Asking for more

[Etoile]

I had to do a hard thing today: I asked for more. This required getting past the response that has been trained into me - that giving what Daddy wants is enough. In recent months things have gotten very laid-back, very routine...and that's not what I want. It's like when someone says "they're not the person I married anymore" - that's kind of how I feel. But I had such a problem about feeling this way! I love my Daddy regardless, so shouldn't I be happy to have the nice relationship and be providing what's asked of me, even if I want to give more?

That's why it was so hard for me to say something. For a long time I thought I wasn't supposed to ask for anything. I'm still not sure it's appropriate for me to ask for a change in behavior from Daddy, when that was always asked of me. But I want back what we had. I'm afraid, though...what if that just isn't who Daddy is anymore? What if the sadist has gone away for good? Will asking for more wind up driving a wedge between us?

I'm so worried about what response I'll get. I am more secure in the relationship than I have been in the past (I have lived in fear of rejection, for internal and external reasons), but I'm still afraid of what's going to happen. But I have conquered the fear I had of even asking for more, and all I can do now is see what happens.

edit: I should probably mention for those who don't already know this: my Daddy doesn't use male pronouns. Not all Daddies are biological males! Mine is...ambiguous.

 

[INSIDEYOURMIND]

I see your issue, and understand your concerns.

My suggestion to you would be to respectfully ask your PYL for a chance to discuss things.

Turn it around a bit, ask him if you are not doing enough for him, are there areas that you can improve for him, tell him how important the structure he provides is to you. Tell him all the things he has done in the past that made you feel safe and secure.

I am certainly not suggesting you top from the bottom, but if you show him what your submission means to you, he will appreciate and continue.

This relationship is no different than any other, communicate, and when all else fails, comminicate.

 

[Netzach]

There's this perfect slave myth, the slave with absolutely all needs externally fulfilled, who has *no* needs of her own other than to please and obey and do whatever Master/Mistress wants.

I've not met one who's actually like this and I don't know that I'd want to. Everyone has needs.

A slave who claims to be like this is either lying to himself or lying to his top.

It's a nice direction to *strive* for, but it's like being perfect. It's never going to actually happen, and it's healthy to know that.

 

[Panache1957]

Good evening Etoile

I had to do a hard thing today: I asked for more. This required getting past the response that has been trained into me - that giving what Daddy wants is enough. In recent months things have gotten very laid-back, very routine...and that's not what I want. It's like when someone says "they're not the person I married anymore" - that's kind of how I feel. But I had such a problem about feeling this way! I love my Daddy regardless, so shouldn't I be happy to have the nice relationship and be providing what's asked of me, even if I want to give more?

That's why it was so hard for me to say something. For a long time I thought I wasn't supposed to ask for anything. I'm still not sure it's appropriate for me to ask for a change in behavior from Daddy, when that was always asked of me. But I want back what we had. I'm afraid, though...what if that just isn't who Daddy is anymore? What if the sadist has gone away for good? Will asking for more wind up driving a wedge between us?

I'm so worried about what response I'll get. I am more secure in the relationship than I have been in the past (I have lived in fear of rejection, for internal and external reasons), but I'm still afraid of what's going to happen. But I have conquered the fear I had of even asking for more, and all I can do now is see what happens.

So we meet again..I'm so glad!

This "problem" stems from neglecting the basics. I have always had my sub put in writing the things she needs for her to be "complete", that way I can strive to do my part to keep her happy, satisfied, and fufilled. This also speaks to the trust and devotion needed to accomplish cumming on command. The fact of your present relationship I fear is that your Daddy was never the "One" you wanted. You allowed yourself to imbue him with the traits you desired him to have. If I read your post correctly you seem to need more of a sadist to compliment your masiochists tendencies. If he has started to wane, it was never who he was in the first place. I don't want to come off as negative, however people can only "play" a part for a finite period of time and then the "real" person emerges. If you have to ask for more, it eventually will lead to frustration on both parts.

 

[Chicklet]

I think that it was right for you to tell your Daddy that you wanted more. Sitting back and letting the routine take over your lives could have built up more bad feelings in you... like, resentment that you weren't getting what you really craved out of the relationship. The only way to ensure this from not happening was to voice exactly how you felt, and while I know that that's a *very* hard thing for anyone in *any* relationship to do, not just a D/s relationship, sitting back and letting yourself be unhappy is really a passive-aggressive way to go.

So I say "well done. way to go. you did the right thing."

Will it create more of a drift between the two of you? None of us knows that. If it does, though, then it's going to be a better drift than would have inevitably (please excuse my spelling) formed by your silence.

My feelings are with you.

 

[Caitlynne]

There's this perfect slave myth, the slave with absolutely all needs externally fulfilled, who has *no* needs of her own other than to please and obey and do whatever Master/Mistress wants.

I've not met one who's actually like this and I don't know that I'd want to. Everyone has needs.

A slave who claims to be like this is either lying to himself or lying to his top.

It's a nice direction to *strive* for, but it's like being perfect. It's never going to actually happen, and it's healthy to know that.

Amen!

Not to mention the fact that if you deny you have needs, you are then lying to your Dom/me. You many not get the answers you want, but you [IMHO] should communicate your needs anyway. THAT is not as easy as it sounds, for all the reasons you stated so well Etolie, but the truth is, you do have needs. We all do.

One of my needs is to at least be able to express my needs. It's not always about getting what I need, but it has always been about the freedom to express them [at the right time of course]. It's part of being open and honest for me-- Part of revealing all of myself to Him. Course it helps that I'm encouraged to do so, it makes it a little easier, but I've learned that even if service to a Dom/me does make you happy.. you can still have needs.

We are all complex human beings, our needs ebb and flow with time and circumstance. Just as a Dom/me isn't perfect [did I say that?], neither are we sub/slaves.

Good luck!!! I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[Caitlynne]

If he has started to wane, it was never who he was in the first place. I don't want to come off as negative, however people can only "play" a part for a finite period of time and then the "real" person emerges.

Well, this could be the case, and if it is, I agree. One can only role play for so long, eventually the real person emerges.

But, it could be a passing thing too. Dom's aren't perfect and they can slip into their own set of depressions and RL stress. Which is another good reason to communicate. A sub needs to know the difference. The former is a lie of sorts while the latter is a phase that needs to be accepted and understood.

Either way, a sub needs to speak up. Of course it should be in a respectful manner and it should be arranged ahead of time so that both can listen and speak their own truth.

But it should be communicated IMHO.

 

[Recidiva]

So we meet again..I'm so glad!

This "problem" stems from neglecting the basics. I have always had my sub put in writing the things she needs for her to be "complete", that way I can strive to do my part to keep her happy, satisfied, and fufilled. This also speaks to the trust and devotion needed to accomplish cumming on command. The fact of your present relationship I fear is that your Daddy was never the "One" you wanted. You allowed yourself to imbue him with the traits you desired him to have. If I read your post correctly you seem to need more of a sadist to compliment your masiochists tendencies. If he has started to wane, it was never who he was in the first place. I don't want to come off as negative, however people can only "play" a part for a finite period of time and then the "real" person emerges. If you have to ask for more, it eventually will lead to frustration on both parts.

The problem can also come from oversimplifying people so they look like they can be shaved down so everything fits easily into one category.

People change over time and needs, requirements and growth means that constant renegotiation always be an option.

Not wanting to come off as negative means you don't. That means you tell someone that change is possible and you're in control of it, not that people are set in stone and you're the one with the answers.

 

[Panache1957]

The problem can also come from oversimplifying people so they look like they can be shaved down so everything fits easily into one category.

People change over time and needs, requirements and growth means that constant renegotiation always be an option.

Not wanting to come off as negative means you don't. That means you tell someone that change is possible and you're in control of it, not that people are set in stone and you're the one with the answers.

WOW! was it something I said?

 

[Recidiva]

WOW! was it something I said?

Yep!

 

[Panache1957]

Yep!

I only speak from my own experiences and obviously you are much wiser than I

 

[Recidiva]

I only speak from my own experiences and obviously you are much wiser than I

Well, if you've met people who never change, and I change, then I'm glad I could broaden your experience. It was a pleasure.

 

[bullaford]

Well, this could be the case, and if it is, I agree. One can only role play for so long, eventually the real person emerges.

But, it could be a passing thing too. Dom's aren't perfect and they can slip into their own set of depressions and RL stress. Which is another good reason to communicate. A sub needs to know the difference. The former is a lie of sorts while the latter is a phase that needs to be accepted and understood.

Either way, a sub needs to speak up. Of course it should be in a respectful manner and it should be arranged ahead of time so that both can listen and speak their own truth.

But it should be communicated IMHO.

What Caitlynne said .....

Just let me add, sometimes when people do slip into a rut, the ones they care about the most tend to be put on the back burner because they think that the loved one will always be there. Before long, you don't realize that you have slipped and that it is even an issue.

Etoile, people whether Dom or sub or other sometimes need to be reminded of what is important to them and their loved ones. I think you did a good thing by approaching your Daddy. Your Daddy should be proud of you too, you conquered a great fear and spoke up for yourself. Be proud of yourself E.

Bull

 

[Etoile]

The fact of your present relationship I fear is that your Daddy was never the "One" you wanted. You allowed yourself to imbue him with the traits you desired him to have. If I read your post correctly you seem to need more of a sadist to compliment your masiochists tendencies. If he has started to wane, it was never who he was in the first place. I don't want to come off as negative, however people can only "play" a part for a finite period of time and then the "real" person emerges. If you have to ask for more, it eventually will lead to frustration on both parts.

Hi Panache,

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. We haven't talked much, and you're assuming a lot about me and my Daddy, so I'll briefly summarize my relationship situation. I have been with my wife for 7¾ years, and I have been with my Daddy (by the way, I don't use male pronouns for em, not all Daddies are biological males) for 5½ years. We have been a triad for about three years.

Also, you have assumed that Daddy was pretending. I don't think that's the case, not at all. E has been out of work for more than a year and a half, and has become a bit of a hermit. E lives alone and has few local friends, and has always been an outsider, so e's just out of the habit of noticing other people's reactions. I think that's why things have changed between us.

I didn't want this thread to be about my Daddy - it's more about breaking through my own fears and thoughts about what is and isn't okay.

 

[Etoile]

You many not get the answers you want, but you [IMHO] should communicate your needs anyway.

Now that is a really excellent point. Thank you, Caitlynne. You're right, it's not about whether I get what I want...it's about the fact that I've stated it. I love my Daddy regardless, and I think e knows that. I have expressed my desire for more, but whether I get it or not, I still know my place in our relationship.

 

[Etoile]

Not wanting to come off as negative means you don't. That means you tell someone that change is possible and you're in control of it, not that people are set in stone and you're the one with the answers.

Thank you, Recidiva - that was kind of how I felt, too. I think Panache meant well, but made a lot of assumptions without knowing me, my Daddy, or the full situation. That's okay, though; I've explained it now.

 

[Recidiva]

Thank you, Recidiva - that was kind of how I felt, too. I think Panache meant well, but made a lot of assumptions without knowing me, my Daddy, or the full situation. That's okay, though; I've explained it now.

Good. I'm just a fill in the blanks person. The more options you have, the happier I will be for you. Some things are organic and take their time to become clear.

Sometimes they're like Yoga poses. You hold the position you are in until you can't hold it any more and you have to rest, and a new position will suggest itself.

Sometimes it's like winter and it seems nothing new will grow.

Patience with yourself and with times of change is sometimes the best gift you can give yourself.

I've seen a lot of people ruin growth in their own lives by impatience and trampling fertile ground by pacing or frantic worrying or essentially doing the equivalent of digging up seeds to see if they're growing. They rip the heart out of their chests to see if it's beating, and then when it isn't any more, of course it hurt and they were right, they're dead inside now.

Just avoid the self fulfilling prophecy, it's a bitch.

 

[Netzach]

E has been out of work for more than a year and a half, and has become a bit of a hermit. E lives alone and has few local friends, and has always been an outsider, so e's just out of the habit of noticing other people's reactions. I think that's why things have changed between us.

That would be cause for a major depression among all the people I know.

Yes people change. Sometimes everyone gets sick or has problems. I certainly wasn't pretending to be something other than vanilla until I had a crohn's flare

 

[Netzach]

Good. I'm just a fill in the blanks person. The more options you have, the happier I will be for you. Some things are organic and take their time to become clear.

Sometimes they're like Yoga poses. You hold the position you are in until you can't hold it any more and you have to rest, and a new position will suggest itself.

Sometimes it's like winter and it seems nothing new will grow.

Patience with yourself and with times of change is sometimes the best gift you can give yourself.

I've seen a lot of people ruin growth in their own lives by impatience and trampling fertile ground by pacing or frantic worrying or essentially doing the equivalent of digging up seeds to see if they're growing. They rip the heart out of their chests to see if it's beating, and then when it isn't any more, of course it hurt and they were right, they're dead inside now.

Just avoid the self fulfilling prophecy, it's a bitch.

I want to bronze this post.

 

[Caitlynne]

Now that is a really excellent point. Thank you, Caitlynne. You're right, it's not about whether I get what I want...it's about the fact that I've stated it. I love my Daddy regardless, and I think e knows that. I have expressed my desire for more, but whether I get it or not, I still know my place in our relationship.

Oh, I'm so glad I could be of some help.

 

[DustyWolfe]

Etoile,

I understand that your reason for this post is about you and not your Daddy. Let's see if I make any sense at all in my response.

First, I want to say that it's not unreasonable to make suggestions or ask for something. Just because you ask doesn't mean you will get it, but it certainly didn't hurt to ask (at least beyond the anxiety of asking). Remember, we enter into these relationships willingly and you have a voice.

If you continue to feel that you need something more for an extended period of time you will run the risk of changing the way you respond to him or even losing interest. It's better to step up and try to change things before the dynamics of the relationship die.

I wouldn't worry so much about driving a wedge between the two of you by your asking for more. Chances are that E will appreciate the fact that you spoke up. There's also a possibility that E didn't realize you weren't having your needs filled.

To level with you Etoile... Chances are that his Sadistic side might be gone temporarily due to Eirs situation (because E might be depressed or is uncomfortable by the slight lack of control in Eirs life due to being unemployed). If that's the case Eir headspace might not come back till E is employed and feeling more in control of Eirs situation again.

I know it's hard to ask for more and that there are so many fears involved in asking such a question but despite how much you care about/love Em there may come a time when not asking this could jeopardize the relationship. I know you think that your Daddy's needs are most important, but some way, somehow you have to have what you need.

I admire you for being able to ask, I know it would be extremely hard for me to do what you did.

 

[Recidiva]

I want to bronze this post.

This made me happy

 

[Etoile]

I got a response. As usual it was pretty terse. Apparently I've been doing so well with my training that Daddy has been feeling satisfied and comfortable with things. So I explained exactly what I am looking for, specific things that I miss about the way we used to be. And I said that I understand that e doesn't have to give me the things I want, but I wanted to at least let em know what those things were. We'll see where it goes from here.

I feel good about this. Still slightly nervous, but good.

 

[Caitlynne]

I got a response. As usual it was pretty terse. Apparently I've been doing so well with my training that Daddy has been feeling satisfied and comfortable with things. So I explained exactly what I am looking for, specific things that I miss about the way we used to be. And I said that I understand that e doesn't have to give me the things I want, but I wanted to at least let em know what those things were. We'll see where it goes from here.

I feel good about this. Still slightly nervous, but good.

Well it is scary in a way, but I'm so proud of you. I really am.

I sincerely hope that E listens and considers your requests.

 

[serijules]

I don't have anything constructive to add Etoile, but I just wanted to post and tell you that you are not alone in this situation, and the way you have handled it has been an inspiration to me.