Are you Ever Tempted????

[Lust Engine]

Wow... nicely stated there sheath!

I'm inclined to agree with ya here. While polygamy is fine for some it's not okay with others. To pass judgment on one lifestyle doesn't exactly make the other better. By extolling the virtues of why it works for YOU, no one can deny you of those things. No need to judge others though... be proud of your accomplishments & pursue your own happiness, James. We still respect ya.

 

[James G 5]

I was not, and never have, condemed monogamy for those who want to practice it. I've stated repeadtedly that for SOME people it is a viable, workable, happy option. My statement was simply a reflection of how sad I am to see EVERYONE automatically jump in to insist on monogamy as the ONLY answe in this situation. No one even SUGGESTED the possibility of exploring her feelings elsewhere**. THAT was what was depressingly typical, not monogamy itself.
I stated some reasons why being open is good. What always upsets me is that monogamists approach things from the perspective that THEIR way is right, and in fact the ONLY way. You yourself told me you believe it's intrinsically better. Then you all expect me to defend MY point of view while rarely, if ever, offering any cogent reasoning behind your choice. Then I am told *I* am condescending or rude or insulting when I react to the condescension you show me, treating my point of view as tho I were an abberant child (and I am not refering to you specificlaly Sheath dear, as you know I adore you, but some of the rancor in your post and certainly other attacks I have encountered here show the feeling that I am someone who is speaking out of turn about things he doesn't undertand).
Given this, I may come across as judgemental or angry, for such a strident tone will tend to arise in anyone who is so often not listened to or mocked despite the reason of his stance.
We have spoken before about how people read in to the things other say based on their beliefs. Did I at any time say monogamy was not an option? No. Did I say monogamy was always bad or would always fail? No. What I did was state how common it was that no one offered any alternative, my disgust at the attitude that it's the only right way (which is as demeaning as what you accused me, groundlessly, of), and then I offered an alternative WITH caveats, ethical guidelines, and strong warnings about how it could blow up in someone's face, as an alternative. An alternative, I might add, that I stated takes a lot of work and is not for everyone. And I even said why doing her hubby's coworkers would be bad, his permission aside. So I'm not a completely thoughtless or immoral sex fiend
I am afraid you took my asking you to read & reply as some sort of personal assault or attack. It was never intended that way. Nor am I attacking your ideal of monogamy. I'm just stressing that it's not the ONLY way, and that IN MY OPINION, and contrary to your newly reinforced beliefs, it's not always the best way. I hope your new revelations will not cause you to become as close-minded to my words as some others have been, since it would truly hurt me to lose a developing friendship.
I would encourage you, and anyone else who has read my statements about these matters in the past, to go back and show ANY time where I have said monogamy is intrinisically bad or inferior or that it would never work for anyone (all positions people have taken about poly with me, I might add, usually with anger and rudeness included and little or no justification given). I would also call attention to all the times I have asked someone to give me good reason why monogamy was "better" or "the RIGHT" way, and how on the rare occasions when someone has done so & I refuted their arguments they didn't respond further. The assumption that it's "THE" way is what disgusts me and it is that attitude I challenge, and that I feel needs explanation and defense more than my idea that it's NOT the only way.
Like I said, I am working on a long post & thread just for this, I don't want to derail this one entirely. I'm sorry if I upset or offended you Sheath, as that was not my intent. I only hoped to spur some reasoned debate. If my impassioned words and expression of emotion hurt the process I am sorry, but I hate to think one emotional statement that was obviously misinterpreted would completely erase any valid points I make.
Here's a as a peace offering & I hope we can all talk about this civilly AND help Rashashea with her problem rather than diving in to bickering

**I'd also like to note I'm not the only one...Wickid posted some similar thoughts to mine and SHE was immediately misinterpreted as well...*I* knew what she meant, but that's because I was reading her post without the immediate bias of an almost zealotous viewpoint...the monogamist ideal takes such hold that words like hers are immediately dismissed or misunderstood, something I understand all too well...Ever seen the stickers that say "I Hate Bigots" or "I Hate Intolerance"?...Tolerance requires an effort to see other points of view, and it seems like no one was extending that courtesy to Wickid or myself, as they were coming from a place where even looking at our views to understand them would be alien or unthinkable. They don't even understand that they're being intolerant because of a conviction that they're right...but I have ranted on wayyyy too long here

Indeed, what a 'depressing typical' judgment on your part.

Monogamy might not be for you, James, as you have stated numerous times. But to call it all 'depressing typical' is placing judgment on those who have chosen a path that you have decided is simply not for you.

I respect you, James, but the more you discuss monogamy, the more it's obvious that you are DETERMINED to see it your way, and that's it. For someone who demonstrates such tolerance and understanding in other areas, I'm surprised by your condescending tone concerning monogamy.

It's a viable option for some, James. In the future, please make an effort to be more tolerant toward those of us who simply believe that monogamy is okay. Instead of telling us why monogamy is bad, tell us why being poly is good. It brings more people in to think about your position, rather than immediately driving them away with condescending comments.

S.

 

[James G 5]

Wow... nicely stated there sheath!

I'm inclined to agree with ya here. While polygamy is fine for some it's not okay with others. To pass judgment on one lifestyle doesn't exactly make the other better. By extolling the virtues of why it works for YOU, no one can deny you of those things. No need to judge others though... be proud of your accomplishments & pursue your own happiness, James. We still respect ya.

Please see above...wasn't passing judgement on those who choose monogamy, was being tired of people thinking of it as the only way, when the alternative works very well for some of us

I never claimed to be perfect, and I hope folks will understand WHY I get emotional about this at times

 

[SexyChele]

There are some guys that my hubby works with that flirt very suggestively with me, in front of him and behind his back sometimes and I have to admit it really gets my juices flowing. I have often fantasized about meeting up with one of them and then I feel guilty. Do you all have these fantasies?

I think the majority of people do. Fantasies are fun and enjoyable to indulge in. Whether you take it to the next step or not is something that needs to be considered carefully by all involved.

For me, when I'm involved with some one, their friends, family, and co-workers are strictly off-limits. They may flirt with me, but I usually turn that off quickly while still being friendly. But that's just me and came about from being involved with two brothers at the same time. It was not as fun as it sounds and caused more heartbreak for all involved. I don't every want to go back there again, so I've set the "rules" for me. And that also extend to my girlfriend's boyfriends and husbands. If a man is involved with one of my girlfriends, he becomes non-sexual in my mind. For me, it's safer that way and I can still be friendly without the possibility of things going too far.

 

[Lust Engine]

Nicely said Chele!

 

[DuckLover]

Being sexually attracted to people other than your partner is totally normal and in large part biological. I mean really, you're attached, not dead. As a general rule, humans are instinctively 'programmed' to find the opposite sex attractive for the purpose of procreation.

Some anthropologists even believe that human beings, particularly males, are not designed for monogamy. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, merely that it is a serious theory that has been proposed.

Social construct has taught us that one-to-one, typically man-and-woman, connections are to be formed and sanctified. If you choose to follow that route, no problem. But understand that doing so doesn't turn off the millenia of conditioning to see other people as sexually attractive. Fantasizing about sex with others is normal, and it is unlikely to ever go away.

**************

Now, what do you do about that attraction? Whatever you want.

For some people, polyamory is acceptable. Please note previous comments about the importance of open, honest communication with your primary partner on this issue. If you and your primary partner are comfortable with polyamory, feel free to pursue the object(s) of your attraction. Keep in mind that close co-workers and friends pose additional risks.

If, on the other hand, you choose to be monogamous, there are still lots of options. Fantasize about the person while masturbating. Bring the fantasy into bed with your partner without making it a reality (per Sheath's comments). Write a story in which you act out the fantasy. (Please post it if you do!)

Whatever you do, whether your partner is aware or not, it must be something that fits with YOUR moral code and the agreements you have made with others.

 

[James G 5]

Hell of a cool post
I'd just like to add that more recent animal studies show females are just as likely to be non-monogamous but in different, and often more deceptive fashions, than males
Some human studies appear to back this as well

Being sexually attracted to people other than your partner is totally normal and in large part biological. I mean really, you're attached, not dead. As a general rule, humans are instinctively 'programmed' to find the opposite sex attractive for the purpose of procreation.

Some anthropologists even believe that human beings, particularly males, are not designed for monogamy. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, merely that it is a serious theory that has been proposed.

Social construct has taught us that one-to-one, typically man-and-woman, connections are to be formed and sanctified. If you choose to follow that route, no problem. But understand that doing so doesn't turn off the millenia of conditioning to see other people as sexually attractive. Fantasizing about sex with others is normal, and it is unlikely to ever go away.

**************

Now, what do you do about that attraction? Whatever you want.

For some people, polyamory is acceptable. Please note previous comments about the importance of open, honest communication with your primary partner on this issue. If you and your primary partner are comfortable with polyamory, feel free to pursue the object(s) of your attraction. Keep in mind that close co-workers and friends pose additional risks.

If, on the other hand, you choose to be monogamous, there are still lots of options. Fantasize about the person while masturbating. Bring the fantasy into bed with your partner without making it a reality (per Sheath's comments). Write a story in which you act out the fantasy. (Please post it if you do!)

Whatever you do, whether your partner is aware or not, it must be something that fits with YOUR moral code and the agreements you have made with others.

 

[tendril]

Yes, great post DuckLover...

......can I just add that how you go about dealing with a desire to be sexually involved with more than person changes as you move through life.

During the time I had my two children my 'nesting stage' I had absolutely no desire to include more than one partner in my life.

Ahhh..needless to say I am at a new life stage now

 

[James G 5]

Re: Yes, great post DuckLover...

......can I just add that how you go about dealing with a desire to be sexually involved with more than person changes as you move through life.

During the time I had my two children my 'nesting stage' I had absolutely no desire to include more than one partner in my life.

Ahhh..needless to say I am at a new life stage now

I had that conversation with someoneshe talked about how she would never want anything but monogamy and I said "Talk to me in 10 years"

 

[Owlz]

And nothing against ramen noodles either.

I loved ramen noodles in my college days...still do, on rare occasions.

 

[BirdsWife]

Hell of a cool post
I'd just like to add that more recent animal studies show females are just as likely to be non-monogamous but in different, and often more deceptive fashions, than males
Some human studies appear to back this as well

Would you please explain what you mean by "different and often more deceptive fashions"?

 

[Lust Engine]

I loved ramen noodles in my college days...still do, on rare occasions.

I do too but not at the expense of having to pay the consequences (in reference to my earlier post about being tempted to get a Lamborghini).

Y'know what...I'm tempted to have them for lunch today now that you mention it.

 

[James G 5]

Would you please explain what you mean by "different and often more deceptive fashions"?

Certainly. The perception has long been that males are genetically driven to mate with as many females as possible in order to distribute their genetic material as widely as possible. This was backed up in studies of animal populations (please note I said this was based primarily on animal studies, not human) that pair-mate for life, including several species of birds, some wolves, and especially primates, chiefly the bonobos which are genetically closest to humans.
It was found that young males engaged in more and more frequent sexual intercourse with unatached females and that several of the pair-mated males would still go off to mate with other females when the opportunity arose. This led to the formulation of the profligate male paired with the monogamous female and the idea that the female was genetically programmed to seek monogamy in the interests of stability and a system devoted to protecting & raising her children.
More recent studies and longer observations have shown that the females tend instead to seek out a male who will be a good partner & provider but not necessarily have the strongest genetics. The females will then sneak off and find a stronger/more agressive/more desireable male, attempt to become pregnant by him, then present the offsrping as her mate's own in order to have him contribute to raising said offsrping. Seems that what are the most desireable charachteristics genetically (bigger, stronger, more aggresive, etc) are not necessarily the best charachteristics as far as a provider is concerned.
It's a truism that males get caught at cheating more than females (in humans). People talk about how guys are more obvious, etc etc. That might be because we're all just acting on this genetic drive. The argument here is always that we're thinking beings, nto animals. True, but our sex drive is roughly the third strongest biological drive behind breathing & food and if we don't understand these things it's harder to act on them rationally, which might explain how some of this deception can play out with people.
Two points of for-instance, with increased use of genetic testing for various things I have read a recent study that suggested 1 in 5 American families have children that do not belong to the man who thinks he's the biological father. That's a fairly high amount there, and generally the man has no clue. Second, there's the oft-cited statistic of 80% or so of married men cheating, but only 30-40% of married women. What's being discovered thru various means (coming out in things like the genetic tests, divorce trials, studies with people who're willing to be more open) is that number is much higher but women have been unwilling to be honest about their affairs, even in anonymous surveys where most of those numbers used to be gathered, so the percentge of women shown has been lower. Additionally, it's just math...that's a LOT of guys, and it follows they can't ALL be sleeping with the same small pool of women. Given the percentage of the population that's married at any given time, that means a good number of the men who're cheating are probably doing so with married women, who're almost certainly not telling their husbands about it.
Also, in general married men cheat for a sexual thrill, married women do it becuase of a feeling of a lack in relationships. Therefore guys are more likely to come clean ("It was only SEX") since they see it as less important.
So I would stand by my statement that women are programmed on several levels to be more decpetive about cheating. Not saying women in general are more deceptive or more likely to cheat, mind you. But the fashion in which they go about these things is different than males and contributes more to concealment.
There's a wonderful book called "The Myth of Monogamy" that discusses a lot of these issues from the point of view of a scientist & therapist husband/wife couple. A good chunk of this info comes from there.

 

[James G 5]

I do too but not at the expense of having to pay the consequences (in reference to my earlier post about being tempted to get a Lamborghini).

Y'know what...I'm tempted to have them for lunch today now that you mention it.

I about lived on those things for so long I am not tempted at ALL.

 

[Wickid Cherry Pie]

Would you please explain what you mean by "different and often more deceptive fashions"?

Well, I'm not the original poster of the above quote, but I can share what vein I read this in.
Men will often act more impulsively on their desires to be unfaithful without thinking about repurcussionc. Also, I think men are more adept at keeping things on a sexual level.
Women, on the other hand, may start an affair based on lust, but I think in most situations it eventually turns into wanting something more. Maybe not commitment, but sometime of emotional connection.
One other thing that I've noticed, men will seem to be honest with the women they cheat with, letting them know that they have a GF wife or whatever.
Women tend to concel this a litlle more.
Whether this is what DuckLover meant or not, I don't know. This is just what I get out of the statement.

 

[James G 5]

Well, I'm not the original poster of the above quote, but I can share what vein I read this in.
Men will often act more impulsively on their desires to be unfaithful without thinking about repurcussionc. Also, I think men are more adept at keeping things on a sexual level.
Women, on the other hand, may start an affair based on lust, but I think in most situations it eventually turns into wanting something more. Maybe not commitment, but sometime of emotional connection.
One other thing that I've noticed, men will seem to be honest with the women they cheat with, letting them know that they have a GF wife or whatever.
Women tend to concel this a litlle more.
Whether this is what DuckLover meant or not, I don't know. This is just what I get out of the statement.

My post, not DuckLover's
But you backed up a big chunk of what I said, thanks

 

[lorddragonwolf]

we all have fantasies. and the only way i will be with another woman is if my wife is there with me.

 

[FFhotwife]

I have been with my husband for 15 1/2 years (6 years dating, 9 1/2 married) and from the very first moment I laid my eyes on him I really haven't noticed anyone else. Yes, there are a few guys that I think are sexy but nobody that I would like to ruin my relationship with. Sorry If I am no help. I just want to tell you that what you are feeling is normal, acting it out is not. Good luck.

 

[BirdsWife]

So I would stand by my statement that women are programmed on several levels to be more decpetive about cheating. Not saying women in general are more deceptive or more likely to cheat, mind you. But the fashion in which they go about these things is different than males and contributes more to concealment.

This is what I wanted you to clarify. I interpreted the original statement as saying that women in general are more deceptive because they are genetically programmed that way.

I personally don't think genetics plays much role at all in this. I believe the main reason women tend to remain more closed mouthed about it is due to societal pressures. Even in this day and age a man, married or not, who has many partners is labeled a stud, while a woman who has the same proclivity to bed many men is still considered a slut. And if she's married, well, then she should be stoned to death--and in some countries, she is.

A good example of this continuing double standard is the recent controversy on Patricia's XTC thread at the Am Pics board. Someone posted a very harsh criticism of her for the lifestyle she leads, but outside of Lit this is the way the majority of society would see her. The critic, from what posts of his I did bother to read, however, only condemns her (and her husband for "allowing" her to behave the way she does). He doesn't say much about the dozens of men, some of them most likely married, that she is with in the photos he complains about.

Anyway, I know this is getting off the track of the original subject, but I just wanted to get my $.02 in.

 

[BirdsWife]

Men will often act more impulsively on their desires to be unfaithful without thinking about repurcussionc. Also, I think men are more adept at keeping things on a sexual level.
Women, on the other hand, may start an affair based on lust, but I think in most situations it eventually turns into wanting something more. Maybe not commitment, but sometime of emotional connection.

This, too, I believe has more to do with societal influences than genetics. Women (in general) are raised to believe that love and sex are one in the same, that you can't have one without the other, while men aren't. It is expected that "boys will be boys" who will sow their wild oats, while girls are taught to want the fairytale romance instead.

 

[MissIntrigue]

Hell, I am a single woman and I am tempted to 'do' a few on my own with no one to answer to. But I have to look at me in the mirror also.
Sheath-well said , very well said...as I stand with everyone on the thread concerning monogamy.....

 

[warrior queen]

monogamy is totally cool - if that's what you're into.

personally, i want to experience every single thing i can before i get too old and regret not doing it.

so monogamy, while ok for some, is not on my list of priorities.

 

[spartacus2000]

In response to:

More recent studies and longer observations have shown that the females tend instead to seek out a male who will be a good partner & provider but not necessarily have the strongest genetics. The females will then sneak off and find a stronger/more agressive/more desireable male, attempt to become pregnant by him, then present the offsrping as her mate's own in order to have him contribute to raising said offsrping. Seems that what are the most desireable charachteristics genetically (bigger, stronger, more aggresive, etc) are not necessarily the best charachteristics as far as a provider is concerned.

************

Maybe it isn't genetics at all, it could just be that the stronger/more aggressive bonobos are a better fuck....

It would be interesting to hear the scientific community explain that study...LOL

Sorry James G 5, I couldn't resist.

 

[Lust Engine]

I about lived on those things for so long I am not tempted at ALL.

You gotta admit, they got us through some lean times.

 

[burrish]

right now with the way hubby is treating me i could say yes to just about any man right ow, maybe even woman