AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[AwkwardMD]

Circling back around to the point of authorial endorsement, it could be said that The Cosby Show did a lot of harm to the understanding of middle class white America, who slept well at night thinking that we solved racism. It certainly wasn't the sole cause of this disparity of understanding, but it didn't help and it's audience was massive.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I endorse Simon's statement. The African American community in the US is diverse.

Yep!

They do not share common politics.

This is true in the pedantic sense of "in any large group you can find exceptions and differences", but not in any sense beyond that. Black Americans are are very strongly politically aligned. In 2008, for instance, 95% of Black voters voted for Obama - which makes them more aligned than registered Dems or Republicans (who each broke about 90-10 for their party's candidate). More recently, every analysis I've seen of Biden's victory in the primaries flags his popularity with Black voters as a big part of that victory.

They do not share a common religion. They don't share common experiences or family histories. They don't even share a common skin color or facial features.

"When asked about interactions with law enforcement during their lifetimes, 4 in 10 (41%) Black Americans say they have been stopped or detained by police because of their race, and 1 in 5 Black adults (21%), including 3 in 10 Black men, say they have been a victim of police violence.

Those sound like pretty common experiences to me. Note that those figures are only for people who have experienced these things directly - from what I can see, just about every Black American knows somebody who's experienced these problems.

Am I saying "no Black American would ever be enthusiastic about calling the police when they heard noises outside their house?" Nope. It's a big world and I have no doubt that somewhere in New York there's a nice Black family who love and trust their local cops and would have no hesitation in calling them out. I am saying that it's a very unusual choice, and that when it happens in a story like MIBI without ever being addressed, Occam's Razor points to "lazy white writer" not "thought-provoking creative decision".

 

[MelissaBaby]

Name the story, else I will call bullshit on that example.

And, as a black male -- which you will no doubt call into question -- I can say I have no fear of calling the police when I have need of them. Having the police called on me would be another matter, but that hasn't happened in my lifetime because I have never given another person a reason to call the police for something that I have done. Being stopped for a traffic violation doesn't put me on the defensive either. I have a nice car. I'm educated. I dress nicely. I am not the type of person that puts them on the offensive at first blush. If you are judging all of my people's interactions with police solely on our skin color, then you are wrong.

Took me about 4 seconds to Google...

https://www.unionleader.com/news/local/transgender-anarchist-wins-gop-nomination-for-sheriff-in-cheshire-county/article_30d0e4da-f2b6-5c97-9f00-ffbee0536293.html

 

[SimonDoom]

Circling back around to the point of authorial endorsement, it could be said that The Cosby Show did a lot of harm to the understanding of middle class white America, who slept well at night thinking that we solved racism. It certainly wasn't the sole cause of this disparity of understanding, but it didn't help and it's audience was massive.

But I don't think we have any clue whether this is really true or not. It's one of those things people say and some people believe it and keep saying it.

The argument, I suppose, is that it encouraged complacency, and that therefore white people who became complacent did less, either in their own lives or in their votiing patters, to redress discrimination against black people.

Maybe. But I doubt it, to any significant degree. I see no reason to believe it without some evidence.

There's a countervailing benefit, that might be stronger: millions of white people learning to have more empathy and feel more of a connection with black people by seeing them as being "like them" as opposed to being presented as lower-class funny caricatures in shows that were popular in the 1970s, like What's Happening, Sanford and Son, or Good Times.

When thinking about shows like the Cosby Show and whether it was good or bad, it's important to consider in the context of previous decades of horrible and degrading depictions of black people which only really started to change in the 1960s.

Did Sidney Poitier realistically depict how a black Philadelphia policeman would act and talk in The Heat of the Night in 1967? Not really, if we're our focus primarily is on realism. But it was an important and I think incredibly valuable depiction nonetheless. It was an interesting and I think artistically valid choice to present his character that way.

I have no idea which impact of the Cosby Show was stronger, or if there was any signiticant political impact, but I suspect nobody else does either, and that we're all throwing out spitballs and convincing ourselves that this or that interpretation or set of consequences is stronger based on our own personal cognitive and political biases more than anything else.

 

[NotWise]

Will Smith,

* agent Jay in Men in black
* The Fresh Prince of Bell Aire

So? What's your point?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I was making the point that links to what could be an outrageous claim should be left.

Maybe "I'd like a link to that story, please" might have been better than "I will call bullshit."

You know, if you don't want people to think you're just a troll.

 

[NotWise]

Yep!

I'm not going to address specific points. Simon said -- and I endorsed the idea -- that the African American community in the US is diverse. Their history is diverse. Their lives are diverse. Their experiences are diverse.

You responded with national statistics, which is the opposite of recognizing diversity.

 

[AwkwardMD]

That discredits Bramblethorns entire argument.

I don't think you understand how arguments work, but good luck in life.

 

[Emirus]

Took me about 4 seconds to Google...

https://www.unionleader.com/news/local/transgender-anarchist-wins-gop-nomination-for-sheriff-in-cheshire-county/article_30d0e4da-f2b6-5c97-9f00-ffbee0536293.html

Weirdly the link didn’t work apparently because, according to the 451 notice, at present the UK is an EC country. But I did google “transgender New Hampshire sheriff” and the information popped up.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Here is why Bramblethorn did not give us the link.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/lo...cle_30d0e4da-f2b6-5c97-9f00-ffbee0536293.html



For your understanding: DiMezzo, the trans-satanist, ran as a Republican because there were no other Republican candidates running. They would rather run as a libertarian.

That discredits Bramblethorns entire argument.

I argued that in any story describing this situation, one would expect an explanation for how such an odd combination of things came to happen.

You are suggesting this argument is discredited by...

***checks notes***

...producing a story which describes this situation, and provides an explanation for how such an odd combination of things came to happen.

Okay then! That's me put in my place!

Name the story, else I will call bullshit on that example.

And, as a black male -- which you will no doubt call into question -- I can say I have no fear of calling the police when I have need of them.

I am shocked, shocked by the suggestion that I wouldn't automatically believe the word of a throwaway anonymous internet account on a thread which regularly attracts anonymous trolls.

Having the police called on me would be another matter, but that hasn't happened in my lifetime because I have never given another person a reason to call the police for something that I have done.

Lol. It's 2020. Nobody is this naïve.

Bowing out of this discussion now, so as not to further derail AMD's review thread.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Here is why Bramblethorn did not give us the link.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/lo...cle_30d0e4da-f2b6-5c97-9f00-ffbee0536293.html



For your understanding: DiMezzo, the trans-satanist, ran as a Republican because there were no other Republican candidates running. They would rather run as a libertarian.

That discredits Bramblethorns entire argument.

So, MelissaBaby, if someone writes something that you do not like, they are a troll. Are you a child?

I did not say you were a troll. But, you've talked me into it.

 

[AlexBailey]

Nevermind...

I remember the TV show, but I don't get your reference.

Sorry, I guess I was internet mumbling. I know, that shouldn't be a thing.


I was thinking about the 'black perspective' in Men In Black, and associating it with the wealthy black family from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. (I even looked it up and learned the proper spelling.)

I was thinking that there may be a connection with how the MIB family is portrayed and the Fresh Prince family because the actor Will Smith was involved in both. I was mistaken. Will Smith was not involved with MIB International.

 

[PoisonPen33]

I'd love to have another author look at one of my chapters! It's an Erotic Couplings story that's 8 Lit pages long.

https://www.literotica.com/s/midnight-movie-club-ch-03

This is my highest rated story/chapter on the site. It's the third in an ongoing Erotic Couplings/Group Sex series. I'd be interested in hearing what you think - what I did well, what I could improve on, any changes/edits you would have made during the writing process.

I will say in advance, I have a problem with spelling and grammar. Despite a run through with both spellcheck and Grammarly, I have a knack for missing glaring errors that usually involve me sending an edit to Laurel for upload weeks/months after the fact. Please don't be afraid to point these errors out to me, be them singular errors, or a repeating pattern throughout.

 

[AwkwardMD]

750 Word Stories, by Belle Canzuto

The End Of The Affair
Interstate Love Song

These were both very strong examples of compact storytelling. There’s a lot going on in both of these, and I love efficient storytelling like this. You are layering in details for what’s coming alongside what came before while what’s happening now unfolds, and that is amazing. The ability to make your scenes dense and meaningful is a super useful tool.

It’s not a silver bullet to apply to every scene, as some scenes (particularly sex scenes) are often at their most powerful when they’re about only that moment.

Learn when and where to use scenes like these to fill in huge story gaps without resorting to exposition. These tiny stories told me so much more about the lives of these 6 characters than a similar amount of exposition would have done, and you did it organically. It just felt like I was catching them at the right moment to catch the right details and put 2 and 2 together all on my own.

That takes a little bit of forethought and a lot of talent. This skill will serve you well now that you’ve mastered it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Persephone's Creamy Peach Cream Pie, by pixiepricklypaprika

Link

I think the most appropriate word for this story is confection. It’s sweet, but it’s also 6k words of sweet. That’s a long time to spend in one mode. It felt like trying to drive to work in first gear alone.

Don’t get me wrong, this is your brand. It’s your style. You’re executing it across the board. These two characters are doing a dance from beginning to end. It’s cute, and flirty, and coy, and sweet. I didn’t get sensual. I didn’t get sexy.

Persephone was supposed to be super hard up for the D, but I didn’t get hungry. I didn’t get that she was jonesing. I got playful, cheeky banter. It was like eating cotton candy when I wanted steak. Then I look at your story titles, and I see that they’re (mostly) all playful alliteration. It’s even in your name.

I’m hard pressed to call this a bad stylistic choice. It’s not my favorite, but my favorite is irrelevant. The question is what do you want to create? If this is what you were going for, and this was what you were intending, I’m in no position to call this wrong or needing to be changed. You do you, boo.

In all of my feedback, I’m always trying to gauge what I’m reading against what I think the author was going for, and then I try to explain the gaps that I perceive. I don’t see a gap here. I’m open to doing a follow up for this story if you can articulate what you want to do differently, or perhaps if you have an example of writing that you’d like to emulate.

Matters of style are extremely difficult to discuss objectively.

 

[TeroWright]

The Beginning of my 'Christie and Cindy' Saga

Hello AMD. I have a 7,600 word Saga starter, split across two parts (for stupid reasons, don't ask) that I'd like to submit for a review.

It's along the lines of foot/trample fetish, and told in first-person. It was originally written ten years ago, and only had ONE major revision done before it was submitted here nearly a year ago.

I have my own nit picks about it, but I'd like to see someone else's.

Christie and Cindy's Intro:

https://www.literotica.com/s/christie-and-cindy-01-intro-pt-01

https://www.literotica.com/s/christie-and-cindy-01-intro-pt-02


Thank you in advance!

 

[NoJo]

Hi, after almost giving up writing here, I came all over this thread. Great reviews AMD! I mean great reviewing, mediocre reviews. Anyway:

I wrote a 5 part story which I think is great - it's very niche, and doesn't have a lot of views (I'd be suspicious if it did).


Link

 

[TeroWright]

A review for Closing Time, please?

Hey AMD, so after posting my first story, Christie and Cindy's Intro, for review, now you can see how far I've come in roughly a year's time with 'Closing Time' here.

Being a 'Fetish' writer for Trampling and Foot fetish, obviously I don't get much feedback...like, anywhere (not just this site), so it's hard to say if improvements have been made, so without further ado:

https://www.literotica.com/s/closing-time-32


Thank you again in advance!

 

[WoodmanStark]

New Improved Jennifer

I'd like to take my place in line with my rewrite of "Jennifer" which has gone live within the past several hours. It's now about 15k words and includes a few more "meaningful interactions" as well as a second explicit sex scene.
You've already seen a sample of this and responded favorably, so I'm fairly confident this will be well received. Perhaps the "music appreciation" scene is a bit self-indulgent, but self-indulgence was the motivation for writing this in the first place so I'm not going to worry about it.
As always, your brutal candor is appreciated.

https://literotica.com/beta/s/jennifer-25

 

[WoodmanStark]

Hi, after almost giving up writing here, I came all over this thread.

Great. Now who's gonna clean up this mess?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Midnight Movie Club, by PoisonPen33

Link

The good stuff.

I liked the sex scenes. I liked the descriptiveness. I liked the inventiveness. The characters were clearly having fun, and the specifics of each of their erotic adventures were varied and interesting.

I liked Cole’s strange manner of speech. I never quite felt like I understood what it was he was doing to his sentences, but it was well executed and intriguing. He sounded like the kind of person I’d want to ask strange questions of just to see how he’d formulate his responses.

***

I started on the third chapter, as you asked, and I found myself wanting for depth in the characters. This being the third chapter, that made sense, but then I went back and read the first chapter and I didn’t find what I was looking for. I read about a page of the first chapter, up to where Julie meets Eleanor, before I went back to the third chapter, because it appeared that this had more to do with your style than anything else.

There doesn’t appear to be anything else below the surface of Cole, Alexander, Julie, and Eleanor. They’re all rather blunt and honest, in their way, and they’re all pretty easy going. On the one hand, that gives you a setup where you just need to arrange it so any two of them are in a room, and then it’s only a matter of time before one of them eventually says “Well, I guess we should fuck.” On the other hand, that now gives you a story were the answer, 100% of the time, will be “Yup”, and there’s only so many times you can rely on that trick before it gets tiresome.

This seems like another example of a story that mistakes “things happening” for plot. The opening part of the story, maybe 1000 words, is a conversation not about women’s soccer, but about the fandoms of women’s soccer clubs in the Pacific Northwest. That’s a lot of story time to devote to something that doesn’t contribute to the relationships between the characters, or fill in anything meaningful about them, or set up any tension, or introduce new characters, or seemingly do much of anything except fill space. If you want to talk about women’s soccer, talk about women’s soccer, but make it mean something.

There’s a lot of food talk. There’s a lot of walking around. There’s a lot of walking to food trucks. The titular movie club scene was, at least, underscored by some wonderfully constructed foreplay, but that was saved by your ability at writing sex and not because you wrote a scene about movies that did much of anything.

Alexander liking Roman Holiday told me nothing. Julie’s favorite movies were curious picks, but they were all very straight forward. Yeah, 12 Angry Men is great. So what? Her spirited defense of Halloween was on the verge of saying something, but in the end what I understood was that Julie has spent time thinking about movie genres and the movie business, and that is an empty detail that in no way that helped me understand her.

In the end, what it really told me is that you, the author, know a lot of movie trivia.

There’s no tension. There’s no stress. There’s no release. The sex is taken for granted, so even though it’s good it’s also entirely predictable. The interpersonal relationships are completely interchangeable (sign me up for Colexander, though).

And then, underneath all of that, there was this weird, nagging flavor that ran through everything. It was in the character names (Julie Wyndham, Gwen Crutchfield, Alex de’Armound, Eleanor Freeman), and the weird way they all almost(?) curse without ever really being profane about it, and the Benjamin Franklin quotes. It’s a strange mix of upper crust, prep school shine, like every character Rory Gilmore ever met at Chilton and Yale, except in a school in Idaho with no such scholarly background. They read like trust fund kids who might reference a Robert Frost poem at any time. I can’t tell if this is how you think 18 year olds act and talk or if this is your “age: 41 to 50” voice coming out of many mouths, but it was jarring.

What this story reminded me of most was a fast food cheeseburger. It looked and tasted like a cheeseburger, but the primary characteristic is that it’s convenient. I can get this in a drive through without putting my car in park. It’s ‘assembly line’ rather than ‘artisan’, and when I put the bourgeoisie together with the convenience and the lack of anything meaningful, I suddenly felt like I was reading the script of an episode of The OC, Gilmore Girls, or Dawson’s Creek.

Television episodes, especially shows that have 26 one-hour-long episodes per season, are bad models for writing stories. There’s so much filler. There’s so many empty storylines. You have no such requirements on you. When you have a story idea, spend some time wrapping your head around the scope of it. How much story is really there? Some ideas are best served in short stories, and some ideas are great big ideas that beg for a dozen chapters to explore them completely.

This is not a great big idea. It’s 1-3 chapters, tops, not 7.

I'm going to recommend my story What Are Friends For as a comparative work. It's much shorter, clocking in at just over 9k words. It was also an experiment where I was actively trying to do as little telling and describing as possible, so some readers have found it to be too lean, but I use that short amount of time to backfill not just a complicated interpersonal relationship in the course of one scene, but also two characters with some depth to them. It's some of the most efficient storytelling I've ever attempted (though whether that succeeds is in the eye of the reader).

 

[PoisonPen33]

Thank you!

Another friend of mine pointed out that "you use three words when one will do" in my writing. Your review expanded upon that and gave me concrete examples of what to focus on in the future for my professional writings, along with hitting several unconscious concerns (a 41-50 writing 18, the "Rory Gilmore" effect) that crystalized once they were pointed out.

"MMC" is my 'tribute' to all the Skinemax I watched during my formative years, so the description of it as a "cheeseburger" is fitting. But that doesn't excuse it from having one-note characters who are more my mouthpiece rather than being fleshed out characters. Your feedback and critique gives me something to shoot for once I wrap up Chapter 8 and re-evaluate where I want to take the series.

I appreciate you taking the time to read my work. Thanks again!

(Edited because the morning coffee kicked in after I hit 'post')

 

[AwkwardMD]

.

"MMC" is my 'tribute' to all the Skinemax I watched during my formative years, so the description of it as a "cheeseburger" is fitting.

Like Surf Nazi's Must Die?

 

[PoisonPen33]

Like Surf Nazi's Must Die?

More along the lines of movies like Hotel Exotica and shows like Co-Ed Confidential. Although writing an exploitation erotica piece would be a neat challenge.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Ahh. Emmanuelle. Fond memories.

If that’s what you're trying to emulate, you're most of the way there. Even those movies had *something* they were building toward in their nods toward a plot, but it doesn’t need to be anything ground-breaking. All you have to do is establish some basic need that your characters are trying to fulfill, and it doesn't need to be any more complicated than "I want someone in my life."

If Julie had left Mark because, say, she had trouble with him not being able to meet her needs, and sometimes she worried that there was no way any one person could meet her needs, that would be a good entry point to multiple partners.

It doesn’t need to reinvent the wheel.