Asking him out ... finally (long, detailed); input appreicated

eudaemonia

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God, I feel like a schoolgirl** asking this but here goes.

I'm nearing the end of finishing my second bachelors degree, getting ready to apply to grad school. Since day one, ~3 years ago, I found myself attracted to one of my professors, mentally and physically. But I just pushed it to the back of my mind because 1) student-professor relationships can be very tricky, and 2) I had no idea of his martial/sexual-orientation/relationship status. Fine. I'm an adult (43) and can keep my focus on the scholastic. The entire time of taking classes with him, I grew more and more fond of him as a person and a man, and realized that his values and meta-ethical commitments matched my own as no one else I've ever met. I also noticed that he seemed to look at me a lot in class, always holding my gaze longer than other students'. (Of course, that may be function of culture: he grew up in eastern Europe and I noticed when I've been to the Continent that many people don't avert their glance at you as quickly as many Americans seem to.)

In the past nine months or so, there's been perceptible shift in our interactions. It's more peer-like than hierarchical. Walking out after class he'll ask me what I think about how he presented material in class or whether the course was structured okay. I would always tell him that I think he's proceeding just fine, on the right track, even if he's presenting difficult material; cuz other professors just treat us like dumb@sses for not "getting" it, which he never does. I once said to him that I wouldn't have taken Metaphysics as part of my degree since I didn't have confidence that any other faculty could make it understandable. But since he got to teach it this year (quite by happenstance) I got lucky! He kind of smiled at that ... his shy, sweet, dimpled grin. *swoon*

I was outraged in January to learn that he was denied tenure. He's profoundly productive and prolific, by far the best professor I've had during either earned degree. He suggested that I direct my displeasure about the tenure decision to the university's Provost, as some of his other students did.

Writing that letter on his behalf I realized that it was something of a love letter. I professed my great admiration for him, suggested that the department chair was being deliberately prejudicial towards Prof. Xxxxx and that the university was pandering to the prevalent multi-culti common denominator at the expense of keeping a professor who challenged all that nonsense and was truly committed to free inquiry. I cc'ed my prof, and he sent a lovely e-mail of thanks, signing it by his first name. That stole my heart for good.

A few days later he revealed, in the course of discussion regarding a professional conference that he co-founded and chaired, that he was no longer able to continue running the conference because he had significantly less time now that he was "the single father of three boys." That made my head spin and put me into mental overdrive.

Throughout the next two terms, I had my last courses with him. We revealed more and more bits about ourselves, our personal lives, very slowly. He says he enjoys our office-hours chats (as have I!). And when I e-mail him about our common scholarly interests he's always quick on the reply button with a response to my questions and links or attachments to whatever source material might be of interest to me.

On the more personal level, once when we were talking about his young son recently, whom he brings around the department every now and then, he told me that he's been working at getting full custody from his ex-wife for the last three and half years. (Apparently she doesn't work and is having some problems dealing with the boys.) He has two of the three kids fulltime. Because he's foreign-born, there's some extra issues as far as the courts and custody are concerned.

One more thing, he's asked several times about my graduation timeline and what courses I'm taking, I think, as if he wants to know whether I'm taking anything within the department. Finally, if this matters, we are perfectly age-appropriate for one another: he's just two years older than I am.

Enough background. I'll fast forward.

Two weeks ago this coming Monday, I turned in the final paper for the last course I took, and will ever take, from him. By my way of thinking, once he's turned in my grade, there's no more issue of imbalance of power as far as the university is concerned. However, since he has a lawsuit against the university for breach of contract, any hint of impropriety on his part may damage his case. Assuming of course, anything could be proved. But beyond that, I don't need or want the university's intrusion into my consensual relationships, regardless of what the written policy is.

I came to literotica one day in a fit of curiosity (and high arousal) to find info on uncircumsized men. :) I realized that my fantasies about him involve a deep desire in me to know him, to be with him. The fact that he's so fiercely protective of his sons absolutely melts my heart. I have no family, no ties to anything really, but his life is a lot more complicated than mine. And it's all of these things that I'm fully cognizant of when I wonder what (or if) he's thinking about me. I suspect he's wondering how the hell would I fit into his life or whether I'd want to. I could be wrong, of course.

But I'm nearly certain the attraction is reciprocal. And I think it's going to have to be me to make some kind of overture to let him know I'm very interested, and very available, complications aside.

So ... Help! What now? How do I approach him in a way that conveys my interest while giving him a comfortable amout of space to decline (or accept) without causing too much anxiety?

Any thoughts (short, long, flippant, serious) are most appreciated. I'm chewing my arm off thinking about this. But I've decided that this is the weekend I come up with some idea or two about approaching him next week and then acting on it. Do or die, now or never.

Nota bene: **Actually, I am sort of a schoolgirl, I guess. ;)
 
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I can feel the excitement - and anxiety - of your situation. It is the stuff love affairs are made of, or seems to anyway. It was fun to read your post and remember those feelings when you're just silly with giddiness.

It is a delicate matter, and there are a lot of 'as ifs' but I think you ought to ask him to dinner. Perhaps you could couch it as a celebratory thing - finishing this portion of your degree work etc. How about as a 'thank you' to him for those office hour chats, the confidence he's shown by asking for your thoughts about his course and class structure.

It can be spontaneous or planned - I'd go with the 'rehearsed ad lib' ;). From your words it seems you have a nice rapport with each other, have made the overture on both sides... go for it. Use those giddy schoolgirl butterflies in your tummy and ask the man to dinner! :rose:
 
Awww...that's totally sweet...thank you for the smiles. :)

I don't think I have much in the way of advice or ideas for you, apart from maybe inviting him for something that could be social or businesslike. For example, perhaps you could tell him again how much you've come to appreciate him, and ask if he'd like to go out for coffee and give you his thoughts on ___(something academic, grad school, career-related, etc.)__ . I'd imagine getting out of the school setting would relieve some of the pressure and give you plenty of opportunities to socialize, flirt a little (or at least let him know you're interested in more), and make future plans. However, if he's not interested, the proposed topic would give both of you an 'out.'

Another option might be to invite him to some type of event you think he'd enjoy, like a lecture, art talk, or performance. He could view that as you being a thoughtful person/friend, or as more of a date. Even if he had a conflict (with plans, babysitting, etc.), it'd give him the signal that invitations are okay with you, and he may act on that in the future. He might also let you know he'd like to be invited in the future.

One thought is that while he may not see romance as an option right now due to the lawsuit and custody battle, having a platonic friendship with you might be a possibility. So, if you can move into that role in his eyes, a slower, smoother transition or progression, you probably have a better chance of romance down the road. Therefore, invitations that could be interpreted as friendship-building might be the ticket.

I'll keep thinking on this one. In grad school, my hubby and I had two professors who were married...they'd met when she was an undergrad, and married shortly after her degree was finished. I don't know the full story (though I got the feeling it was a bit of a scandal at the time), but it can work, and it sounds like there's a lot in your favor. :)

Good luck, and keep us posted! :rose:

Edit: I also really like Cate's idea (she's so damn smart!) of inviting him to celebrate or as a thank-you. I think dinner would definitely set a certain tone, but if you think he might have trouble with childcare or something, or fear it appearing improper, lunch could work.
 
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Silly with giddiness is just about right, Cathleen. And it's exhausting! My brain is practically pretzel-shaped from all the mental gyrations I've done while being in limbo about this since February.

You're right about something, the confidence he's shown about my opinions of him as a scholar, writer and teacher. I hadn't realized that before. But that scared part of my psyche says sh1t like, "He's just stroking your ego to get you to go to bed with him." Of course, he's NEVER done or said anything that could be construed as a come-on, although he does have a healthy ego and likes to strut his intellectual colors. <g> (Well, a couple of times he's very lightly reached out and touched me on my upper arm when greeting me outside of class. I almost buckled at the knees!) At the same time, I've had countless daydreams of what I'd like to do to him if I had my way so maybe my pysche is duking something out. :devil:

I'd forgotten a couple of other things. Two weeks ago the department held a student reception one afternoon. I knew about it beforehand but had no plans on going. I ran into Xxxxx between classes and he asked if I was going. I said, "Yeah, I might come up for a little bit during my break from work." He said that he'd see me later then. *Butterflies* (He also asked if I'd stop by his office the next week to look at his computer because he couldn't send e-mail, only recieve it. I thought it a little fishy since he about our changed outgoing server settings a while ago, but whatever. *More butterflies*)

When I dropped off my paper two weeks ago I kind of hemmed and hawed trying to cuff something off about "maybe going out for coffee -- where the walls don't have ears -- so I could pick [his] brain about [his hometown, where I'm going next summer for a month]" and he blurted out, "yes, yes ..." and then scooted me out because he had to prepare for class. So, I think you're right on, Erika about proposing something very social away from campus with the intention of just chatting about our common scholarly interests, my grad school plans, his career intentions, etc, and hoping it meanders into more personal topics.

I really like the idea of making it a little celebratory in nature. I want him to know first and foremost how very much I appreciate him as a teacher/mentor/thinker. I really do admire him. Maybe I should learn how to say "cheers" in his native language (or just say it in Czech or German, which he won't expect that I know).

One of my guy friends suggested that maybe I should make it sound like a thank you and hope-to-see-you-around kind of thing over coffee. That seems a little manipulative to me, especially since the chance of running into him on campus or near the department and in the hallways is pretty high. And also given the fact that we'll both be in his hometown the same time next summer.

Anywho ...

Thank you {{{{both}}}} soooo much for your thoughtful input and for validating what I was already thinking.

D-day is Monday, 11:30 a.m. during his office hours. A mere 42 hours away. I'll report back whatever the outcome.
 
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I'm excited for you! 42 hours... you better report back ASAP woman!

I liked Erika's ideas a lot and it seems a mixture of the ideas we had might be a good path. (I only beat Erika to the 'submit reply' button first.) The off campus thing would seem to be very important, I hadn't thought about that.

Have fun!
 
eudaemonia said:
Silly with giddiness is just about right,

Hi Eudaemonia!

I really do not have anything to add or suggest - except to not let the negative thoughts get to you - and to say how I envy you this time....I remember once - yikes its been over 10 years, when I meet the last man I was so filled with the silliness and giddiness - I only really got to see him on Wednesday nights and Sundays - but oh how I ralished those days and get so excited that I get a chance to talk with him. I then had a wedding to go to and I finally got up enough nerve to call him to see if he would go with me. He did and we had a great time.....

I'm with Catheen and Erika - eager to hear on Monday what happens....

Cheering you on!!!!!! You go girl!

:rose:
 
A Man's Perspective???

Hello Ladies,

I loved hearing about your stories of love from afar and the secret longing within. It is so very nice to know that women wrestle with this conflict of dating as well. Somehow, you all look as though you are cool as cucumbers and in control at every second. I often wonder how you make it all look so easy. I do so envy you for that.

I agree to ALL of the ideas expressed here. My opinion is that if this professor is showing such an interest in your continuing education, he just may be thinking about whether or not there would be a conflict in seeing him in a non-educational environment. I speak from experience when I say that I wish, more than once, a woman I had an interest in would have taken the tremendous leap of faith to ask me out. It takes alot of pressure off of the man as well.

One other reason this professor has held off of asking you out may be because he knows that you know what his life situation is. ie; 3 kids, a custody battle and a lawsuit. He may think that this all may be too much for you to handle and the fear of rejection because of the things I mentioned, might be holding him at bay.

I agree with these lovely ladies. Let him know that an invitation to go out is Ok with you. Having permission takes a great deal of stress off of a person. From what I've read, I don't think it's a matter of whether or not he see's you in that light, it's just the opportunity to explore that option. I say go for it!! Ask your secret loves out!! The worst thing that could happen is they say no. The best thing that could happen is that you go out, have a great time and possibly find the man that you've been searching for all of your lives. Ladies!! Fairytales DO come true!!!!

Blessings and Good Fortune to you All :rose: ,
Batman
 
wariness

I am supportive of all the ideas here, but I confess still wary. The fact that you are 42 and not 22 is tremendously in your favor. So, on the plain old human side, yeah, you should ask him out in all the ways that people have already mentioned. Then there is the side where he is a prof and you are still a student, albeit one who might be older or the same age as the prof. As you are well aware, a) this stuff happens and turns out well and b) if there is an intimation that you two are in a relationship and it gets around, it could destroy his career. It sounds like you are really close to finishing, right? If so, then it might be OK to go to dinner and talk as colleagues and friends, but be careful of anything more until you have that certificate. Seriously. It's not that long, right? You can make it, I know. After graduation, I think there will be a lot less talk than there might be because you two are so similar in age. People will understand, especially as he is no longer married, and hasn't been for years. Seriously, who else do academics who study and teach 18 hours a day meet other than other academics? As for the legal proceedings about custody, again there should be no harm in him dating someone while seeking custody. People date. But just like for his job, there is potential damage to him dating a student. If they never meet you, the judge could get this idea that he's taking advantage of some 20 year old. So, I guess my recommendation remains the same. If you are close to finishing, try to become friends with him but keep it there. If you find the tension becoming enormous and he clearly wants more, I don't think there is harm in saying you'd love to french him for the next three hours, but you aren't for reasons 1, 2, and 3. He will get it and, through his frustration and yours, maybe thank you for it. More than anything though, finish your degree, so you can go back to being two humans who are attracted and not a professor and a student.
 
Batman4ever71 said:
One other reason this professor has held off of asking you out may be because he knows that you know what his life situation is. ie; 3 kids, a custody battle and a lawsuit. He may think that this all may be too much for you to handle and the fear of rejection because of the things I mentioned, might be holding him at bay.
That's occurred to me as well.

I'm a strong woman. His life situation doesn't faze me one bit. If I can manage to persuade him to come out with me, I'll figure out a way to let him know that. Afterall, I was once in the same position as his kids, parents fighting over me, a new woman in the picture, all that.
M-Y-Erotica said:
b) if there is an intimation that you two are in a relationship and it gets around, it could destroy his career.
Two things: 1) His career in academia is pretty much destroyed already by the denial of tenure decision (it's extremely rare to get a second shot, esp. in the area we're in -- hell, even my chances of ever getting tenure once I've got my Ph.D are slim to none); and 2) he spends very little time on campus, preferring to work from home, and I'm only on campus to attend class and work in my very private office for ~25 hours/week. We'd have to make quite an effort to flaunt things and be noticed by much of any one. It's very easy to become anonymous on a 25K student-body campus, most of whom commute and don't give a rat's @ss what goes on on campus either. It's a very ubran, spread out university, very easy to get lost in.

It sounds like you are really close to finishing, right? If so, then it might be OK to go to dinner and talk as colleagues and friends, but be careful of anything more until you have that certificate. Seriously. It's not that long, right? You can make it, I know. After graduation, I think there will be a lot less talk than there might be because you two are so similar in age.


I take your point about exercising caution the sake of his legal case. That's a significant, maybe *the* most significant, consideration at this point.

But frankly, I don't think I have much to lose, or him either, for that matter.

Besides, by early June decisions about our respective lives will have been made long before that, involving either or both of us moving away (and not to the same place). I'd rather take the chance of finding out we're compatible and having a few wonderful months together than waiting til June when it would be a truly untenable and heartwrenching situation.

Given those circumstances, would you wait?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am absolutely bowled over by the generosity of spirit and willingness of you all to share your insights with me during this most angsty, deliciously-scary period of time. However small you may think your contribution is, please know that it's doing *bunches* to help me sort this out. All the suggestions have been excellent and have merit. Thank you all sooooo much.

32 hours and counting ... oy.
 
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I think erika has it right! Take her advice (she's always been right on with me) and go for it! Good luck!
 
Wow, I haven't been this gitty with antisipation about a thread in a long time, lol. I don't have much advice to give you except do what your heart tells you. I will be sitting at my computer (if the kids allow) waiting for your post.

I wish you the best of luck and will send you all the good vibes I can. It really sounds like you to would make a great match.
 
WOW. This turned into a pretty cool thread. I was afraid initially that this would turn into one of those 'They say I am one of the nicest people they know so why aren't they into me' threads that clutter the board. Very cool thread. I would put all my chips on the guy being into you. Keep us posted.
 
i'm less wary now

Cool. That's something I wasn't sure on - grad student of undergrad. But sounds like you are a doctoral student well along in her career. Yeah, this removes many of the barriers. 42 year old doctoral student, 44 year old professor. He's not your adviser; in fact, you're not even in his department, right? This is all good. Go for it. I wanna know on Monday too.

(Hope my wariness didn't make you mad! It's easy for people to say "go for it" so I decided to see if the opposite case could hold water. Best wishes to you!)
 
M-Y-Erotica said:
Hope my wariness didn't make you mad! It's easy for people to say "go for it" so I decided to see if the opposite case could hold water.

No worries! I asked for all honest opinions. You have very good reasons for waiting. Believe me, it'd be much easier to just continue toeing the ground in a circle waiting for him to make a move.
 
This thread is why I love Lit and especially the HT forum.

M-Y-Erotica, (neat name btw), I started to have the same thoughts last night (funny how you think about an anonymous person on the Internet). The whole 'wait just a second here' kind of thing. I think part of it was that 'buyers remorse' mentality. Then remembered we're talking about adults here and it seemed better.

Now, eudaemonia, I have to ask a 'girly' question... have you figured out what you'll wear tomorrow? (I know you've thinking about it!) ;)


Also, welcome to Lit and to the HT forum to all new folks. :rose:
 
Cathleen said:
Now, eudaemonia, I have to ask a 'girly' question... have you figured out what you'll wear tomorrow? (I know you've thinking about it!) ;)


Also, welcome to Lit and to the HT forum to all new folks. :rose:

Good question Cathleen! Yes Eudaemonia - what are you going to were? Do you have a favorite perfume you like to wear?

;)
 
LOL!!! Get outta my head you two! :catroar:

Of *course* I've thought about what I'm wearing!!! I'm going to wear a dress that I feel oh-so feminine and curvy in, and I do indeed have a favorite scent. Get this: it's called Fracas! I think it refers to the affect it has on men, not the way it smells.

Not only the above, but I've spent part the day shopping for just the right new shade of lipstick given that I've gone to black-black hair recently (the more to make my blue-gray eyes stand out), and plan on giving myself a nice manicure and pedicure before bedtime.

Speaking of which, I hope I can sleep tonight.

You guys, all of you, are so great. Welcome to all the newcomers, as Cathleen mentioned.

Anyone else care to share their "go for it" episode? How did it turn out? Any regrets? Maybe I should start a new thread???
 
I just have to tell you I'm excited for you! If it isn't happening in my life I might as well live vicariously through you. ;)

I *knew* you'd be doing the girly stuff, that's what we do. :rose:
 
eudaemonia said:
{{{Cathleen}}}

Thanks for being my cheerleader ... :rose:
You're welcome. It's quite fun. :rose: I have to say - I live your sig line. I am lucky in so many ways.

(And I'm Cate, or variations thereof if you prefer - your choice, everyone's choice.)
 
eudaemonia said:
LOL!!! Get outta my head you two! :catroar:

Of *course* I've thought about what I'm wearing!!! I'm going to wear a dress that I feel oh-so feminine and curvy in, and I do indeed have a favorite scent. Get this: it's called Fracas! I think it refers to the affect it has on men, not the way it smells.

Not only the above, but I've spent part the day shopping for just the right new shade of lipstick given that I've gone to black-black hair recently (the more to make my blue-gray eyes stand out), and plan on giving myself a nice manicure and pedicure before bedtime.

Speaking of which, I hope I can sleep tonight.

You guys, all of you, are so great. Welcome to all the newcomers, as Cathleen mentioned.

Anyone else care to share their "go for it" episode? How did it turn out? Any regrets? Maybe I should start a new thread???

Well wish I could be a fly on the wall - but since I can't will have to wait till tonight to hear how it went. Please know I'm root'n for you!

:)
 
Oy!

Only an hour-and-a-half to go before his office hours. I'm doing my best to choke down some breakfast so I don't faint on the spot right in front of him.

More coffee, more coffee ... yeah, that's it! Something to *steady* my nerves. :rolleyes:

Time to hit the shower.

Thanks for all the best wishes, everyone. :heart: I'll post soonest.

...eee
 
eudaemonia said:
Only an hour-and-a-half to go before his office hours. I'm doing my best to choke down some breakfast so I don't faint on the spot right in front of him.

More coffee, more coffee ... yeah, that's it! Something to *steady* my nerves. :rolleyes:

Time to hit the shower.

Thanks for all the best wishes, everyone. :heart: I'll post soonest.

...eee

Relax - it's all good.

What a delicious romance - have fun today!

Much luck to you :rose:
 
LadyJeanne said:
Relax - it's all good.

What a delicious romance - have fun today!

Much luck to you :rose:
eudaemonia, you certainly have created a spark and buzz here ~ it's great fun.

Now spill it girl... details, please! ;)
 
Cathleen said:
eudaemonia, you certainly have created a spark and buzz here ~ it's great fun.

Now spill it girl... details, please! ;)


Oh yes I'm waiting tooo!!!!!

Or maybe he said yes???? and they are at dinner now? or maybe somewhere else?


:kiss:
 
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