Anyone out there who is into BDSM but your partner/spouse is NOT?

[Pure]

Stephanie Zacharek comments on the book

"Against Love," by Laura Kipnis

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/08/13/kipnis/index1.html

 

[Arden]

My husband is not at all interested, he thinks its all a bit silly and embarassing--so we can't even talk about it. I have offered to fulfill any fantasy he has, but I get no response. If any of you out there manage to combine BDSM and vanilla realtionships, how do you do it?

Communication is the key. However, some spouses are never able to open themselves up to it for various reasons. At some point, you may have to make a decision to stay or go, so that you can find someone that meets your needs. It's a long road, but worth the travel... if you desire happiness.

 

[Lady Emerald]

Since starting this thread I have come across many men and women who share this problem in our lives. So far for me it has been a good learning experience. I have had to think about some things I hadn't considered before. It is helping me get my thoughts together more clearly. I don't think anyone who is experiencing this conflict has a perfect answer or soloution and we are all aware of that. What I do know is--there are a lot of us out there!

 

[Pure]

Hi Lady E.,

I'm glad you're finding a range of people and 'answers.'

Consider the following, by which I don't mean to fault the persons in any way. I just use the words to illustrate:

Catalina said,


I came to realise over time and frustration, that was the reality, he was in the vanilla world, and so entrenched in the stereotypes, hypocrisy, and fears, he could never allow himself the happiness of embracing who he really was. To this day he laments losing me, but still feels I am mad for pursuing what I needed, and marrying the one who was happy to spank, whip, and cane me, while loving me more than I believed any person ever could. Hope you work yours out.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ethereal said,



I just checked back after having a mind-blowing although not entirely I suppose unexpected conversation with him...I now firmly agree with you ~ he is so entrenched in his stereotypes, hypocrisy & fears... it's over!!!!!

[an additional quote from another party deleted]

----

The gist of these is find your essence, do your own thing, be candid about what it is, leave behind what doesn't fit your plan. This is said to fit the golden rule:

Cat: "think of how you would want your SO to treat you."

=====

I realize that phase of life if relevant and that ethereal, at least, is talking about a parting before settling and having kids. But other posters quoted do not so limit themselves.

The following is a relevant analogical situation: I have two relatives, both middle aged males who left their wives and their teen aged children to pursue the dream: a better, younger partner. The 'left' spouse paid a price, and the teens all got pregnant and in two cases married soon after (one already separated!).

My point is that each alternative has a price: oddly, the 'pursue your dream' argument here (in this thread) is buttressed by 'consider others' feelings'-- they'd rather not be lied to or live with someone who's unhappy.

OTOH, in the cases above, the 'left' spouses were most unhappy; one has not remarried in five years; the teens were visibly upset as shown, in two cases, by picking the first marriage or sex partner available. My impression is that they are unhappy over the split.

Not pretending to be able to 'weigh', but the damage is substantial. Is it compensated by the joy of the males and their hot and loving new ladies? I can't say, but it's odd that this choice would be called 'considering others feelings' as opposed to 'do your own thing.'

As to the golden rule: Well I haven't posed it to the left spouses.
Can the husbands say, "I'm doing as I would be done by?" Well it's hard to answer, because of husbands differing positions relative to wives. Essentially to apply the golden rule (in a way that justifies leaving) is for the husband to say, "Yes, were I the wife, I'd rather be left than have an unhappy hubby." I don't know if that's true.

If the 'cheating' issue comes up, we picture the husband saying" In my wife's shoes I'd rather be left than cheated on or deceived." But if we were to actually ask the wife....we would not *always* find her saying, easily, "if my husband asks...yes I'd rather him leave than stay and cheat." It may depend on the situation. If the wife is well off, but faces drastically reduced standard of living, for herself, and for the kids also (not unheard of), maybe she'd rather have staying and the cheating.

In any case, I'm saying the golden rule isn't necessarily a clear guide, and maybe can't even be used where the situations are asymmetric. A bit like asking a Hiroshima resident in early 1945, "if you were in Truman's shoes, what would you do?"

None of the above is to comment on any particular person's choices; merely to talk about whether one set of choices will apply in another context.

I maintain that the husbands decisions about sexual and emotional satisfaction are parallel to these questions of the thread about 'what to do with my kink?"


J.

 

[Netzach]

Take me offa the short list, please. I don't have or intend to have any kids, so my responsibilities begin and end with me.

I have a weird moral compass that won't let me get involved with married men with kids.

Married women with kids I don't feel as freaked out over because it's not likely that one will get so swept off her feet that she wants to ditch the kids and follow me to the ends of the earth. It just doesn't happen.

Everyone has her limits, those are mine.

 

[Pure]

OK, you're offa the list. It was probably a stretch to put your remarks there, but it's a possible way of reading or applying (or misreading and misapplying) your remark about kids.

 

[Lady Emerald]

Pure----you do a really great job of bring things together into the cohesive whole--You have great editing skills.

One thing I know for sure I'm not rushing into or out of anything. I'm thinking very much of ways I can reconcile myself to my situation--looking for the good points---even seeing if I can "pretend" my H is my Dom!!! That might sound totally bizzarre but when I have developed it a little more I'll share it with you---see what you guys think.

Netzach----
Married women with kids I don't feel as freaked out over because it's not likely that one will get so swept off her feet that she wants to ditch the kids and follow me to the ends of the earth. It just doesn't happen.------------
That's interesting you have experienced that---its very much how I would feel.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Pure---<snip>--You have great editing skills.

COKESPEW!

LMFAO!!

This was absolutely priceless. Thank you Lady Emerald for the most amusing post I've read all day!

~anelize

 

[catalina_francisco]

Pure---<snip>--You have great editing skills.

COKESPEW!

LMFAO!!

This was absolutely priceless. Thank you Lady Emerald for the most amusing post I've read all day!

~anelize

Didn't Pure win this award awhile back, though perhaps with different reasoning?!! http://www.smilies4you.de/content/schilder/a39.gif

Catalina

 

[Lady Emerald]

Pure---<snip>--You have great editing skills.

COKESPEW!

LMFAO!!

This was absolutely priceless. Thank you Lady Emerald for the most amusing post I've read all day!

~anelize

Delighted to have brought some amusement into what must have been a very dull day......

 

[Pure]

Let me try to put my question in a couple sentences.

I can understand the 'do your own thing' and 'do it directly and openly, and honestly; go for it even if it means losing/replacing your partner. This is what a number of career seekers have done, and examples in the arts abound, e.g Gauguin, as well as among doctors and policemen and rock stars (Mick Jagger).

What's weird is to hear several folks around here justifying it as the way to consider *others'* interests and feelings, as a favor to them or way of treating them well. IOW, "OK, Gauguin, do your thing, so to the South Seas and paint and maybe the world will be the richer. But don't tell me it's the kindest and most considerate thing for the wife and kids."

J.

 

[Venomous Rain]

Great news! The other night my lover and I were discussing buying the house we now live in. We were talking about the changes we would like to make when out of the blue he told me he would like to build a secret staircase to the attic for our "playroom".
When I looked at him questioningly he said that we would need a place for our bondage games! I was thrilled and surprised!

So, to all of you out there in a vanilla relationship DON'T give up! If there is hope for me I know there is hope for anyone!



Rain

 

[catalina_francisco]

Great news! The other night my lover and I were discussing buying the house we now live in. We were talking about the changes we would like to make when out of the blue he told me he would like to build a secret staircase to the attic for our "playroom".
When I looked at him questioningly he said that we would need a place for our bondage games! I was thrilled and surprised!

So, to all of you out there in a vanilla relationship DON'T give up! If there is hope for me I know there is hope for anyone!



Rain

I am so happy for you!! Sounds like you too will have the life you want and need. Enjoy.

Catalina

 

[Pure]

That's great, rain. Truth be told, most people have kinks. Also, I believe the male sexual response is high malleable-- given the right set of hands.

J.

 

[spankableBelle]

bad apple in the barrel

i am married, 11 years. Have two children...4 and 9. i have an online Master that that my husband doesn't know about because to him this submissive stuff is just a phase or just a 'pet project' for my writing or whatever he tells himself. We haven't talked about it in more than a year, when i first brought it up and him telling me that a lifestyle change wasn't what he wanted...but, i was welcome to change my life...without my kids.

my Master has been through this very thing, sans kids, but luckily for me, He understands what i go through with my husband and the emotional, mental, and sexual side effects that i have faced over the years and most especially since my 'honey, i'm a submissive...' revelation.

No, i haven't divorced. Yes, i have thought about it. i do have obligations to my husband, responsibilities to my family that have to come first...but, i have to come somewhere in the grand scheme of things. Is that selfish and wrong and am i completely and totally morally reprehensible? Maybe so...but, it's the choice i have made and the path i have chosen to trod for now...

Doesn't make me a bad person or terrible friend material or a terrible mother. A terrible wife...perhaps. But i can look myself in the mirror every day and know that i am one day and one step closer to being who i really am...

belle

 

[Pure]

Belle,
Hang in there. Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation. I give comment only, and would not presume to try to 'advise.' Ideas are for consideration. You will make the right choices among alternatives.

My impression is that your hubby doesn't want blow by blow updates on your submission in your imagination or elsewhere.
As for imagination, if you write stories you have a nice cover for any writing on the topic, and again, maybe hubby should know that, in a general way.

Perhaps even the 'online master' could be spoken of as a correspondent among several, and not explained further. Imo.

I think many marriages have a 'don't ask, don't tell policy', and I can see that being workable (with certain qualifications, such as no 'running off' is being planned) where there are no real life, but only internet encounters. Of course the traditional arrangement is to have 'real life' encounters discretely, not in the marital bed or even in the home town.


You do bring up an interesting point about kids. Given that 'kinks' can affect custody, surely the best strategy is NOT to 'come out' or to limit it (give that impression). Then get divorced, custody arrangements set, etc. Then, if you consider it 'lifestyle' or occasional practice, ease into it without lotsa fanfare. What do you think?

 

[sloan]

Bringing BDSM(or sex, for that matter).............

into a marriage that is vanilla, and non-sexual at that. Im at MY wits end, too, we have been married for 22 years, and we havent had sex in 3 1/2 years! I am 57, she is 40, we both are reasonably healthy(I have emphysema, but am fairly fit, and most spouses complain that their SO doesnt want to get laid- Im the opposite). Is there nothing that will change her mind? Help me out here, please. Im ready, willing and able, want to start som enew things sexually,a nd every time I approch the subject, Im ytold that its"one too many things to do. The pressure is too much!" For me, it isnt just about bringing BDSMto the marriage, but even vanilla! My bad, Im ranting- ANyone ???????

 

[Pure]

Sloan, I cant' presume to advise. But you're quite aware that 'bringing sex in' or 'bringing 'kink' in' is NOT like bringing a bottle of wine into the house. The 'non sex' reflects a phase of a relationship, and I've seen it.

There are two issues at least:

1) Maybe the relationship is lacking. Then only if underlying things in the relationship change a little (at least)-- i.e., more intimacy, more things that make each other happy-- can sex be 'brought in' or 'brought back.' AND/OR

2) Maybe the 'non sex' partner is emotionally in a non optimal state, not the fault of the partner, may have to change within; i.e., maybe they are depressed and need help there (though Prozac often lessens sexual desires).

Otherwise, I see the sexual or kink need of the 'starving' partner' is likely to end up being met some other way, be it through imagination, self help, internet fuck buddy, or what ever.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Sloan, I am sorry for your predicament...know the turmoil it can cause. Perhaps your wife is going through the intial stages before the onset of menopause which often have these effects, or perhaps like many she has become stuck so deeply in a rut change is an inconceivable concept as it seems to her it will not change anything, or worse stil may change them in a way negative to her. Perhaps it is time to pull out the stops and employ some old fashioned romance, unexpected dinner by candlelight, perhaps arrange a massage for her...anything to break the pattern so you have a starting point to discover her reason for her reluctance. As Pure says, it can also be a sign of another issue in the marriage totally unrelated to sex, but played out in the bedroom none the less. I wish you well.

Catalina

 

[sloan]

Thank you both

I appreciate your time and input. Yes, 3+ years is a long dry-spell- I should have dealt with it sooner- Thanks again, Sloan

 

[TheCleaningLady]

My Dearest Child,

“He that is without sin among you; let him first cast a stone at Her"

Interesting that you elevate her to "Her" in your text. Christ did not feel inclined to do so, it appears. See, for example, the Gospel of Saint John:

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

 

[TheCleaningLady]

My Dearest Child,

“He that is without sin among you; let him first cast a stone at Her"

Interesting that you elevate her to "Her" in your text. Christ did not feel inclined to do so, it appears. See, for example, the Gospel of Saint John:

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting that you elevate her to "Her" in your text. Christ did not feel inclined to do so, it appears. See, for example, the Gospel of Saint John:

If you want to join the Church of BDSM maybe it would be a good idea if you drop by in my thread, I am always looking for followers.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201186&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Sain Francisco.

 

[ReadyOne]

I'm debating about putting TheCleaningLady on "ignore".

I suppose the next time I run across another thread with a post I will have enough for a decision.

Dealing with closed minds/predetermined answers just gets me down.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm debating about putting TheCleaningLady on "ignore".

I suppose the next time I run across another thread with a post I will have enough for a decision.

Dealing with closed minds/predetermined answers just gets me down.

Oh well we should employ our Christian good will here as she says she has the Lord inside her..sounds rather kinky to me. But as to helping, I am sure there must be some good boys here who can devote their attention to one who says she has come here to help our grammar and hopefully find herself a good Christian non drinking, non smoking man to love. Cannot knock someone wanting a little love I guess.

C