Are you child-free and happy that way?

[SweetErika]

Yeah, kids are like that, but I know some adults who fit that description as well.

I'm of the opinion that obnoxious children tend to be the products of obnoxious parents.

I was amused by this:

Behave or Else

I certainly understand where this guy's coming from. Some of us parents know that not everyone is as fond of our children as we are.

Good article. I'm probably less tolerant because I don't truly know what it's like to have a cranky or rambunctious little one. I understand when kids cry, scream, get away from their parents, etc., but am really put-off when it's prolonged and the parents don't take action.

I figure when we decide to have kids, we're choosing to give up our ability to have uninterrupted meals, easy shopping trips, and go wherever we want. I respect the fact that others have chosen differently with good reason, and feel my choice should impede on theirs as little as possible. So, if I have to miss a destination, pay for a babysitter, get up from a meal, be restricted to the "kiddie/family area," or leave a full shopping cart, tough. My kids can "express themselves" in appropriate places and without ruining the quiet enjoyment of others' spaces.

 

[Vixandra]

I'm of the opinion that obnoxious children tend to be the products of obnoxious parents.

I was amused by this:

Behave or Else

I certainly understand where this guy's coming from. Some of us parents know that not everyone is as fond of our children as we are.

Spiffy artical. And I can agree with it.
I understand that kids will be kids but there's a difference between a kid pouting and one throwing an on the floor, screaming fit.
Or a kid being encouraged to throw things on the floor in a store because mom finds it funny (was soooo close to telling the $#%^@ off it wasn't funny.)


To the topic at hand- I would eventually like two kids. Gender isn't that important, though I'd rather not have two girls but could deal if it happened.
But even stating that- my inlaws and even strangers tell me I should be having them now, ask when we're going to start trying for a baby.
As if that's all a 23 y/o married woman should think of, having a baby

I'll have them when I'm ready or when it happens, whichever comes first. My husband, 25, feels the same way.
Having children, or not having them, isn't a mandatory thing or one that's on a time schedule, its a highly personal individual thing between a couple.

The story of the little boy with the multiple babysitters instead of a real mom makes me want to cry though- that's soooo sad.

 

[Biorgium]

Good article.

This was my favourite quote from it:

Too often, though, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming "a kind of selfish entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a civil community," says George Scarlett, a professor of child development at Tufts University in Boston.

"The rights of any one individual -- whether he or she be a parent, child or stranger -- do not negate the rights of others."

Every day I see evidence of completely self-absorbed, self-entitled people acting without the slightest regard for others around them. It's as if they live in their own little world where the rest of us are either invisible or worthless.

 

[Eilan]

My kids can "express themselves" in appropriate places and without ruining the quiet enjoyment of others' spaces.

Then the question is, "What are some appropriate places for children to express themselves?" I'm guessing you don't consider the produce aisle at the grocery store an appropriate place for self-expression.

Seriously, though, I'm probably a little oversensitive to my kids' behavior and how it affects others. That's why we rarely go out as a family unless we're going to family-friendly places, like certain restaurants or playgrounds. And so on.

 

[Biorgium]

Seriously, though, I'm probably a little oversensitive to my kids' behavior and how it affects others. That's why we rarely go out as a family unless we're going to family-friendly places, like certain restaurants or playgrounds. And so on.

You are a good & considerate person - have a most excellent Christmas!

 

[Eilan]

You are a good & considerate person - have a most excellent Christmas!

Why, thank you. You, too.

 

[EJFan]

Seriously, though, I'm probably a little oversensitive to my kids' behavior and how it affects others. That's why we rarely go out as a family unless we're going to family-friendly places, like certain restaurants or playgrounds. And so on.

this is probably part of most people's "issue" with children... i know it's part of mine. the kids' parents take them places they don't belong... essentially, they either think that the rest of the world should embrace the fact that they reproduced OR they refuse to respect the fact that their having kids isn't going to change their lives in the least; that it'll just be something they tote along on their ordinary routine.

as always, eilan, you have great insight.

 

[Eilan]

OR they refuse to respect the fact that their having kids isn't going to change their lives in the least

I think for some people, this is a lot of it.

Honestly, though, I don't blame the children. They're just doing what children do; the vast majority of two-year-olds, for example, can't sit quietly without making a mess. It's the parents who should know better than to put their kids into situations which are destined to be disastrous for everyone.

 

[EJFan]

...the vast majority of two-year-olds, for example, can't sit quietly without making a mess.

the only reason they make a mess is because they spatter when i step on them.

*gasps!*

 

[Eilan]

the only reason they make a mess is because they spatter when i step on them.

*gasps!*

You evil, evil man.

 

[EJFan]

You evil, evil man.

see... you get it... my strategy is to make all women think i'm a complete jackass, and therefore, undesirable for reproduction. only thing i haven't figured out is how to make them feel that way AND want to have sex with me. it's so a catch-22.

 

[Bandit58]

I'm child free - not because I don't have any but because they are grown now. When my husband and I separated in 2002 my son was 18 and my daughter 14. Son was at university and so he had virtually left home (only coming back for visits) but my daughter was a minor. She chose to stay on the farm with my ex. So I found myself living on my own for basically the first time.

I enjoyed the freedom but missed them both. However the attitude of others, who did not know that my daughter had chosen to stay with her father and that I had not been selfish and abandoned her, was amazing Even after she'd told the school authorities that she was living with her dad, they still were assuming after a year or more that she was living with me! I got so tired of having to explain to people that I was not a "bad mother". She would have been so unhappy away from the farm and her animals, and at 14 she was certainly old enough to choose where she wanted to live. But I'd get people (mainly women) saying "Oh I couldn't do that". Meaning "How could you do that"

Oh and let's not forget the guilt trip my ex tried to lay on me, when I decided to move to Australia to live with Gil She was a few weeks away from her 16th birthday and I'd explained everything to her and she was quite happy about it. I have been back to NZ a couple of times to see both kids, they have cellphones so we can message each other, I phone my daughter once a week or so and my son has computer access so we chat on msn sometimes when he is at work. Plus if anything happens it's only a 3 hour flight if I need to get back in a hurry.

 

[SweetDevil1977]

i'm only 20 and my clock is tickin like a mo-fo... i feel like i really want kids now, but i know that i really need to wait until my life is more stable... there is nothing i want more out of life than a loving husband and children, but i know it's not time for it and it bugs the hell out of me, i don't really like to party anymore, mentally i am ready to settle down, but financially, not 1 bit.

A little advice for you Rosebud. You are NEVER financially prepared for kids. I had my first child by age 20, married by 23, another child by 25 and divorced at 26. If I had to do it all over again, and this is hard for me to say, no I wouldn't have had children. But since I can't I would not trade my girls for the world. I had my "tubes" tied about 2 years ago.

Your time will come and when it does you will know it's right. Please do not try to rush things.

I'm sure you will make a wonderful mother someday when you think the time is right.

 

[Not Normal]

I've been lurking here a bit but this thread got me to register and post.

I have no children and I won't. I have a great respect parenting, and for people who choose to be parents. It is a very hard job and often thankless.

To be honest, I can not even comprehend the desire to be a parent. I often question why I even have dogs. I don't feel I give them enough attention and they frustrate me easily sometimes. I just don't feel I'm up to the task.

I've been married for 8 years. My wife and I discussed this even before we were married. We are in agreement on the subject, but there was a brief period when she thought she wanted a baby. Of the many tough times we've had this was one of the toughest for me, and for her.

I too feel a lot of pressure from the "outside world." Of course both of our parents want to be grandparents. Many friend give us the "you'll change you minds" or "you'd be such great parents" lines. Sometimes I just want to scream. I had a fight with my Mom recently about one of my major reasons. I hated being a kid and would not want to inflict this on another. I did not have a bad or abusive childhood. She took great offense, thinking it had to do with her parenting, which is not the case. I've always thought a little different, always done what I believed was right for me even when its not the popular, average, expected, whatever thing to do.

I really wish that people would respect the privacy and decisions of others. Especially when someone makes a major decision about the most major event a person can go through (where they have a choice).

Thanks for letting me vent a bit.

 

[Eilan]

I really wish that people would respect the privacy and decisions of others. Especially when someone makes a major decision about the most major event a person can go through (where they have a choice).

Exactly.

 

[honeybunnybaby]

Well, I am a mum...

but that's becuase I was told I wouldn't be able to have children. And when I DID fall pregnant, I guess it was a sign that maybe I *would* like to have a child. At 22, it's not something I had thought greatly about. I guess I saw it as one of those things that might happen, but I didn't have strong feelings either way.

With an almost 4 year old, I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world (which is a VERY big statement after a VERY long Christmas Day & Boxing Day of tantrums due to new toys lol). HOWEVER it's a very personal decision as to whether or not you will have children. And something I would never question anyone about. I have 3 sisters - one with 4 kids, another with 3, myself with 1 (and we have stopped at one - that way we can provide her with everything she would ever want - kids sure do cost a lot of money!!) and my youngest sister who is adamant that she DOESN'T want children. Her and her partner enjoy a trip overseas every year, and that's the way she wants to keep it lol And more power to her I say! Parenting is NOT for everyone, and it's bloody hard work. At least she can come out and say she DOESN'T want kids. She shouldn't be judged for knowing what she wants.

Kids can certainly have their moments, and as a mum, that's when it's time to call it a day and take them home!! I don't need to subject all the unsuspecting people that DON'T have kids to her naughtiness lol

 

[bibphi]

.....

 

[Eilan]

Obviously, the optimum time to discuss this is WAY before the wedding, but I know people who did not, along with other rather important issues, and it's a recipe for disaster!

I know a woman who knew going into her marriage (30+ years ago) that her husband didn't want children. He's a teacher and he loves children, but because of some family/genetic concerns, he didn't want children of his own.

I think his wife always thought she could eventually talk him into having at least one child, but she never did. She didn't want to adopt because she wanted the experience of being pregnant; she also didn't want to look into donor insemination because she wanted her children to belong to her husband.

 

[Cockyfox]

It is a matter of personal choice and people who don't like your choice can flip off.

As a side note....I'm a little surprised at a few dickhead posts here. They are fucking children, not miniature adults. How the fuck do you expect them to behave? Not that children should be allowed to run amuck, but a little tolerance can go a long way.
I get tired of people thinking that b/c you have children you should chained to a cave.

 

[Eilan]

As a side note....I'm a little surprised at a few dickhead posts here. They are fucking children, not miniature adults. How the fuck do you expect them to behave? Not that children should be allowed to run amuck, but a little tolerance can go a long way.

Frankly, I think the problem with a lot of parents is that they treat their children like miniature adults, as "equals."

I'll elaborate later--got some shopping to do!

 

[EJFan]

Obviously, the optimum time to discuss this is WAY before the wedding, but I know people who did not, along with other rather important issues, and it's a recipe for disaster!

i can't agree enough... but let me add that the discussion about children is really better had before having intercourse.