Another Boeing down......

[Rebel5soul]

Well, they have now found one of the black boxes so we will a good idea soon enough......It was located near the tail of the plane, on the roof of the resident doctors' hostel building, where the plane crashed. The black box will be used to help determine the cause of the crash.

If it's a software glitch, Boeing is going to take another beating

Don't count in it, that air frame has been in service too long.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

The gear doesn't (or can't because of computer control?) come up until the airplane has a positive rate of climb and it doesn't look like that was ever achieved. Since the airplane can fly on only 1 engine, and it has 2, something else was happening instead of flaps or gear or flight crew error.

If you watch, you can hear the plane pass overhead before it begins to descend. The jet exhaust sound is more like landing than takeoff, the engines are basically idling instead of generating thrust at takeoff power (or even full power).

Here's another view of the takeoff before the crash.

CNN linky with video

This video shows the aircraft rotate and start to climb then it stops climbing and descends. For those talking about flaps, the aircraft was climbing. This indicates that there was sufficient power to rotate and start to climb but something prevented it from continuing to climb. A no flaps condition won't do that, what you'll get is a slow climbout, but you'll still be able to climb. Neither will the gear still being deployed prevent climb out. The only thing that will prevent positive rate of climb is a lack of power in all the engines. Which is what the pilot said when he made the Mayday call.

I don't think this was pilot error. I think this was a computer/electrical/mechanical failure. Probably some stupid check engine light came on and dumped the bird's engines into limp mode.

The gear isn’t automatic. It has to be manually raised or lowered. It does have a lockout mechanism so you can’t pull it up on the ground, but when weight comes off the wheels that is disengaged. On the new vid you posted the plane achieved a positive rate of climb for close to 10 seconds then hit its apex and started descending although the angle of attack didn’t appear to change much on the original video, you can see the pilots increasing angle of attack on the new one. That’s pretty consistent when you’re close to the ground and attempting to get the bird to fly.

I agree, he had power to what appears to me to be a normal rotation and takeoff, but then something happened. The gear doesn’t come up and I’ve heard from other channels it appears his RAT (Ram Air Turbine) was deployed. That means he had either no battery power or APU power. Not knowing the systems I can’t say but neither of those scenarios should cause a roll back on the engines, but I could be wrong about that.

My best guess would be the flaps came up out of order, the plane settled the crew possibly stalled with controlled flight into terrain. It’s very possible the Auto throttles were in manual speed and the speed was set too low?

This was a low impact crash so FDR/CVR initial tests should be in a week or so.

Terrible tragedy. Prayers for all involved and their families.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Back when I flew, you definitely could see what it was.

You can still see it. You might not have the luxury of picking an Airbus over a Boeing, depending on route, but I guess if you have the time and willingness to investigate, it’s possible.

Problem is, if that flight cancels for any reason, you might be moved to a Boeing, so there’s no guarantee.

 

[TheGxForum]

Like I said.

 

[Lance_Castro]

Here you go… incompetent dei co pilot selected flaps up instead of gear up… boom.

 

[Rebel5soul]

The gear isn’t automatic. It has to be manually raised or lowered. It does have a lockout mechanism so you can’t pull it up on the ground, but when weight comes off the wheels that is disengaged. On the new vid you posted the plane achieved a positive rate of climb for close to 10 seconds then hit its apex and started descending although the angle of attack didn’t appear to change much on the original video, you can see the pilots increasing angle of attack on the new one. That’s pretty consistent when you’re close to the ground and attempting to get the bird to fly.

I agree, he had power to what appears to me to be a normal rotation and takeoff, but then something happened. The gear doesn’t come up and I’ve heard from other channels it appears his RAT (Ram Air Turbine) was deployed. That means he had either no battery power or APU power. Not knowing the systems I can’t say but neither of those scenarios should cause a roll back on the engines, but I could be wrong about that.

My best guess would be the flaps came up out of order, the plane settled the crew possibly stalled with controlled flight into terrain. It’s very possible the Auto throttles were in manual speed and the speed was set too low?

This was a low impact crash so FDR/CVR initial tests should be in a week or so.

Terrible tragedy. Prayers for all involved and their families.

The RAT being deployed is a BIG indicator of BIG problems. I wonder what the maintenance schedule and 'bitch sheet' (problem list filed after every flight) are going to tell us.

 

[rainsol]

Here you go… incompetent dei co pilot selected flaps up instead of gear up… boom.

Good find....That is not a problem with the airplane, pilot error for certain. However its much more exciting to blame Boeing by the media even though they are not to blame. The door blowing off the 737 last year was not Boeing either, you can certainly blame DEI for it,,,the procedure for puting it on included putting the nuts on the bolts..further more, Alaska Air had a pressure leak in that airplane and continued to fly it.

 

[ll74]

I called it.

Not like it was going to be anything else to these idiots.

 

[ll74]

I don’t remember you posting that an incompetent DEI co-pilot likely caused the crash.

Link?

Lol....you can review this thread for information as needed.

 

[ll74]

No, you didn’t, not under ElleElle.

Hahaha!

Of course

 

[ll74]

Of course

I'm truly surprised no one has suggested DEI caused it yet.

 

[Lance_Castro]

Good find....That is not a problem with the airplane, pilot error for certain.

Remember…You can’t short sell a pilot to make a quick buck.

Lol

 

[Bn2f]

Here you go… incompetent dei co pilot selected flaps up instead of gear up… boom.

There were 242 passengers and crew on board the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, including 169 Indian nationals, 53 Britons, seven Portuguese nationals and one Canadian.

I guess this flight originating out of India shuda listened to fuckwad Lance here and had the 1 Canadian, a female doctor named Nirali Sureshkumar Patel, fly the plane . Fuckin dumbass piece of shit.

 

[Lance_Castro]

There were 242 passengers and crew on board the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, including 169 Indian nationals, 53 Britons, seven Portuguese nationals and one Canadian.

I guess this flight originating out of India shuda listened to fuckwad Lance here and had the 1 Canadian, a female doctor named Nirali Sureshkumar Patel, fly the plane . Fuckin dumbass piece of shit.

Stupid american…. thinks a Dentist named nirali patel is a Canadian Doctor.

Bwahaha!

Dr. Nirali Patel
Dentist
Dr. Nirali Patel is a graduate of Government Dental College and Hospital in India, where she completed the Bachelor of Dental Surgery program.

 

[Bn2f]

Stupid american…. thinks a Dentist named nirali patel is a Canadian Doctor.

Bwahaha!

Dr. Nirali Patel
Dentist
Dr. Nirali Patel is a graduate of Government Dental College and Hospital in India, where she completed the Bachelor of Dental Surgery program.

Please. Continue.
Educate me more on this.

 

[Rebel5soul]

The RAT being deployed is a BIG indicator of BIG problems. I wonder what the maintenance schedule and 'bitch sheet' (problem list filed after every flight) are going to tell us.

It is now fairly certain that the RAT was deployed. It deploys automatically in 3 instances.

Catastrophic hydraulic failure.
Catastrophic electrical failure.
Loss of BOTH engines.