AwkwardMD and Omenainen Review Thread

[Omenainen]

My stories feel to me like I'm listing a sequence of events, rather than telling a story and I don't know how to fix that.
…
Originally, Kevin didn't really like Barbi. He thought she was a bitch. He was doing this reluctantly, as a favor to Kelsi. It felt like he was whining constantly in his interactions with Barbi and I nerfed that.
…
And I went back and forth between even involving Kelsi. Originally she was just the reason that he was taking the pictures, but not a participant.

Dude, when your characters tell you things, don’t ignore them. That’s the personality right there.

So, if we try to brainstorm a story into your sequence of events, we might do something with this. Let’s say we’ll leave the rape-y incest out and focus on Kevin and Barbie. (Might just as well make him Ken while we’re at it.)

Characters:
Ken, who sees himself as a Serious Photographer and not some sleazy porn guy
Kelsi, the sister who sweet-talks Ken into taking pictures of her friend, for Reasons, maybe her previous photographer eloped with the minister of a nearby church and she’s left high and dry, who knows
Barbie, the sexy and desperate but bitchy friend

Scene one: Ken takes relatively tame pictures. He hates Barbie, she hates him, they bicker, Ken is bitter at her sister for making him do this. As the shoot progresses, he realizes he can actually take good pictures of persons and not just landscapes, and once the pics hit the ManyFans site, Barbie can see that too.

Scene two: Ken takes more pictures. He’s fascinated with taking pictures of people, and slowly realizes Barbie is sizzling hot, bitch or not. Barbie, who is a bit of an exhibitionist but has only ever explored it online, finds herself getting aroused by posing for Ken, and they both forget to be bitchy and whiny. Barbie touches herself for the pics, and is so turned on she doesn’t know how to handle it, and Ken, finding his voyeuristic tendencies is too, and they’re both left horny and guilty and confused.

Now there’s personalities, there’s tension, there’s multiple ways this can go. You can turn it into a romance, into a E/V story, or just plain old EC. You can create drama by having Kelsi be suspicious about what goes on in the shoots, because they have previously fought like cats and dogs and now they’re both acting weird. You can have them both deny it, which makes it even more suspicious. You can have Barbie have a chance to have a new photographer but ask Ken if he wants to continue, so he has to either give it up and go back to the way things were, or admit he enjoys doing this. There’s all these possibilities that grow out of who the characters are, and their interactions.

It’s not a bad premise for a sex story, you can do a lot with it. Just ask yourself, what is the story you want to tell? Why are you telling this story? What is your underlying idea here?

While I was writing this, Djmac1031 was doing the same, and it makes me amused that he also had the reaction to brainstorm your story, and that he went in a slightly different direction than I did. See? It’s your story, not ours, and you need to figure out what you want to say with it.

That being said, if you want my help with a story, I have traditionally promised to beta read for anyone who wants to participate in my Pink Orchid event, so if that interests you, pay attention the next time I do.

 

[Djmac1031]

And I went back and forth between even involving Kelsi. Originally she was just the reason that he was taking the pictures, but not a participant.

Funny, I was just watching a porn video the other night.

Starts with two girlfriends in a bedroom, complimenting each other's bodies, eventually leads to masturbating together.

But when Girl 1 starts trying to kiss Girl 2, Girl 2 says she's not into women, but would be willing to ONLY if there was a guy present, because she needs a dick involved.

Girl 1's solution to this is to walk stark naked into the living room to recruit her Step Bro.

Step Bro offers the usual cliché objectections at first: "You're my Step Sis, it would be too weird."

His objections cease when Girl 2 walks in the room, also naked.

Commence sex scene.

Silly, unrealistic? Of course. But that's what most porn is nowadays.

And most people don't care. Fast forward til they're naked and fucking.

There's an audience here for that kind of story as well; they just wanna read about hot people fucking.

Plot? Who cares?

And nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with writing for THAT audience if that's what you wanna do.

In that sense I'd say your story does it very well.

But if you're looking to go beyond that, then I agree with @Omenainen in that the focus needs to be either Barbi or Kelsi, not both.

Story 1: Kevin shoots pics for Barbi because he's the only professional photographer she knows. They've been friends for a long time and maybe Kevin has had a crush but never brave enough to make a move.

Story 2: Kelsi asks Kevin to take pics. He's shocked and surprised of course. They've been close after their parents died but he's never thought of her that way.

Until he starts taking the pics of course.

Maybe Kelsi is intentionally trying to seduce him or maybe it just happens over the course of the story; just too much sexual tension from all the nudity and they do something rash then debate and agonize about whether to continue, or...

You get the point. So many choices, directions, variations.

You could write several completely different stories all based on the same scenario.

 

[djrip]

Funny, I was just watching a porn video the other night.

Starts with two girlfriends in a bedroom, complimenting each other's bodies, eventually leads to masturbating together.

But when Girl 1 starts trying to kiss Girl 2, Girl 2 says she's not into women, but would be willing to ONLY if there was a guy present, because she needs a dick involved.

Girl 1's solution to this is to walk stark naked into the living room to recruit her Step Bro.

Step Bro offers the usual cliché objectections at first: "You're my Step Sis, it would be too weird."

His objections cease when Girl 2 walks in the room, also naked.

Commence sex scene.

Silly, unrealistic? Of course. But that's what most porn is nowadays.

And most people don't care. Fast forward til they're naked and fucking.

There's an audience here for that kind of story as well; they just wanna read about hot people fucking.

Plot? Who cares?

And nothing wrong with that. And nothing wrong with writing for THAT audience if that's what you wanna do.

In that sense I'd say your story does it very well.

But if you're looking to go beyond that, then I agree with @Omenainen in that the focus needs to be either Barbi or Kelsi, not both.

Story 1: Kevin shoots pics for Barbi because he's the only professional photographer she knows. They've been friends for a long time and maybe Kevin has had a crush but never brave enough to make a move.

Story 2: Kelsi asks Kevin to take pics. He's shocked and surprised of course. They've been close after their parents died but he's never thought of her that way.

Until he starts taking the pics of course.

Maybe Kelsi is intentionally trying to seduce him or maybe it just happens over the course of the story; just too much sexual tension from all the nudity and they do something rash then debate and agonize about whether to continue, or...

You get the point. So many choices, directions, variations.

You could write several completely different stories all based on the same scenario.

Hey I saw that one too.

 

[alohadave]

There is some idea of things progressing. At first he takes pictures, then it’s pictures with masturbating until orgasm, then it’s sex on the stream but it doesn’t manage to build the kind of raising tension required to feel like anything. If I may be pedantic, though, it isn’t so much progression as it is escalation. Things get bigger, and have more consequences. There is increasing severity, but that’s not the same as progress (in the context of writing).

I've seen this in many stories, where the situations keep escalating, but you don't get the feeling that much is changing, other than the stakes get higher.

Humiliatio/exploitation stories tend to be like this. After a while, it just becomes repetitive and predictable.

 

[alohadave]

I just want to thank @Omenainen, @AwkwardMD, and @Djmac1031 for your critiques and comments.

I may try to rework or try this story from a different angle in the future, but I'll also work on incorporating them into the project I'm working on now. Having a definite goal to the story and working on the characterization.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I just want to thank @Omenainen, @AwkwardMD, and @Djmac1031 for your critiques and comments.

I may try to rework or try this story from a different angle in the future, but I'll also work on incorporating them into the project I'm working on now. Having a definite goal to the story and working on the characterization.

Normally I encourage authors to push forward and put their energy toward the next story, but this thread has seen at least one example of an author going back and reworking a story (Jennifer) in a way that reinvents and redeems the original.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Link
@MediocreAuthor

This story is fantastic. Flat out. No buts. Great characterization. Great dialog. Great plot. Great subversion of non-con tropes. Great descriptive writing. Kudos. 10/10, would recommend. Very often when reviewing stories, we get in a mode that doesn’t involve voting. We’re reading critically rather than for content. We voted for this one.

I think there’s something to be said that the strategic level of the plot, the 10,000 ft view of things, makes a little bit less sense than the story does as you’re going through it. Stavos’ outcome does seem to place a burden on him, a debt that he will be paying back for the rest of his life, but this requires the demon to live an entire mortal life in his vicinity. If the story had played out a little differently, I would believe tying an immortal demon into a mortal body was a punishment for said demon. Sure, there’s gonna be some oral sex, but there’s something lost in the tradeoff that feels unbalanced. It doesn’t feel like it all lines up as smoothly when we’re talking about the broad strokes, but this is an extremely minor complaint in a story this short and it’s literally the only one I could think of.

Since this thread has (unintentionally) turned into a kind of writer’s resource, I’d like to detour a bit and expand on something you did right.

***

I’ve talked elsewhere in this thread about my writing theory: everything is a tool. I think this is a good approach for learning because it helps give context to the process. Word choice is a tool. It’s an important tool, and it might be a little more important than, for example, POV (first versus third), but it’s a tool. They both are. They’re both choices you make, that are within your control, and they have benefits and costs. You use the tools to build things, and putting new tools into your author’s toolbox is almost as important as learning how and when to use them.

There is a great Roger Ebert quote that he made regarding the universally-reviled film Battlefield Earth. He said “the director, Richard Christian, has learned from better films that directors sometimes tilt their cameras, but he does not know why.” This is in reference to the Dutch angle, a cinematic technique intended to convey, per Wikipedia, “psychological uneasiness or tension in the subject being filmed.” It’s a tool, and it has a purpose, and everyone can tell when you get it wrong.

Several years ago, there was a lot of hullabaloo within video games critique and review about a concept called Ludonarrative Dissonance. Imagine a game where you play as an outlaw, and you’re running around doing bad things, but then the game also funnels your ability to purchase important upgrades through a vendor. Were this game true to its theoretical philosophical underpinnings, you would be able to kill said vendor and not spend any money, but it doesn’t do that. The game has controlled how much money you can earn, and so some upgrades are priced out of your range to prevent you from being too powerful too soon. In other words, if the game has encouraged you to murder to get what you need but also won’t let you kill people that are important for gameplay reasons rather than story reasons, that is Ludonarrative (play/story) Dissonance.

Games rarely follow through with this kind of total conceptual execution. They tend toward railroading you through a specific experience. Most games don’t buck social norms, either, so players who are playing a game as a cop wouldn’t even question their inability to shoot the vendor between the eyes. While the limitation is more invisible most of the time it is still there. You don’t question the invisible walls. Even the most interactive games have limits on the number of options available to you at any given moment. Developers can only prepare for so many outcomes. Although some people think that Ludonarrative Dissonance is a neat concept, it has fallen out of favor as a metric of critique because this is simply how games work. You can only do so many things, and a true libertarian playstyle simply cannot be accommodated no matter how hard developers try.

I invented a term based on my understanding of that concept. Metanarrative Agreement is when the telling of a story, the presentation, lines up with, reinforces, or informs the text of the story. I am not the first person to execute this concept (as we’ll get to later).

A simple example is the way I use short sentences and simpler word choices in my sex scenes to feed the animal brain that takes over. I want the reader to feel that breathless rush, and so when characters get naked my sentences get choppy. Bad grammar but who fucking cares. Simple. To the point. Tactile. All feeling, no thinking. Tongues, and panting, and nails scratching across my skin.

This is a conscious choice I am making to affect the reader, to guide them toward the specific interpretation I am aiming for. To give them a mindset that reinforces the scene.

Another example is found in my story Orchid, where I used left and right justification to simulate a text message conversation, complete with timestamps. It’s aiming to convey the eagerness of the characters in ways that the eyes aren’t really seeing as they bounce from side to side, but the brain is nonetheless understanding. 3 texts sent back and forth in under a minute tells you something about the focus level of the two people having this conversation, and narrating that directly would have come across very dry. My good friend Bramblethorn has an amazing story called Loss Function that uses different-but-functionally-similar special formatting for the text-based interactions that are central to the story. It’s eye-catching and it highlights what matters most. You see it from a mile away, and it’s striking.

House of Leaves did stuff like this. The Borne Identity reinvented the jump cut as a film production technique to convey furious action. Music has long used tempo to convey thematic pacing. This is not a new idea in execution, per se, but I’ve never seen it framed the way I’m framing it here.

Metanarrative Agreement is a tool, but it’s a radioactive tool. Radiation is certainly capable of being useful, killing cancer or powering an entire city for a year with a few metric tons of fuel, but it’s also capable of killing you if you fuck around. It can ruin your story. Make it unreadable. You can have the best idea, write perfect dialog, and still waste your story with obtuse framing or unreadable formatting. Lots of films overuse jump cuts, using them as a transparent cover for an actor who can’t hack the physical aspects. It looks bad when it’s done wrong, and everyone can tell. Everyone watching Battlefield Earth knows that the Dutch angle is being used wrong. Why is Barry Pepper diagonal on my screen while he's eating a sandwich? It’s obvious even to a casual audience that something is off

Eldritch Pact nails this balance. The diacritics are a perfect stand-in for the voice of a god filling your head, and you use them just the right amount. Perfect seasoning. You let this inhuman being blow us away for a little while, being barely comprehensible, and then transition her into a female body with a voice we can understand just ahead of the reader’s patience running out.

This is not an easy technique to employ, and indeed I would say it’s one of the last tools that anyone should attempt to master. It’s the most advanced tool in my tool box, for sure. I use it sparingly. On the one hand, I want to discourage people from using this kind of thing too soon. It’s the wrong technique to focus on when you’re still grasping how to balance dialog between three characters, or how to craft a satisfying opening paragraph that lures readers in and lays some foundation without giving away too much or frontloading all your world building. On the other hand, when you’ve honed your craft and you’ve polished your idea to a shine and you’re looking for that thing that puts you over the top?

This is it. Metanarrative Agreement is it, and Eldritch Pact is a perfect example of how you do it right.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Link
@MediocreAuthor

This story is fantastic. Flat out. No buts. Great characterization. Great dialog. Great plot. Great subversion of non-con tropes. Great descriptive writing. Kudos. 10/10, would recommend. Very often when reviewing stories, we get in a mode that doesn’t involve voting. We’re reading critically rather than for content. We voted for this one.

Oh my word! I can't believe how positive your review was! I read what you wrote, and it is so... I don't even know what to say! Thank you!

I agree that the final balance between Stavos, Rashãndia, and Zerish will be a strain on L'ventia in some ways, to be sure... But in my mind, an immortal creature like L'ventia would have no problem living with Stavos until he dies, before returning to her normal life of endlessly seeking sexual gratification that can never fully satisfy her.

I am so pleased that you liked the diacritics as well, because as you may or may not know, I received a fair amount of negativity during the planning stage of this story. Out of a handful of commenters in my original AH thread, only one of them said "That seems like a cool idea."

I'm so pleased that it was so well received by you and the majority of those who commented on the story.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story! Your review was a huge confidence boost!

 

[AwkwardMD]

Eldritch Pact nails this balance. The diacritics are a perfect stand-in for the voice of a god filling your head, and you use them just the right amount. Perfect seasoning. You let this inhuman being blow us away for a little while, being barely comprehensible, and then transition her into a female body with a voice we can understand just ahead of the reader’s patience running out.

I want to expand on this part, because I undersold it. The use of special formatting in Eldritch Pact is doing some heavy lifting in terms of explaining the difference in power level between Stavos and L'ventia. It's staggering, and the implementation of it puts the reader in a position to understand that they too would be dwarfed. That's a powerful thing to pull off with a few html tags.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Oh my word! I can't believe how positive your review was! I read what you wrote, and it is so... I don't even know what to say! Thank you!

I agree that the final balance between Stavos, Rashãndia, and Zerish will be a strain on L'ventia in some ways, to be sure... But in my mind, an immortal creature like L'ventia would have no problem living with Stavos until he dies, before returning to her normal life of endlessly seeking sexual gratification that can never fully satisfy her.

I am so pleased that you liked the diacritics as well, because as you may or may not know, I received a fair amount of negativity during the planning stage of this story. Out of a handful of commenters in my original AH thread, only one of them said "That seems like a cool idea."

I'm so pleased that it was so well received by you and the majority of those who commented on the story.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story! Your review was a huge confidence boost!

When I wrote Orchid, I went to the AH for help with the left-right justification, and the overwhelming response was "why?", "don't do that", and "that sounds like it would hurt my eyes" as if we don't interact with the format of text messages daily.

Good for you for sticking with your guns.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I'm having thoughts, because it's one thing for me to say "This ending is not as perfect as it could be", but it's quite another for me to imply, even indirectly, that perfection is a worthwhile endeavor. If you get to the end of your story and you have your ending and you write it and you feel good about it, that's good enough.

What would better look like? From an efficiency standpoint, how much longer would you need to workshop an idea to come up with something more appropriate, that ties together all 9 loose plot threads instead of 6, leaving three unresolved. What would be the ROI on time spent waiting for perfect to materialize?

Perfect is the enemy of good enough. Engaging with ideas after the fact can be helpful, and we can learn from each other by expanding our horizons and exposing ourselves to points of view that are different from our own, but don't hijack your creativity in the name of unattainable ideals.

 

[AlinaX]

All my stories are perfect - including this one.

 

[Omenainen]

When I wrote Orchid, I went to the AH for help with the left-right justification, and the overwhelming response was "why?", "don't do that", and "that sounds like it would hurt my eyes" as if we don't interact with the format of text messages daily.

Just to be the pedantic killjoy I’ll point out that the formatting on Orchid broke after some site change even when it published well initially, and that at this very moment there’s a thread over on AH on how someone’s story was ruined because their formatting didn’t work the way they’d envisioned. I probably still wouldn’t ever recommend to try this kind of things, even when they absolutely kick ass when successful.

Good for you for sticking with your guns.

That’s just it, isn’t it? Once you’re good enough, and you have an idea that’s good enough, you’re going to go through with it anyway. And that’s the way it should be. Appreciate your craftsmanship. Believe in your instincts. Follow your muse.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Just to be the pedantic killjoy I’ll point out that the formatting on Orchid broke after some site change even when it published well initially, and that at this very moment there’s a thread over on AH on how someone’s story was ruined because their formatting didn’t work the way they’d envisioned. I probably still wouldn’t ever recommend to try this kind of things, even when they absolutely kick ass when successful.

That is a very good point. Being clever with the diacritics is fine, for those that have devices that render them correctly.

Not all devices render them correctly. Mine didn't.

I've asked MediocreAuthor, next time, to carve runes in rock

 

[MediocreAuthor]

That is a very good point. Being clever with the diacritics is fine, for those that have devices that render them correctly.

Not all devices render them correctly. Mine didn't.

I've asked MediocreAuthor, next time, to carve runes in rock

I promise when the spin-off maledom version set in the same universe finally drops, (probably next year for Geek Pride) I'll be sure to send you the appropriate stone carved version (time permitting). Would you mind paying for shipping?

 

[ElectricBlue]

I promise when the spin-off maledom version set in the same universe finally drops, (probably next year for Geek Pride) I'll be sure to send you the appropriate stone carved version (time permitting). Would you mind paying for shipping?

The Spinal Tap miniature version will be fine .

 

[Constories]

Well I've seen you tear some stories to shreds, and some you've praised. I guess it's my turn, if you could be so kind.

Range Cold

Thanks.

 

[Omenainen]

Range Cold
@Constories

Well I've seen you tear some stories to shreds, and some you've praised.

So you had one and now you want the other?

I guess it's my turn, if you could be so kind.

You already had your turn. We don’t have a hard limit on how many stories we’ll review from one author, but we do keep score. With every review request, you are asking for our time and concentration, and I would like there to be a reason for it. Even Oh I just want to hear what they’d say about my writing is a good enough reason, but I think one review is enough to answer that question, don’t you? It’s probably wise to have a different penname for posting in LW, but I don’t much appreciate you asking for a review as if we didn’t know. I don’t like to be played.

(As a personal remark I’ll say that before I was doing these reviews with AwkwardMD, I read all the existing ones, and contemplated on asking for a review of my own. The reason I didn’t was that I had had a few beta readers by then, and had discovered that as a writer I’m pretty pigheaded and not open for suggestions once I’ve written something. So I reasoned that even if I asked for a review, and AwkwardMD would give me some pointers on what to improve, if I was not going to listen, it would just be a waste of her time. So I didn’t ask. I thought fluffing my ego wasn't a good enough reason to take up her time. I’m not saying everyone should be like me, but that’s some food for thought.)

Why do you send us this story? Is this what you want to do now? You want us to tell you how to write better BTB stories? Did you have some specific questions in mind, and if so, why didn’t you ask them? I think your angle of approach was “let’s hear what they say about this one for shits and giggles,” and I am not very thrilled by that. I don’t want to be a step in your publishing process. I want review requests to have a purpose. So, at the very least, the next time you ask, tell us what your purpose for asking is.

I have talked about Loving Wives as a category before and I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t understand the appeal. Some of what I wrote in that previous review don’t apply to this one, but the basic incomprehensibility of LW stands; they work in context, but they don’t stand alone as good stories. I’m still open for anyone to explain what the zing is in LW.

On to the actual review.

***

I won’t comment on the Mickey Spillane aspect since neither of us have read any of his.

Good stuff first: this is, on the surface level, well written and captivating. No great technical flaws, vivid descriptions, mostly a good mix of action and backstory. But you knew all this. So, to pick it apart I’ll take the kiddie gloves off, because while this is a first story for your new account it’s not your first ride. I read your comments, and many of them raised the points I have to make, so I’ll just quote them.

Anonymous6 days ago
This concept has promise as a 750-word tale, but as it is the story is far too long for the amount of story here.

I agree. The beginning was repetitive with the variations of “oh woe me we’ve been together for so long and now these assholes have betrayed me.” Not superbly so, but you could’ve killed a few more of your darlings. There wasn’t much story in this story. You didn’t tell us anything but the bare minimum about any of these characters.

AngelRider6 days ago
What is erotic about this?

Oatmeal19695 days ago
this should be in the non-erotic category

I also don’t find revenge erotic. Intense, emotional, arousing, yes, but not in a sexual way. Then again, some of these commentators probably read LW regularly, and most LW stories I have read haven’t been erotic to me, so I would’ve wanted more details on what should have been included to make it erotic. The whole category is a mystery.

green1176 days ago
…

The emotional descriptions were strong - the twist was clever and bit dark ("noir", don't you know), I found the transition from weepy cheated on woman to "get the cheaters to shoot each other" demoness a bit jarring - I suppose a sideways testament to your portrayal of the first.
…

This. Pick either emotional and unstable or the cold blooded revenge goddess, and if you pick both, justify the transition in some way. She didn’t even have her magical hip-flask of psychopath juice with her; she was a weeping wreck, and then she suddenly wasn’t. I found that a bit lazy. I think you should’ve gone for “dead inside” for the beginning half instead of “devastated and weepy”. I’d think the devastated and weepy was absolutely a phase for this character early in the plotting this revenge, after finding out about the deceit, but I get that then you couldn’t have shown it in real time. Choices, choices. Anyway, picking both in this manner did not, in my opinion, work. I started the story cheering for the first person POV character, as readers are prone to do, but you lost me with that non-justified transition.

cyendrey5 days ago
I gave this two stars. Not because it wasn’t well written but because of story line premise. Once she, pointed a loaded weapon at her husband she was guilty of felony assault. With two corroborating witnesses in todays hyper sensitivity to gun violence, she should expect arrest as soon as the two can make contact with law enforcement. With the threat with intent/coercisn to force the husband to shoot at the other victim for fear for his life, she’ll be going away for a long time.

I guess because I am a gun enthusiast, I don’t care for the scenatio that will lead to more antigun posturing. The MC is clearly unstable; her reaction is not even in the adjacent area code for sane.
If you’re going to use guns as a central prop/enabler you need to include the almost certain consequences for the MC given how the incident played out.

Now this is something that made me feel a kind of sad, dark amusement. This sentiment is the same one that I feel when reading stories with fetishized, sex-crazed trans women. It grabs for exotic aspects of a life experience that isn’t yours, and misses the nuance. Those who are not invested in the issue will go “oh who cares, I got off to this, when will chapter two be out?” while those who are walk away feeling let down. It’s a sad, unempathetic world we live in.

My main issue with the story is that it is a revenge story. Revenge, in its core, is childish and will taint what it touches. We all know the burning urge to lash back, the childish “oh how you’ll all cry at my funeral,” but there’s a reason most people outgrow acting on those urges at a young age. Basically, you take revenge and succeed, and then what? You’ll forever be the person who sank to the level of another, who lowered themself to the muck to wrestle with the pigs, and what’s the glory in that? It’s a fine line between defending oneself, standing your ground, and crossing over to the lowlands of revenge, and in my opinion, crossing that line makes the character crossing it not likable. I guess it is possible to write stories with zero likable characters, like this one, but what’s the point in that? Especially in erotica. What are you trying to say with such a story? Tee hee I got you? Is that enough for a story? You are easily good enough a writer to say something with your art. We’ve talked extensively, elsewhere, about Authorial Intent. The point is you’re always saying something. In this instance you’re saying that it’s okay to take justice into your own hands and force people to kill each other if they insult you badly enough. If that's what you want to say, then fine, you do you. I just think it pays to be mindful of what you’re saying.

There are ways to handle these feelings in a setting that will not invite similar moralistic judgment, for example setting the story in another world, one of science fiction or fantasy, where moral lines are drawn differently from here. Then, maybe, you could entice the reader to rejoice the sweet revenge with you, instead of me looking down my nose at you and going tut, tut.

 

[Constories]

To address the pre-review, I apologize if I was insulting or rude in my attempt to request this review after having already received one before. I sent you a PM better explaining the reason from my behavior, but just the same... I meant no offense. I really enjoyed your insightful critiques, and I genuinely appreciate you dedicating your time to reviews this way. Thank you

So, to pick it apart I’ll take the kiddie gloves off, because while this is a first story for your new account it’s not your first ride.

This is exactly what I was looking for! Many of the comments/reviews I received, I was afraid were either being too kind, because they felt I was "new" (in spite my forward stating that this NOT my first story, merely my first LW story) or nice because they came from friends, or harsh but coming from non-writers in the comments (opinions which are unreliable at best). I specifically came to you because I knew you had fair, brutal critiques available. Now it's time to get what I came here for.

I also don’t find revenge erotic. Intense, emotional, arousing, yes, but not in a sexual way.

I agree 100%. I placed this story in LW because adultery revenge stories are common and popular there. I also did not find this story erotic, (I put non-erotic in the tags) but the actual non-erotic category is quite unpopular. I have no excuse otherwise.

I agree. The beginning was repetitive with the variations of “oh woe me we’ve been together for so long and now these assholes have betrayed me.” Not superbly so, but you could’ve killed a few more of your darlings. There wasn’t much story in this story. You didn’t tell us anything but the bare minimum about any of these characters.

I struggled with this. I wanted to pack this thing with emotions, but I was afraid it was starting to bloat... I would have loved to add more backstory in, but that would have made it even longer. In the future I need to try to better balance detailed emotion with the amount of story. Good point.

This. Pick either emotional and unstable or the cold blooded revenge goddess, and if you pick both, justify the transition in some way. She didn’t even have her magical hip-flask of psychopath juice with her; she was a weeping wreck, and then she suddenly wasn’t. I found that a bit lazy.

I also realized this was a problem as I wrote, but I didn't know how to fix it. This story actually made me cry, almost inexplicably, and I was trying to balance those intense emotions with the revenge plot. I suppose I failed to some degree, and I'm going to look back over and see how I could have made the transition better. Perhaps creating a plot doc would have helped me keep emotions more consistent. At least that way I might have noticed the inconsistency before I published it.

Basically, you take revenge and succeed, and then what? You’ll forever be the person who sank to the level of another, who lowered themself to the muck to wrestle with the pigs, and what’s the glory in that? It’s a fine line between defending oneself, standing your ground, and crossing over to the lowlands of revenge, and in my opinion, crossing that line makes the character crossing it not likable.

This is a critique I was not expecting, but I'm glad you put it forward. In my mind, the fact that Elizabeth came up with a (mostly) non-violent revenge plot was what kept her half-way likable to me. She was still wrestling with murderous urges, but she pushed all of those back and ended with a plan that hardly hurt anyone physically, but showed the true colors of her friend/husband. I had several people express wishes that she would have killed them, but I thought that her solution was much more elegant...

That said, you bring up an excellent point that her plan was still vengeful, and simply separating herself from those who hurt her and learning to forgive them would have been far better for her emotional health (although perhaps not as exciting to read).

---

I want to thank you yet again for looking at this story and reviewing it. You gave me everything I was looking for in a review, and you even pointed out flaws I hadn't even considered. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort you put forward for your fellow authors... Thank you so much!

 

[Omenainen]

This is exactly what I was looking for! Many of the comments/reviews I received, I was afraid were either being too kind, because they felt I was "new" (in spite my forward stating that this NOT my first story, merely my first LW story) or nice because they came from friends, or harsh but coming from non-writers in the comments (opinions which are unreliable at best). I specifically came to you because I knew you had fair, brutal critiques available. Now it's time to get what I came here for.

Sounds like you need ruder beta readers. Try making friends with somebody Finnish.

I’ll be hosting my Pink Orchid event again next year, and if you’ll participate in that I’ll be available for beta reading. I promise to be blunt.

I also realized this was a problem as I wrote, but I didn't know how to fix it. This story actually made me cry, almost inexplicably, and I was trying to balance those intense emotions with the revenge plot. I suppose I failed to some degree, and I'm going to look back over and see how I could have made the transition better. Perhaps creating a plot doc would have helped me keep emotions more consistent. At least that way I might have noticed the inconsistency before I published it.

If you would have structured it differently, you would have had more room for both mental states. If you wanted to keep it as a single scene like that, exposing the reader to the plot little by little like this, then yes, it would be difficult to do.

For example, if you would’ve included finding out about the affair, then you could’ve had all the weeping and murderous urges there. You could’ve had her ponder her choices. Then, you could’ve had the treacherous pair do something that would really make her see red, it could even be something seemingly irrational, like fucking on the crocheted bedcover her grandma had given her, and after that she would be like that’s it, they’re dead. And she would plot the revenge, and every time she wavered she would remember the bedcovers and get mad all over again. Then you could have the shooting range scene all for cold blooded execution. Then the whole of it wouldn’t come as a surprise for the reader, but it could be a more coherent story. Maybe longer, but you could also add some actual story to it, like who are these people, why should we care, why is this bloke with this girl and not the other one, why is he cheating, why is the friend cheating, all of that. Now you just made the hubby and the friend cardboard cutouts instead of people.

 

[Throwaway256897q6r72]

An Unexpected Visitor

Hi, would really a review on my newest work. Writing style, grammar, any spelling issues, character development, etc. I've read some of the reviews here and feel like I could benefit from a harsher, more in depth review.

Also, if you are willing, the series I've been posting, "My Favorite Realtor," was written over a year. I will link my favorite part of it so far. If possible, I wouldn't mind a review on it, mainly to see if my writing as improved in the last year or not. If you only want to review one, I understand and appreciate it either way. Thanks!

My Favorite Realtor ch. 8

 

[Devil_PS]

https://literotica.com/s/kayla-and-the-oni-from-the-east

Well, the first work I posted on Literotica. I'm quite grateful for how well received it got since published, but like my other works here as well as other sites, I certainly got room to grow and learn as I continue to write up adventures of my fantasy swordswoman with not so great luck, Kayla Moonsdale.

Edit: But right, felt like I need to see what I got right and what I need to improve so far to do in future works as a writer. I thank anyone for giving this a chance

 

[Stacnash]

Well I've seen you tear some stories to shreds, and some you've praised. I guess it's my turn, if you could be so kind.

Range Cold

Thanks.

I reviewed your story yesterday and left it in the form of a comment on your story. You should receive it in a few hours when the site updates.

I just want to tell you that the reviewer on this thread was very kind to you. Kinder than they should've been, which is entirely up to them but noteworthy to me.

 

[Constories]

I reviewed your story yesterday and left it in the form of a comment on your story. You should receive it in a few hours when the site updates.

I just want to tell you that the reviewer on this thread was very kind to you. Kinder than they should've been, which is entirely up to them but noteworthy to me.

I saw your review. I sent a PM regarding it. But I appreciate you reading it, just the same.

 

[Stacnash]

I saw your review. I sent a PM regarding it. But I appreciate you reading it, just the same.

Thanks for reaching out and the spirit of your response. Good luck to you in the future.