Are you ever "justified" in using a racial slur?

[Ulaven_Demorte]

I'm not talking about "joking around" with someone.

I mean hurling a racial epithet at someone in "retribution" for their use of a slur against you.

i.e. Two people are arguing, debating, fighting... One calls the other a racial slur, the second person immediately responds in kind, calling the first person a racial slur.

Is the second person justified in his or her reaction to the first or is his or her action just as deplorable as the other?

In short: Would you accept a "He said it first." defense from an adult?

Poll incoming

 

[sr71plt]

No, as you explain it in the posting. But as stated in the thread head--on a writer's site--yes, when that goes with the foundation of a character and, for the story line, that needs to be established as central to that character's persona.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

No, as you explain it in the posting. But as stated in the thread head--on a writer's site--yes, when that goes with the foundation of a character and, for the story line, that needs to be established as central to that character's persona.

I'm not talking about writing a character.

I'm talking real world here, real opinions.

 

[3113]

I mean hurling a racial epithet at someone in "retribution" for their use of a slur against you.

Absolutely not. Their racial slur implies bigotry and hatred not toward one person, but toward an entire group. And if you reply in kind, you are expressing the same bigotry and hated toward not THIS one numbskull, but, again, an entire group.

If you don't like them tarring everyone of your color/sex/ethnicity/religion with one brush, then you shouldn't do the same. There are plenty of names to call an idiot without resorting to the same stupidity that they use.

 

[Darkniciad]

As tit-for-tat? Nope. I'd say you make more of an impact to avoid the easy road and tell them how wrong/useless/stupid they are in more creative ways, if you can't just beat them over the head with fact and common sense instead.

At the point where a race/gender/appearance/etc. slur would enter the picture, the argument is pretty much a waste of time anyhow. May as well entertain yourself a little by thinking of creatively demeaning epithets to hurl in what has degenerated into a poo-flinging match anyhow.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not talking about writing a character.

I'm talking real world here, real opinions.

I answered that right off the top in my response. But your thread head is misleading for a writer's site, I think.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Absolutely not. Their racial slur implies bigotry and hatred not toward one person, but toward an entire group. And if you reply in kind, you are expressing the same bigotry and hated toward not THIS one numbskull, but, again, an entire group.

If you don't like them tarring everyone of your color/sex/ethnicity/religion with one brush, then you shouldn't do the same. There are plenty of names to call an idiot without resorting to the same stupidity that they use.

Ulaven Demorte is leaving out the fact that several people have called me "nigger" without any provocation in the General Board when they were losing arguments, and were never criticized for it, least of all by Ulaven Demorte.

Ulaven Demorte only found a problem with it when I retaliated at the instigators.

His "outrage" is one-sided - especially considering his "wife" recidiva made this comment (another fact he has left out):

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23475259&postcount=131

I have a black brother in law. He says "I hate fucking niggers." To him, nigger is a state of mind. I've gotta say, you match his idea of nigger.

So basically, if calling someone a racial slur out of retaliation is wrong, then what is calling someone a racial slur without provocation?

 

[Liar]

If someone slaps you (not attacks so you have to defend yourself, just leaves a nice stingy palm print in your face), are you justified to slap back?

 

[Le Jacquelope]

If someone slaps you (not attacks so you have to defend yourself, just leaves a nice stingy palm print in your face), are you justified to slap back?

Nope, in UD's universe you should ignore being slapped, or tell the authorities - and seeing as we're talking about the GB, the authorities will then call you a crybaby for speaking up about it.

But if you dare slap him back, hooboy.

 

[BBWetKitty]

http://www.tvteez.com/assets/willis.gif

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Ulaven Demorte is leaving out the fact that several people have called me "nigger" without any provocation in the General Board when they were losing arguments, and were never criticized for it, least of all by Ulaven Demorte.

Ulaven Demorte only found a problem with it when I retaliated at the instigators.

His "outrage" is one-sided - especially considering his "wife" recidiva made this comment (another fact he has left out):

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=23475259&postcount=131


So basically, if calling someone a racial slur out of retaliation is wrong, then what is calling someone a racial slur without provocation?

Ah and here I was trying not to identify the person who thought retaliating slur for slur was perfectly acceptable and the results on the GB finding him far in the minority were "not consistent with reality".

My question concerned the person who feels "justified" retaliating in kind. You're perfectly able to make a poll of your own, and I see that you have.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Ah and here I was trying not to identify the person who thought retaliating slur for slur was perfectly acceptable and the results on the GB finding him far in the minority were "not consistent with reality".

My question concerned the person who feels "justified" retaliating in kind. You're perfectly able to make a poll of your own, and I see that you have.

I thought passive aggressiveness was wrong. I was just bringing all the facts into play here.

You contribute to an atmosphere of permissiveness when it comes to hurling nigger insults at me, but when I retaliate to them, you inconsistently blow the whistle.

And I don't care what you say - I have openly called a white man a flaming redneck white trash for calling me a nigger in public and had people on my side, not his. Your polls will thus never be relevant - because the point of view you are pushing does not exist offline. Do you get it? The point of view you are pushing does not exist offline.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, so this is about an incident here. Well, no, still certainly not. But all sorts of posters here, including moderators, use and even initiate foul, purposely demeaning language they probably wouldn't even consider using in the real world. They are just being childish and showing how limited their vocabulary is.

This ain't the real world. This is the Internet.

 

[English Lady]

Hey Ulaven *waves*

I think things happen in the heat of the moment, I think people often find the thing they think will sting most to throw at a person in an argument situation.

I do't think calling someone "fat" "skinny" "gay" "paki" "bimbo" etc etc is nice, I don't think it's called for but I won't immediately expect that person to be an "ist"

(fatist, skinniest,gayist *L*, racist, sexist) just that they're responding in the heat of the moment with something they believe will hithome the most.

I only believe someone to be a racist etc if they constantly, over and over again use those insults in arguments.

Can you justify using a racial slur to make a point, or a sexist slur etc? I think probably yes, though that's an unpopular belief for sure but only if it's used for effect -if the person really means it all just based on a person size/colour/sex etc then it's not acceptable.

And I don't think the example LT quotes is a racist slur at all, just an opinion.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Hey Ulaven *waves*

I think things happen in the heat of the moment, I think people often find the thing they think will sting most to throw at a person in an argument situation.

I do't think calling someone "fat" "skinny" "gay" "paki" "bimbo" etc etc is nice, I don't think it's called for but I won't immediately expect that person to be an "ist"

(fatist, skinniest,gayist *L*, racist, sexist) just that they're responding in the heat of the moment with something they believe will hithome the most.

I only believe someone to be a racist etc if they constantly, over and over again use those insults in arguments.

Can you justify using a racial slur to make a point, or a sexist slur etc? I think probably yes, though that's an unpopular belief for sure but only if it's used for effect -if the person really means it all just based on a person size/colour/sex etc then it's not acceptable.

And I don't think the example LT quotes is a racist slur at all, just an opinion.

In what way do you think it is racist to call someone a nigger? Do they have to burn a cross in one's yard or what?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Ah, so this is about an incident here. Well, no, still certainly not. But all sorts of posters here, including moderators, use and even initiate foul, purposely demeaning language they probably wouldn't even consider using in the real world. They are just being childish and showing how limited their vocabulary is.

This ain't the real world. This is the Internet.

As LovingTongue was so helpful to point out in his last post ("I have openly called a white man a flaming redneck white trash for calling me a nigger in public") my question was about real world hurling of racial epithets. Not internet message board posturing.

Thank you for clarifying the actual incident I was talking about LT. Although, your previous "proof" was calling a young hispanic kid by a demeaning name after he called you a slur.

 

[English Lady]

In what way do you think it is racist to call someone a nigger? Do they have to burn a cross in one's yard or what?

If they mean it, if they use it all the time, if they use it for no reason about anyone, anyone they may even suspect of being "foreign", if they do it unprovoked, like second nature, if everything is the fault of "them asians/blacks/chinese etc etc"

I don't think using a singular slur in the heat of an argument counts, I just think that is self defence and not necesarily clever, but thats the way I see it.

 

[3113]

Ah and here I was trying not to identify the person who thought retaliating slur for slur was perfectly acceptable and the results on the GB finding him far in the minority were "not consistent with reality".

No, actually, you were doing no such thing. You were fudging the facts about the situation in order to get our support. By giving us a one-sided and incorrect explanation of the situation (i.e. hiding the identities, etc.) you pretty much made sure you could say, "Nah, Nah! See I was right! My poll proves it!"

Which makes you far less of an adult than the person who retaliated.

And that pisses me off. Do NOT use us to win your arguments. Do not give us polls that are based on twisted facts and incomplete information. You just made the results of this poll worthless--and you made, me, at least, feel badly used.

That said, my position stands. There are other, better ways to retaliate. BUT if YOU have let people use racial slurs against someone without protest, and ONLY when that person retaliates with a racial slur that YOU don't like do you start up such a poll, then you really haven't much of a leg to stand on. You either are unequivocally against racial slurs however they are used and whenever they are used--and you protest against them, unequivocally, or you let them pass even when they finally offend you. You can't have it both ways.

And that is the ultimate answer to this argument. Now if you're really an adult, you'll apologize for using us so shamelessly, and BOTH OF YOU will take this argument elsewhere. I don't know about the GB boards, but I don't think any of the authors here want to play mom and dad to your childishness. Enough with the fucking name calling! If you can't play nice, get off the internet.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

As LovingTongue was so helpful to point out in his last post my question was about real world hurling of racial epithets. Not internet message board posturing.

Thank you for clarifying the actual incident I was talking about LT. Although, your previous "proof" was calling a young hispanic kid by a demeaning name after he called you a slur.

Yup, he called me a monkey. I called him a jumping bean. His dad made him wash my car after snatching food off a plate in a very rude manner. You should have been there - out of a dozen people you'd be the LONE voice of derision. I've since then had other barbecues with the same crowd, including that hispanic kid's dad.

BTW you have a track record of letting people call me racial slurs without saying a damned word, and without me having ever said one to them. You are a man without any semblance of moral consistency. This whole "retaliation is evil" kick is nothing more than a card you're playing. Your own "wife" called me a nigger via sockpuppet - something she would never do in real life.

Then again this is the internet - you can behave like a shithead here from behind the safety of your keyboard. Including saying "my brother in law would say you're a nigger".

 

[Le Jacquelope]

No, actually, you were doing no such thing. You were fudging the facts about the situation in order to get our support. By giving us a one-sided and incorrect explanation of the situation (i.e. hiding the identities, etc.) you pretty much made sure you could say, "Nah, Nah! See I was right! My poll proves it!"

Which makes you far less of an adult than the person who retaliated.

And that pisses me off. Do NOT use us to win your arguments. Do not give us polls that are based on twisted facts and incomplete information. You just made the results of this poll worthless--and you made, me, at least, feel badly used.

That said, my position stands. There are other, better ways to retaliate. BUT if YOU have let people use racial slurs against someone without protest, and ONLY when that person retaliates with a racial slur that YOU don't like do you start up such a poll, then you really haven't much of a leg to stand on. You either are unequivocally against racial slurs however they are used and whenever they are used--and you protest against them, unequivocally, or you let them pass even when they finally offend you. You can't have it both ways.

And that is the ultimate answer to this argument. Now if you're really an adult, you'll apologize for using us so shamelessly, and BOTH OF YOU will take this argument elsewhere. I don't know about the GB boards, but I don't think any of the authors here want to play mom and dad to your childishness. Enough with the fucking name calling! If you can't play nice, get off the internet.

Ok I agree. I quit.

 

[sr71plt]

Gotta tell you that it's hard to take seriously a spitting match on inflamed name calling between guys with the avatars Ulaven Demorte and Loving Tongue both have slapped on their postings. Just saying, ya know.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I notice that Lovingtongue is on my ignore list.

I do not think that racist epithets are ever justified, and i do not think that sexist epithets are ever justified, and I do not think that any remark that condemns a huge number of people in the person of one-- is justified.

However, I've used racist, sexist and other stereotypical insults myself, when provoked past my ability to think rationally. This happens, even on the internet. People are so...peopleish.

LT, if someone calls you a nigger, you can call him an unimaginative fool and a kneejerk bigot. I just don't see how calling someone a honky (or whatever it was) proves they were actually wrong in what they said about you, yanno?
You have to address the particular form of honkiness that's been exhibited-- to make your protest and/or insult stick.

Diva, the word "Nigger" has not yet lost one iota of its spite and bite. Give it at least one more generation before you try that out, okay love?

 

[MidniteSpanker]

It is very simple

I thought this question had a simple answer:

Don't argue with an idiot. Doing so can only bring you down to their level.

People that use English to communicate don't often have long conversations with non English speaking people (especially if the other person's primary language is English).

Are you going to engage in a long conversation with a person that says "I thunk I seed you downtown, that's why I wretch out and wove at you" I think not.

I personally find it difficult to converse with people who should be able to, but don't, use proper English. Those who use the "new generation" slander to the English language just aren't worth talking to.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

No, actually, you were doing no such thing. You were fudging the facts about the situation in order to get our support. By giving us a one-sided and incorrect explanation of the situation (i.e. hiding the identities, etc.) you pretty much made sure you could say, "Nah, Nah! See I was right! My poll proves it!"

Which makes you far less of an adult than the person who retaliated.

And that pisses me off. Do NOT use us to win your arguments. Do not give us polls that are based on twisted facts and incomplete information. You just made the results of this poll worthless--and you made, me, at least, feel badly used.

That said, my position stands. There are other, better ways to retaliate. BUT if YOU have let people use racial slurs against someone without protest, and ONLY when that person retaliates with a racial slur that YOU don't like do you start up such a poll, then you really haven't much of a leg to stand on. You either are unequivocally against racial slurs however they are used and whenever they are used--and you protest against them, unequivocally, or you let them pass even when they finally offend you. You can't have it both ways.

And that is the ultimate answer to this argument. Now if you're really an adult, you'll apologize for using us so shamelessly, and BOTH OF YOU will take this argument elsewhere. I don't know about the GB boards, but I don't think any of the authors here want to play mom and dad to your childishness. Enough with the fucking name calling! If you can't play nice, get off the internet.

Congratulations, you have bought into an explanation that has no basis in reality.

I used no-one, and never intended to "use" the results to "win". I've already won, the exact same poll was run months ago on the GB by another member and had nothing whatsoever to do with any explanation that has been offered. His opinion was shown to be far in the minority there and explained away by inferring that somehow the people that voted were not representative of the "real world".

Be pissed if you want. The only motive here was to show LT, anonymously, (I never mentioned any names until he revealed himself by trying to defend his actions and openly berating others) that the results of that GB poll would likely be replicated here. That his opinion of being Justified in using racial slurs in retaliation is the minority one.

 

[TE999]

Pardon the intrusion gentlemen, but if this is the sort of nonsense that routinely goes on in the GB, I will never sully myself by going there.

We may have our spats and squabbles in the AH, but we never decend to the level where you to seem to be.

Take your racial slanders and your petty bickerings and be gone.

This thread is offensive to me, and I would imagine many others here.

Adios.