

The simple rule to use for description in fiction is "does it advance the story?" If you can add the phrase "but I digress" at the end of a paragraph, that passage probably doesn't advance the story. If you can't justify having the passage for some other reason, it should be cut.

 

[Ray Dario]

The Pic

Sorry to be freakin' people out with my avatar. I'll think about changing it.

Ray

 

[Route66Girl]

Ray: Okay, I'm a dunce. What is personification?

Personification, I believe, is likening an object to the human form. "Fingers of sunlight," "the cracked skin of the earth", etc. It's so tricky to do effectively that I usually avoid it.

I decided to go ahead and answer these questions, not because I have expertise, but as a sort of exercise, hoping it'll make me think about my approach to descriptions more clearly.



1)How do you make a description vivid without being boring?

The primary pitfall to avoid is letting it meander away from the story. Can't add to Max, Ray and Karmadog much here. Using dialogue and action to break up the descriptive process is very effective. Of course, nothing is more important than using your words well.

There's only one more thing I would add that may help, and that's making what you are describing part of what's going on in the story. For example, if you are describing a windy night, follow the path of the breeze as it blows against the body of one of your characters.


2) What POV should description be in?

In most cases, it's best to use description narratively. But it can be from any POV you choose, so long as it's appropriate to the specific occurance.

You generally shouldn't use a character to describe what's going on around them unless the whole story is from their POV, but it would be allowable in some cases. What if they're talking to someone who is blind, or speaking to someone over the telephone? Or it could be that you're having a character recount something they saw or went through. In that case, it would be all right to have a description from the POV of a character. Just remember to have him or her describing things in a manner that fits the personality.

3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?

Hmmm, lotsa ways. One is to have the characters react to events and scenery with their words. Another is to have it interact with the characters as they speak, etc.

"I never meant to kill him," The sun setting was setting behind him as he spoke, silhouetting his strong form, making it impossible to see what was in his eyes. "But it was for the best. If I had to do it again, I would."

or

"I mean it," he screamed, his brown eyes as wide as saucers. "There's really a man behind you with his butt on fire!"

or

"What happened there?"

Erica turned around to see the remnants of the tree David pointed at, its blackened trunk split wide open.

"Oh, that. Lightning struck it when I was five," she replied.

"That's really funky looking."

"There's a lot of 'really funky-looking' stuff around here."

"What's wrong? You sound like you don't like it much."

Erica sighed as her gaze swept across the grounds of the massive estate she had always called home.

"I always felt out of place here is all." Like that tree, she added silently.



Well, I guess I demonstrated more than explained on that one, but oh, well.



4) What about word choices? What kinds of words?

Well, it depends on the situation, story, mood, characters, etc. I have nothing to add to what Max and Ray said.


5) Is personification effective?

Yes, just as similes can also be useful, as Karmadog pointed out. But, just as Karmadog said, cliches are a danger. Be very careful when using either, and be sure the comparisons will make sense to others as well.


6) I can't avoid a piece of narrative description, what's the best way to accomplish that?

If it can't be avoided, use it as effectively as possible by keeping it succinct. Again, nothing that hasn't been said.


7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?

See Max's answer, lol. I have nothing much to add to that.

I do have questions, though. Is it possible to avoid describing a character's physical attributes, excepting gender, and still have he or she be interesting to the reader? And, if you withhold those details until they become a crucial to the story, is there too much potential to disappoint a reader who may have built up their own image of this character by the time the true description comes out?

Questions 8 and 9: See Max and Ray, again. Again, I have nothing to add. That, and this is making me impatient to get back to my novella.

10) How do you deal with detail versus word economy?

I join Ray here in saying that I have problems with this. I constantly struggle to cut out superfluous words in my descriptions, and have very little idea of the difference between too much and not enough. I have zero advice on the subject.

I wanna go write now!

 

[Guest]

My two crooked cents

Just thought I'd add my two cents on what I feel I know something about.

2) What POV should description be in?

Depends on what you're describing. I always find it so much easier to describe feelings and sensations in the first person, but it's difficult to describe your "lead" character in first person without either having a paragraph describing themselves (amateurish) or using them looking in a mirror (cliched). Anyone who has read a Melvin Burgess book will be familiar with his very confusing technique of switching perspectives from chapter to chapter, writing from a different character's perspective in each chapter. Very difficult to pull off (or indeed to read), but astoundingly effective if it works.


3) How do you mingle description with dialogue?

Combining the two is often very effective (like jewelbox's skit, very funny btw) as it flows better if you can give the reader information and let them draw a conclusion, rather than just parceling out the information giftwrapped.


4) What about word choices? What kinds of words?

As I am finding to my chagrin, most of the slang which I take for granted is completely unintelligible to Americans, leaving quite a lot of people bewildered. The words you choose depends on your audience and who you're writing for. Matter of personal choice really, although anyone who uses the phrase "throbbing love stick" will be punished.


5) Is personification effective?

I tend to avoid it as it is very easy to mess up, and it's one of those things which will be glaringly obvious if you do.


7) How much description do I need for a character? What should I describe?

If you add in no description at all, then your readers will work out a character for themselves. I tend to give the sketchy outlines of a character's physique, like the images you'd get of a quick glance at someone, and let the readers fill in the blanks. Much more effective than forcing the reader's imagination into a set specification. But that's just my approach.


8) How much description do I need for settings and other objects that show up in the story?

As much as you need. May seem stupid, but it's the best answer. If the vase/statue/priceless painting doesn't develop your characters or add something to the story, then drop it. If you want to show a character is a flash poser, then talk about the red Ferrari. If not, don't.


10) How do you deal with detail versus word economy?

Disciplined editing. I hate cutting any part of my stories, but I know I really should at times. Write as much as you want and then go back over it to see what's superfluous. If you can't take the pain of putting the editor's scalpel to your creation, then use a friend or a Volunteer Editor.


At least that's what I think.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

Sorry, in case you hadn't realised that anon was me.

The Earl

 

[karmadog]

Editing

In all honesty, I cut at least half of what I write. I have learned that I write a lot of things that are not important to the story I have in mind. I have learned to write character profiles for all major characters (very little of which ever comes into the story directly) and descritptions(again, very llittle ends up in the story), but all of these things make a good story more likely.