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Another Boeing down......

HisArpy said:
The captain's mayday call mentioned that they couldn't apply power.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I haven’t heard any transcripts but have heard that reported.

Couple of things stand out. One, the gear never came up. After rotation, that should have happened within the first 5-10 seconds. Second, if he stated he “couldn’t apply power”, did he mean he had power and it was all they had or did he mean he lost power or didn’t have enough? The FDR and CVR will shed light. Third, Were the auto throttles armed? If they were armed and in manual, were the speeds set correctly?

I can easily see a misstatement on exactly what was happening with the “oh shit” moment of realizing something is wrong, and trying to troubleshoot as the ground is rushing up at you.
 
There's no reason yet, is there, to suspect this crash is Boeing's fault? That it was caused by a manufacturing defect?
 
HumpDayHoratio said:
Interesting. I haven’t heard any transcripts but have heard that reported.

Couple of things stand out. One, the gear never came up. After rotation, that should have happened within the first 5-10 seconds. Second, if he stated he “couldn’t apply power”, did he mean he had power and it was all they had or did he mean he lost power or didn’t have enough? The FDR and CVR will shed light. Third, Were the auto throttles armed? If they were armed and in manual, were the speeds set correctly?

I can easily see a misstatement on exactly what was happening with the “oh shit” moment of realizing something is wrong, and trying to troubleshoot as the ground is rushing up at you.
Click to expand...

The gear doesn't (or can't because of computer control?) come up until the airplane has a positive rate of climb and it doesn't look like that was ever achieved. Since the airplane can fly on only 1 engine, and it has 2, something else was happening instead of flaps or gear or flight crew error.

If you watch, you can hear the plane pass overhead before it begins to descend. The jet exhaust sound is more like landing than takeoff, the engines are basically idling instead of generating thrust at takeoff power (or even full power).


Here's another view of the takeoff before the crash.

CNN linky with video

This video shows the aircraft rotate and start to climb then it stops climbing and descends. For those talking about flaps, the aircraft was climbing. This indicates that there was sufficient power to rotate and start to climb but something prevented it from continuing to climb. A no flaps condition won't do that, what you'll get is a slow climbout, but you'll still be able to climb. Neither will the gear still being deployed prevent climb out. The only thing that will prevent positive rate of climb is a lack of power in all the engines. Which is what the pilot said when he made the Mayday call.

I don't think this was pilot error. I think this was a computer/electrical/mechanical failure. Probably some stupid check engine light came on and dumped the bird's engines into limp mode.
 
There's no reason yet, is there, to suspect this crash is Boeing's fault? That it was caused by a manufacturing defect?
 
Bn2f said:
How does a commercial passenger get to choose the type of plane that’s scheduled for their flight?
Click to expand...
Back when I flew, you definitely could see what it was.
 
HisArpy said:
The gear doesn't (or can't because of computer control?) come up until the airplane has a positive rate of climb and it doesn't look like that was ever achieved. Since the airplane can fly on only 1 engine, and it has 2, something else was happening instead of flaps or gear or flight crew error.

If you watch, you can hear the plane pass overhead before it begins to descend. The jet exhaust sound is more like landing than takeoff, the engines are basically idling instead of generating thrust at takeoff power (or even full power).


Here's another view of the takeoff before the crash.

CNN linky with video

This video shows the aircraft rotate and start to climb then it stops climbing and descends. For those talking about flaps, the aircraft was climbing. This indicates that there was sufficient power to rotate and start to climb but something prevented it from continuing to climb. A no flaps condition won't do that, what you'll get is a slow climbout, but you'll still be able to climb. Neither will the gear still being deployed prevent climb out. The only thing that will prevent positive rate of climb is a lack of power in all the engines. Which is what the pilot said when he made the Mayday call.

I don't think this was pilot error. I think this was a computer/electrical/mechanical failure. Probably some stupid check engine light came on and dumped the bird's engines into limp mode.
Click to expand...
Another high hour Boeing pilot said that the failure of both A/C buses failure could cause loss of power.

 
HisArpy said:
The gear doesn't (or can't because of computer control?) come up until the airplane has a positive rate of climb and it doesn't look like that was ever achieved. Since the airplane can fly on only 1 engine, and it has 2, something else was happening instead of flaps or gear or flight crew error.

If you watch, you can hear the plane pass overhead before it begins to descend. The jet exhaust sound is more like landing than takeoff, the engines are basically idling instead of generating thrust at takeoff power (or even full power).


Here's another view of the takeoff before the crash.

CNN linky with video

This video shows the aircraft rotate and start to climb then it stops climbing and descends. For those talking about flaps, the aircraft was climbing. This indicates that there was sufficient power to rotate and start to climb but something prevented it from continuing to climb. A no flaps condition won't do that, what you'll get is a slow climbout, but you'll still be able to climb. Neither will the gear still being deployed prevent climb out. The only thing that will prevent positive rate of climb is a lack of power in all the engines. Which is what the pilot said when he made the Mayday call.

I don't think this was pilot error. I think this was a computer/electrical/mechanical failure. Probably some stupid check engine light came on and dumped the bird's engines into limp mode.
Click to expand...
An airline pilot and aeronautical engineer all in one and let’s not forget computer/ electrical/mechanical engineer to boot!
Why bother doing a detailed investigation when we’re lumbered with you!
 
Oyster69 said:
An airline pilot and aeronautical engineer all in one and let’s not forget computer/ electrical/mechanical engineer to boot!
Why bother doing a detailed investigation when we’re lumbered with you!
Click to expand...

Those are my opinions/beliefs based on my own experiences/knowledge as a student pilot. You're welcome to submit your experiences/opinions/beliefs too, if you have any, instead of the nonsensical vitriol you seem to be specializing in.
 
Rebel5soul said:
Another high hour Boeing pilot said that the failure of both A/C buses failure could cause loss of power.

Click to expand...

We won't really know until they release the information on the aircraft performance/configuration as well as flight deck conversation from the black boxes.
 
HisArpy said:
Those are my opinions/beliefs based on my own experiences/knowledge as a student pilot. You're welcome to submit your experiences/opinions/beliefs too, if you have any, instead of the nonsensical vitriol you seem to be specializing in.
Click to expand...
You pecker head! With all your flying experience you’re ready for a flying leap!
 
Oyster69 said:
You pecker head! With all your flying experience you’re ready for a flying leap!
Click to expand...


As opposed to your massive number of flight hours at the controls?

I mean it has to be massive, right? Like you claim about your dick?
 
HisArpy said:
As opposed to your massive number of flight hours at the controls?

I mean it has to be massive, right? Like you claim about your dick?
Click to expand...
What? What the hell are you talking about?WTF are you on dickhead? Or are you having a stroke?
 
Well, they have now found one of the black boxes so we will a good idea soon enough......It was located near the tail of the plane, on the roof of the resident doctors' hostel building, where the plane crashed. The black box will be used to help determine the cause of the crash.

If it's a software glitch, Boeing is going to take another beating
 
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