Another take on Disappointment

[Shadowsdream]

This may become an unpopular subject..and I have bitten My tongue for some time about it.

I have read many threads of disappointment lately. unfullfilled realities. I have seen posters come and go when they could not cope with their public loss of dreams they had no doubts about.

I have been watching it happen skin to skin as well when first meetings built on *love* before skin became uncomfortable impossibiities. I know that many believe that love is the beginning of a good D/s relationship and I must take the more unpopular road here. I take it because in over 30 years I see the same record being played until the vinyl has long been scratched beyond any sound recognition.

Submission needs to know that Domination is in the control of the Dominant and the Dominant needs to know that they are in control~of the dreams and both.

In new relationships the Domination is sooooo often tempered because it is shadowed by the *love* but the submission is intensified because of the love. Do you see where I am going here?

Once the submissive sees that the Dominant is controlled by the *love* they see that the power they have been needing to give up remains in their hands.

Loving control is as beautiful as romantic love...more powerful...erotic...and open to better communication.

Stopping Myself here as it is a subject that I have been speaking about day after day for several months now trying to save possible hopes and dreams of those I care about in My real life..both Dommes and subs.

I am not saying there are not exceptions....but I am saying they are rare...unfortunately most people cannot see that they are not the exception.

Opinions are like assholes..and everyone has them..including Myself ~~~smile~~

 

[seXieleXie]

i simply don't agree. i don't see anyone as weaker for loving me. but as you said, everyone has opinions.

 

[Shadowsdream]

aha..but I do not see them as weaker either...nor was that what I was saying in any way....

I am saying that if the loving makes the Dom/me question every move they make..they begin to stop making the moves they would normally make.

 

[artful]

This may become an unpopular subject..and I have bitten My tongue for some time about it.

I have read many threads of disappointment lately. unfullfilled realities. I have seen posters come and go when they could not cope with their public loss of dreams they had no doubts about.

I have been watching it happen skin to skin as well when first meetings built on *love* before skin became uncomfortable impossibiities. I know that many believe that love is the beginning of a good D/s relationship and I must take the more unpopular road here. I take it because in over 30 years I see the same record being played until the vinyl has long been scratched beyond any sound recognition.

Submission needs to know that Domination is in the control of the Dominant and the Dominant needs to know that they are in control~of the dreams and both.

In new relationships the Domination is sooooo often tempered because it is shadowed by the *love* but the submission is intensified because of the love. Do you see where I am going here?

Once the submissive sees that the Dominant is controlled by the *love* they see that the power they have been needing to give up remains in their hands.

Loving control is as beautiful as romantic love...more powerful...erotic...and open to better communication.

Stopping Myself here as it is a subject that I have been speaking about day after day for several months now trying to save possible hopes and dreams of those I care about in My real life..both Dommes and subs.

I am not saying there are not exceptions....but I am saying they are rare...unfortunately most people cannot see that they are not the exception.

Opinions are like assholes..and everyone has them..including Myself ~~~smile~~

I happen to agree with what you have stated!

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Another take on Disappointment

I happen to agree with what you have stated!

I have to agree too.

I have always agreed with this view in the past. I made an exception to the rule, and have lived to regret it. It is a mistake that I will never allow to happen again.

The strongest relationship I have is with my submissive sissy boy, who I care for but am not in love with. There is something to that.

I intend to keep romance and D/s separate, as I have in the past, from this day forward.

And whether you believe it or not, it is easier than you think!

Disagree if you like, but this is my opinion, based on hard life experience. Do not flame me, I am not in the mood for any BS.

Ebonyfire <bloodied but unrepentant as hell, and not bent>

 

[cellis]

Re: Re: Re: Another take on Disappointment

I intend to keep romance and D/s separate, as I have in the past, from this day forward.

And whether you believe it or not, it is easier than you think!

Disagree if you like, but this is my opinion, based on hard life experience. Do not flame me, I am not in the mood for any BS.

Ebonyfire <bloodied but unrepentant as hell, and not bent>

Actually, I more than agree and said something along these lines on another thread.

I have talked about our search for another submissive on several occassions. I think that one of the reasons I was not more upset about being stood up the other night was that I knew that this sub would not be someone that I would develop strong emotional ties to.

On the other hand, there is another submissive that we have been talking to and are meeting next weekend (well maybe, lol). She is very much someone that I can see becoming more than just a little important in our lives. She is also someone that I see both of us developing a great deal of affection for, much more so than the first sub.

I know that first is a better choice for us at this point, but the second one is much more attractive to me emotionally.

So somewhere a long the line, I need to develop an aloofness as a protection. I know for me I have to be very careful not to let whoever shares our lives become too important emotionally. It is simply for self preservation.

 

[CarolineOh]

Thank you for a very insightful post, Shadowsdream. I feel lucky in that Sam and I had established a love relationship before we entered into any serious bdsm exploration, but I still see how the ramifications of love can effect the d/s aspect of our relationship. Thank you for this food for thought.

 

[CarolineOh]

Re: Re: Re: Another take on Disappointment

I have to agree too.

I have always agreed with this view in the past. I made an exception to the rule, and have lived to regret it. It is a mistake that I will never allow to happen again.

The strongest relationship I have is with my submissive sissy boy, who I care for but am not in love with. There is something to that.

I intend to keep romance and D/s separate, as I have in the past, from this day forward.

And whether you believe it or not, it is easier than you think!

Disagree if you like, but this is my opinion, based on hard life experience. Do not flame me, I am not in the mood for any BS.

Ebonyfire <bloodied but unrepentant as hell, and not bent>

Would it be improper for an unbent Domme to accept a cuddle and a kiss from a femsub admirer?

 

[WillowPuss]

As Caroline said, ithas given me food for thought.

I know that, for me, I would need that love, that emotional attachment. I suppose I am lucky in that I am married to my Dom. If anything happened to him/us and I found myself looking for a new partner, I still think I would need that emotional link.

Maybe it is me being needy?

However, I can see where you may not push limits if you were so emotionally involved. Where you may hang back.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another take on Disappointment

Would it be improper for an unbent Domme to accept a cuddle and a kiss from a femsub admirer?

I love cuddles and kisses, Caroline! Love is always appreciated!


Ebony

 

[morninggirl5]

We all have our own realities, our own definition of what makes our own particular version of a BDSM relationship a good one.

For me, i want a relationship that includes BDSM. I distinguish that from a purely BDSM relationship, because for me the relationship must come first. Until i know someone, respect them for who they are as a person, come to understand how they view themselves, the world, and me, and grow to care about them, i remain apart from them. I cannot offer my submission to someone that hasn't first captured my mind and at least a portion of my heart.

That is me, that is how i am made up. I must know that a strong relationship is in place because once i offer my submission, i give myself wholly over to the relationship. His hopes, dreams, and fears become my own.

Shadowsdream, you are probably right that it's harder to make it work when there is love involved. I can see that and appreciate it. In the end, however, when your choice is no relationship at all or to try and have it all, the risk becomes much easier to take.

 

[Quint]

I am in complete agreement, although I wouldn't have known it til recently.

I've been talking online to a good friend of mine, who I found out accidentally (heh heh) is the absolute most perfect Dom I've ever known (present company excluded, of course). He somehow KNOWS everything that arouses me and does it simply because he gets off on it. I've never found that before and I love it.

Hunny knows about it. I'd like to say I was honest from the start but since we're separate, I thought it would be best to keep this from him until I could say it to his face and get instant feedback. However, silly forum-addict that I am, I mentioned my Dom friend here, and Hunny happened across the news. Drama. Anyway, I decided that I do not want to do genuine BDSM with Hunny anymore, because I am tired of pretending to be who I naturally am. It simply cannot be satisfying when only one person of the equation is fully into it. And I'm an all-or-nothing kinda gal. I could have said "I want you to learn this and treat me like he does," but I don't want that. I couldn't be humiliated and degraded like my Dom does to me (like I need) by somebody who I love for his respect of me. And he couldn't do it for the same reason. I'm his princess, and he can't reconcile that image with the image of a whore. It almost comes down to a choice, but I think I sidestepped that for now by saying that yes, a large part of my sexuality is being appeased elsewhere, but that isn't all of me. Just a nice part of it.

I like my Dom very much. He and I have always connected. But I know that the BDSM aspect of our relationship would suffer profoundly if we ever developed deeper feelings. I doubt he could unleash his aggression, anger, and cruelty on me if he loved me. Or call me a slut and mean it. Or turn the webcam on me as I masturbate. I refuse to accept anything less than perfect from him as well--and as long as we keep it "friends with benefits," he is perfect.

Thank you for starting this thread, Shadow. The more I read of you, the more I respect and like you. Doesn't hurt that I agree with you, either. o)

 

[joi]

We all have our own realities, our own definition of what makes our own particular version of a BDSM relationship a good one.
Shadowsdream, you are probably right that it's harder to make it work when there is love involved. I can see that and appreciate it. In the end, however, when your choice is no relationship at all or to try and have it all, the risk becomes much easier to take.

In one word, WOW!...as if you were reading my mind, morninggirl5~ I am rather sure that the love shared has allowed my Beloved to take me well beyond my expectatations rather than dilute marvelous D/s relationship we have. As far as "stopping to make the moves the Dom/me might make", perhaps the loving relationship strengthens the "moves" made? The shared bond increases the levels of understanding and growth, at least for this young lady!

While i have an opinion, i also have one

 

[Cirrus]

I agree totally and He and I have been dealing with similar issues. I love Him, I love our play sessions, I even love it when have sex 'nilla style, and the feelings, I'm sure are mutual. But he holds back. He wants to hurt me without really hurting me. You don't want to hurt that which you love, and I understand that.

As far as me being a submissive in love, there are times, both in the bedroom and out, that I feel like I want to give my very life to him because I love him so very much. I know he's happy with me but sometimes I'm so overcome by my emotions I feel like I want to always make him a little happier.

 

[MzChrista]

BDSM and love are completely separate issues for me. I dont have BDSM "relationships". I know that puts me in a minority. I have friends who I am close to who I play with sometimes, and I have play partners who I just play with and dont see in any other context.
People get in arguments about is BDSM sexual or not and I have never been able to answer that. I have no interest in sex with men, but I love to do things with them that get them off. Too confusing, I know.
I think Shadowsdream is right, love can interfere with BDSM. I have seen it with many friends. If you can make the two work together, you will know you really have something special going on.

 

[RisiaSkye]

This seems like an awfully subjective issue, the question of BDSM and romantic love--one in which everyone's answer is going to be what's best for them. I'm sure it *can* interfere in the D/s and S/M elements in particular, especially if both parties aren't fully comfortable with who they are in a D/s relationship, and what they need from one. So, the following speaks only to my own experience and desires:

I've had kinky fucks in which I Topped or bottomed, but I've never really Dominated anyone I didn't care for a great deal. And the only person I've ever truly submitted to is MasterMe, and it's only possible for me to do because of our love relationship. I trust him to take me to and through the darkest places, and bring me safely out the other side--and to still value, respect, and love me when we get there, and to treat me no differently when we resume our 'nilla day lives.

For me, it would be all wrong to divide up my self into Madonna/whore, being one to the kind of love partner I need, and the other to the kind of BDSM partner I desire. For me, and only for me, it's of vital importance that they inform each other--and that I be with someone who can recognize that both come from the same spirit, and who can accept that. Perhaps it's yet another manifestation of my switchiness, maybe it's the nine years I have invested in *one* relationship making it easy to say I wouldn't divide those needs up. I don't know. It's just how I think and feel.

My submission (and his as well) is real, but it has carefully negotiated limits; our D/s practices and their continual evolution depend heavily upon our emotional intimacy--something that only time and (sometimes gut-wreching) honesty have been able to develop, and something which continues to grow and evolve. If I didn't have that, I wouldn't go the places I go with him sexually--at least, certainly not to the scary/thrilling/vulnerable side of it, to extent that I do. Of course, we both Switch, so we aren't 24/7 TPE, which might be a big part of the difference between our situation and the kinds of relationships Shadow, Ebony and others have in mind. ((Sometimes, like today, I really feel like I understand nothing.))

I guess I'm just hesitant to suggest that there's a "right" way to make any kind of relationship work. Everyone's different. Seek what you need and desire--whether you get all of it in one person and one relationship, or in thirty. I have no judgement to make about that, nor any illusion that what I need and want is what would best work for someone else.

 

[mskittykatt]

....I guess I'm just hesitant to suggest that there's a "right" way to make any kind of relationship work. Everyone's different. Seek what you need and desire--whether you get all of it in one person and one relationship, or in thirty. I have no judgement to make about that, nor any illusion that what I need and want is what would best work for someone else.

very well spoken!

 

[Shadowsdream]

(In new relationships the Domination is sooooo often tempered because it is shadowed by the *love* but the submission is intensified because of the love. Do you see where I am going here?)

I do not for a minute..not even a second believe that there is no place for love in a D/s relationship.

My thread was to address the disappointment of a budding relationship that BEGINS because both parties have been searching for Domination and submission for what seems like them an eternity as well as those who see it as a must in their lives.

I love My slave with all of My heart and soul. The love never is an issue to the Domination because I am not influenced by it. I am influenced by what I see he needs in direction, Physical, sexual and emotional to help him to be all he can be rather than less than he was when he came to Me. Without My deep feelings for him it would not be him but some other submissive under My umbrella of protection.

There is as many ways of looking at this topic as there are stars in the sky..and it is never a waste of time to consider as many as possible, dividing the chaffe from the wheat. (hoping chaffe is not mispelled)

 

[cymbidia]

There is as many ways of looking at this topic as there are stars in the sky..and it is never a waste of time to consider as many as possible, dividing the chaffe from the wheat. (hoping chaffe is not mispelled)

(GODS i'm glad someone besides me can't spell everything correctly all the time!)

I've been on all sides of this equation a few times. Well, all the submissive sides anyway. I've had strictly play partner relationships that were of heat and incredible value but did not include any emotions beyond the warmth of human caring and respect. I've been deeply in love with my dominant, too, three times in my life. I've felt everything in between those two poles for different domianants/tops at different times.

All approaches to this are valid for those taking those approaches. We all require different attributes from our relationships at different periods in our lives. We all have different stuff to give different partners and different stuff we can take from those partners. We grow and change throughout our lives, as do our needs.

For me, these days, i crave the intimacy of a true and deep emotional bond with my dominant. I'm a hard player from a physical perspective, very much a masochist, and usually cannot get into the headspace to benefit from hard play unless there's that emotional connection. I don't have to actually be deeply in love with my dominant - but i have to have more than simple respect for them. We have to have a growing emotional connection, that dom and i, for me to get anything much from our play.

In the last ten years or so, i've been unable to play with those for whom i don't feel much beyond general human respect. Such play simply doesn't do much for me.

I've become like an emotional vampire. I suck at the main artery of the emotional connection between me and my dominant. It sustains me. It's allows me the transition from wrenching pain into the sublime and magical flight of my own version of what's popluarly called "subspace".

Without the reality of a strong emotional connection, it's all just kinky sex for me. While there's nothing at all wrong with "just kinky sex", i know there's more to be had - and i want it.

That sucks in a big way, too, cuz i've got no one anywhere on my horizon who fits into those "my dominant" shoes - and, for now, i'm not even looking. However, i'm appalling bad at celibacy. You see the conundrum i'm caught in here, don't you?

 

[Ebonyfire]

[BI do not for a minute..not even a second believe that there is no place for love in a D/s relationship.[/B]

I hope I did not leave that impression either. I am just talking about me, my experiences, and what works for me in my world, and how deviation from what always has worked for ME led to disaster.

Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

Ebony

 

[Shadowsdream]

cymbidia

Hey now are you calling Me a bad speller..ooops spellar.....spellor? hmph! ^^^grin^^^


Good post cym..I do see the fix you are in...

 

[morninggirl5]

Shadowsdream, Are you saying that one should concentrate on finding a BDSM relationship that works and then allow love to grow within it?


That one needs to concentrate on one aspect of the relationship until it is solid and then incorporate the other area?


I've been thinking about these issues a lot and i appreciate you giving me more food for thought.

 

[Shadowsdream]

What I am saying is that IF you have a burning need..an overwhelming need...that cannot just be satisfied with occassional bedroom play...a need that you feel will grow and follow you all through your life...then yes I am saying beginning with the BDSM will take you further than beginning with the *love*

BUT I am also saying there should be some *magic* *sparks* between both parties..even if not volcanic eruptions..to keep the craving active on both sides.

Be clear to yourself what you are looking for, never search in desperation and never accept in excitement. If you do you may have many short relationships, many moments that take you over the moon, many memories that begin in ecstacy and dissolve in boredom or disallussionment.

*love* softens emotions...it is not a bad thing...but soft edges *can* change the dynamics if they are not in place before the structure of a BDSM relationship.


Good luck in your search mg...your magic is out there!

 

[cymbidia]

So, i'm a couple weeks into enforced celibacy now and i gotta say: just plain 'ole straight bottoming is looking pretty damn good today. I'm getting all twitchy going this long without that wild release one can only get during our kinda play.







Actually, i still crave the whole package.
It's gotta be out there for me.
One simply has to wait out the dry spells.
Right?

 

[Ebonyfire]

So, i'm a couple weeks into enforced celibacy now and i gotta say: just plain 'ole straight bottoming is looking pretty damn good today. I'm getting all twitchy going this long without that wild release one can only get during our kinda play.


So, are you gonna revolt?

Ebony






Actually, i still crave the whole package.
It's gotta be out there for me.
One simply has to wait out the dry spells.
Right?