Am I really the only person who finds

[AngelaSaxon]

This time I read from the new stories instead of the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R section: stressjunkie's Jade Gets Her Script. Essentially a casting couch series, this time Jade is getting a part, giving a blowjob, picking up a script.

In between expressions of disgust, comments about feeling degraded and resigned, there's literally a single word in the whole story saying that when he, the perpetrator, cums, she feels all those things but also, out of nowhere, she feels 'exhilarated'. Then we're back to disgusted, resigned, degraded, and coerced.

It's probably the most remarkably token version of a token effort toward her being thrilled at some point, and I think that shows genuine chutzpah on the part of the author.

I guess it's just a coerced blowjob. (Personally I don't even remember being vaguely exhilarated, but everyone's experience differs...)

 

[HopefulDaddy]

I appreciate the intensity. And I think previous comments missed your point. There's a long history of women being forced into a submissive role. Whether she liked it seems to vary dramatically based on the taste of the writer.
Personally, I am tired of female roles so frequently being passive. 'I' like sexually aggressive women. I like that a woman can choose a guy and not be treated like a slut for it.
Sadly, the tone of these stories all comes down to power. Many men talk about how women have all the power because they have vaginas. And men can't have it without them. So, despite being metaphorically 'on top' in the world, they still feel inferior in many ways.
Granted, there's a ton of psychoanalysis in there... I find rape in any form distasteful at best. Horrific at worst. But some people are seriously turned on by the idea of shaming and dominance beyond role play.
I'd say that it's unhealthy for anyone to view what they desire as lesser and truly find joy in beating them down.
I guess the point is that we all have to figure out what we want and how we want to be and live that way. If you don't like that kind of stuff, find those who share your ideas on the subject.
wow.. I went off there, huh? Anyway. I am just glad you got to say what you were feeling on the subject.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Incidentally, has anyone (in the world) ever read the novelization of the movie Porky's II: The Next Day? I haven't, and if I ever saw the movie I remember literally nothing about it.

However, the novelization, with the author listed as Ron Renauld, (a) exists, and (b) apparently contains a chapter entitled "The Master Baiter Lays a Trap”, in which one of the central characters is thinking about, according to one description, "putting a glory hole on stage in the school auditorium (so that female performers will accidentally fall onto a penis while doing splits)".

How is this not 'legendary'?! It is at least as remarkable as the way that guy in the mascot costume manages to...have sex?... with the sorority girl in the ambulance in the full, European release version of the unbelievably awful Animal House rip-off, King Frat.

 

[HopefulDaddy]

That entire period portrays men and women of that age as rediculous, uncontrollable sex addled buffoons.
Still, when someone wants something like that and they are with someone willing to give them their desires (and reciprocate), there's plenty of sexual crazy to go around.
Mr. and Mrs. Smith's combat sex scene is out of my comfort zone, but for some people, that was off the charts.
There is no universal rule about what we want or what is 'okay' in a consenting relationship. *shrug* The trick is to find someone(s) to share with.
Jeez.. do I sound pompous? If so, sorry.

 

[kindaDisturbing]

When writing my first story, I had concerns, even if it consisted of the opposite. I mean, there was a section that had what I preferred to call reverse-rape, where the guy was the victim.
The main plot I had in mind was about female domination but I wanted to make it a bit disturbing.
When it came to that part, I read real life confessions or interviews. To make sure I didn't disrespect a real life victim. And, I realized it was nothing like a 'fantasy' for many of them. Not like most guys think or joke about it, as if it would be a hot occasion to remember.
I considered giving up on that but I also read about others, who experienced such a thing and didn't care.
As I said, it was a phase in my story, just to haul things to the main plot. As done in many stories. In other words, I touched a sensitive subject, just to emphasize the hotness of a female getting what she wanted, knowing that I wasn't considerate enough.
I did that again in another story. Just because I still find it disturbingly intriguing. Just in stories, not in real life.
So, I agree with you.
Even if it is about a male victim in the hands of a woman, it is not only hardly realistic for the guy to not feel broken, but it is also a very sensitive subject, considering that a real victim could feel bad when reading about it.
When it comes to women, it is a bleeding wound in all societies and I guess I would never be able to read one to the end without having a stomach pain, let alone finding it realistic or hot. If it is realistic, even worse.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I still haven't found a way to properly describe one of the most common tropes in NC/R fiction here, one which seems to be an almost infallible indication that it was written by a man (whatever the supposed gender of the author, incidentally) and written for men.

I'm referring to the weird, almost psychic smugness guys in such stories have in relation to the women they assault.

As a typical example, I just read a story in which the guy, having raped a teenage girl who lives next door, tells her that he knows she won't tell anyone he raped her because then he probably wouldn't come and fuck her again. I mean, obviously she was portrayed as having had a truly phenomenal orgasm, because of course, but beyond that the guy just asserts that and by implication somehow not only is correct, he knows he's correct.

I know these are male fantasies primarily i.e. overwhelmingly, but is this smug ability to predict the reactions of women - which always involves incredibly implausible or at least hardly certain responses - is this part of it for many people?!

Because it's really quite common.

I know that a trope appearing frequently in NC/R writing here doesn't necessarily mean it's particularly desired by readers. So here's a question: do any men ever find it annoying? Ridiculous obviously, but kind of repulsive too?

Quite often it only makes sense, this amazingly reliable, almost psychic ability, as an implicit statement about the truth of women in general that this man understands, a truth which varies but is never, and this is a key point, actually true... It's a bizarrely consistent literary device that I can't think of a real equivalent of in other contemporary fiction.

The 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R page very recently listed a story called 'Loss of Control' by DeadlyVelvet, in which the ability of the protagonist to correctly anticipate the positive sexual responses of the complete stranger he's violently assaulting at a bus stop is so bizarrely reliable even for wish fulfilment fiction that at first I honestly thought it might turn out that his perceptions were systematically distorted by projection and delusion, in effect seeing what is most convenient for him.

It didn't turn out that way.

 

[StillStunned]

I know that a trope appearing frequently in NC/R writing here doesn't necessarily mean it's particularly desired by readers. So here's a question: do any men ever find it annoying? Ridiculous obviously, but kind of repulsive too?

Speaking for myself, it's part of the reason why I don't read or write non-consent. The "reluctance" of "Ben's Big Mistake" is about as far as I'll ever take it.

It's like the scenes you used to get in movies, where the heroine (aka the protagonist's reward) is angry with him, but then he kisses her and she melts in his arms. I think "10 Things I Hate About You" was the first time I saw the heroine reacting as you'd expect a normal person to react.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Speaking for myself, it's part of the reason why I don't read or write non-consent. The "reluctance" of "Ben's Big Mistake" is about as far as I'll ever take it.

It's like the scenes you used to get in movies, where the heroine (aka the protagonist's reward) is angry with him, but then he kisses her and she melts in his arms. I think "10 Things I Hate About You" was the first time I saw the heroine reacting as you'd expect a normal person to react.

I think mainstream cinema started to take distance from that particular trope after Blade Runner.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I appreciate the intensity. And I think previous comments missed your point. There's a long history of women being forced into a submissive role. Whether she liked it seems to vary dramatically based on the taste of the writer.

Angela has been consistent with her thoughts. I agree. Putting a token (oh I love the abuse) feeling of pleasure in a scene where the character is a victim seems out of place. I agree that this is an unfortunate result from following the moderator's rules. They (moderators) are trying to quell abject abuse/torture etc by at least having the victim aroused. And some of the examples like Angela is describing ruins the story when the author tries to offer a token.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I write a lot in NC/R. I try to portray my characters responding reasonably to the circumstances IF they have a little screw loose. In the latter chapters of my Gotta Pay the Piper I propose the idea that competitive women become almost abusive to each other because of living in a slave society. They take what was one time rivalry and petty one-upmanship to a whole new level. Taking the mean girl (we rule the school) mentality to a new level.
Yeah it takes a bit of to make a 'beatme, fuck me, make me feel cheap', 'but I love it!' mentality and make it logical. Yet that is the core of fetish, bdsm, Nc etc.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Hey while I'm here, while you're here: I just read a work suggested by the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R page, it was one of those stories where a woman is kidnapped and blindfolded and assaulted and she's utterly confused and scared but eventually gets excited and has a mind-blowing orgasm, of course, and then in the last paragraph or last sentence or last phrase or last word it turns out she knew the kidnappers all along and it was the work of her husband or lover or whoever and she says something like "Same time next week Tom?" and all of the previous description of her thoughts and feelings only retrospectively makes sense if you re-classify everything as roleplay - roleplaying fear, roleplaying confusion, etcetera - though they'd appeared in an unambiguous internal monologue that at a literal level makes that interpretation nonsensical?

It was one of those. There's hundreds.

Anyway, it was also an example of a story with tags that often seem like random words. Words and phrases I assume from the story which it's very difficult to imagine get searched for by many people as tags. As in not many people are specifically looking for stories with the tag "bed feels", for example.

Does anyone understand how and why there are so many stories with random phrases as tags? Is it just a radical misunderstanding of what tags are for?

This time the weird thing was some tags were random phrases and some made sense as tags - it's usually one or the other isn't it?

Just vaguely curious...

 

[ElectricBlue]

Does anyone understand how and why there are so many stories with random phrases as tags? Is it just a radical misunderstanding of what tags are for?

This time the weird thing was some tags were random phrases and some made sense as tags - it's usually one or the other isn't it?

Given that many long term and accomplished authors don't seem to know how tags work, it's no real surprise that new or infrequent authors have no clue at all.

The information on tags is available, but so many writers don't know where it is, nor how to use tags - despite the Tags section in the Submit Form.

 

[RejectReality]

Hey while I'm here, while you're here: I just read a work suggested by the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R page, it was one of those stories where a woman is kidnapped and blindfolded and assaulted and she's utterly confused and scared but eventually gets excited and has a mind-blowing orgasm, of course, and then in the last paragraph or last sentence or last phrase or last word it turns out she knew the kidnappers all along and it was the work of her husband or lover or whoever and she says something like "Same time next week Tom?" and all of the previous description of her thoughts and feelings only retrospectively makes sense if you re-classify everything as roleplay - roleplaying fear, roleplaying confusion, etcetera - though they'd appeared in an unambiguous internal monologue that at a literal level makes that interpretation nonsensical?

It was one of those. There's hundreds.

Anyway, it was also an example of a story with tags that often seem like random words. Words and phrases I assume from the story which it's very difficult to imagine get searched for by many people as tags. As in not many people are specifically looking for stories with the tag "bed feels", for example.

Does anyone understand how and why there are so many stories with random phrases as tags? Is it just a radical misunderstanding of what tags are for?

This time the weird thing was some tags were random phrases and some made sense as tags - it's usually one or the other isn't it?

Just vaguely curious...

Long, long ago, when tags were first introduced, some stories that remained untagged had their tags filled with bits from the text. ( by an algorithm, I believe ) If the story in question is more than a couple of decades old, there's a good chance the author didn't add those tags.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Given that many long term and accomplished authors don't seem to know how tags work, it's no real surprise that new or infrequent authors have no clue at all.

The information on tags is available, but so many writers don't know where it is, nor how to use tags - despite the Tags section in the Submit Form.

I understand what you're saying and it all sounds reasonable and plausible... but how do they choose a tag so that a minor mention of particular furniture becomes a tag indicating that "bed felt" is a thing in this story? How does one even go about choosing such a random phrase?

Actually, a couple of times I've felt like whoever was choosing the tags was literally taking random phrases from the story, as if maybe they believed a tag must be something appearing in the text - a fragment ripped from the story, not a highly-abbreviated attempt to describe the content and key, especially sexual, themes...

(Edit: The post above does answer and certainly address some of the issues I've raised here - I was writing this post at the moment the immediately preceding post was, well, posted. So I didn't see it until after I'd finished and posted this message. So there it is lol )

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Long, long ago, when tags were first introduced, some stories that remained untagged had their tags filled with bits from the text. ( by an algorithm, I believe ) If the story in question is more than a couple of decades old, there's a good chance the author didn't add those tags.

This! I was trying to grope toward suggesting this possibility at the exact moment you posted this reply - thank you very much. I hadn't compared dates of posting. I was just thinking about if there might be a pattern in how the phrases are taken from the stories, so you've potentially saved me at least some time...

More broadly, intentionally or otherwise, you've helped me to embrace reality.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I understand what you're saying and it all sounds reasonable and plausible... but how do they choose a tag so that a minor mention of particular furniture becomes a tag indicating that "bed felt" is a thing in this story? How does one even go about choosing such a random phrase?

The author probably didn't choose it, they just made it up. There are lists of the most used tags, but authors can make them up for themselves. That would definitely explain the odd ones you find.

Actually, a couple of times I've felt like whoever was choosing the tags was literally taking random phrases from the story, as if maybe they believed a tag must be something appearing in the text - a fragment ripped from the story, not a highly-abbreviated attempt to describe the content and key, especially sexual, themes...

Laurel has been known to add tags, but I suspect with the volume of stories these days, she no longer bothers.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I stopped reading any of these stories for a little while and when I read one, the first one that appeared in the 'Random Stories' section of the NC/R page, after a guy attacked the woman, had her physically restrained and such, it suddenly includes this out to nowhere:

""You won't go to the cops. You've never felt anything like I've made you feel, and soon, you'll want more. I will show you pain and pleasure you never thought possible, but you have to earn it first."

And the implication is that he's right! And that he knows that somehow! How, you ask? As with the many many similar stories, I can only assume that the women on the planet portrayed are all malleable and predictable in ways completely different from the real world... In this world, every single woman is always so instantly and overwhelmingly into BDSM cliches on top of forced sex that we all instantly become addicted to the specific sexual possibilities of whoever first rapes us... because they've introduced us to these new joys...

Lol. I don't know, if this is really part of the fantasy of all these guys, maybe they should at least add 'parallel.universe' to their tags?

 

[AngelaSaxon]

You know, there's a surprisingly large number of stories in the NC/R section in which women are treated like dairy cows.

When did this become a kink?

I don't remember Havelock Ellis or Freud discussing this tendency. So if it was a thing in the past, it doesn't seem to have been as visible to people.

I have absolutely no interest in kink shaming anyone and obviously people should pursue and enjoy whatever turns them on. I want to be absolutely clear about this.

On the other hand, they should all be ashamed of themselves for this kink and there's no way anyone should pursue or enjoy this I mean come on yuck...

 

[alohadave]

I have absolutely no interest in kink shaming anyone and obviously people should pursue and enjoy whatever turns them on. I want to be absolutely clear about this.

On the other hand, they should all be ashamed of themselves for this kink and there's no way anyone should pursue or enjoy this I mean come on yuck...

"I'm not kink-shaming, except that I am."

No one is forcing you to read any of these stories. You obviously have an issue with NC/R, yet you seek them out to complain about them. Now we know you think hu-cow is gross.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

"I'm not kink-shaming, except that I am."

No one is forcing you to read any of these stories. You obviously have an issue with NC/R, yet you seek them out to complain about them. Now we know you think hu-cow is gross.

Did you seriously read those paragraphs talking about kink-shaming and think you'd cleverly spotted a contradiction I'd unknowingly exposed?

As to NC/R stories, I have many thoughts and criticisms about many aspects of many stories individually and as they reflect shared tropes and patterns. Trying to explain those thoughts and criticisms is part of the purpose of this thread.

My feelings about 'hucow' aren't particularly stronger than my feelings about...I don't know, foot fetishism? No, vore, vore is a better example. It's so far from my sexual tastes that it only intellectually registers as sexual at all...

Edit: My first paragraph here comes across as notably harsher than I intended; I know irony and sarcasm are often misperceived when people are reading in a context such as this.

 

[Bacchaewiththegoodhair]

This exact trope prompted me to start writing again! I love a noncon story, but I have a major issue with the ones where the woman is definitely not into it, is actively resisting, and then there's this magic switch that gets flipped and she realizes that she really wanted it all along. And it's never in reaction to something particularly titillating or creative, it's like having her clit rubbed.

Because there is The Rule that we need to follow with noncon stories, I usually make it feel a little bit less out of nowhere by establishing that the lead is into that sort of play in a CNC setting, and that the "real deal" is conflicting and obviously upsetting, but is creating confusing feelings within her.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

This exact trope prompted me to start writing again! I love a noncon story, but I have a major issue with the ones where the woman is definitely not into it, is actively resisting, and then there's this magic switch that gets flipped and she realizes that she really wanted it all along. And it's never in reaction to something particularly titillating or creative, it's like having her clit rubbed.

Because there is The Rule that we need to follow with noncon stories, I usually make it feel a little bit less out of nowhere by establishing that the lead is into that sort of play in a CNC setting, and that the "real deal" is conflicting and obviously upsetting, but is creating confusing feelings within her.

That approach at least makes it a question of the individual's history and psychology. And you're not the first NC/R writer who has talked to me recently of that same observation and something of a similar solution - at least in the sense of making it based in individual characters rather than putative innate gendered qualities in relation to NC/R experience.

In many stories, it often comes across as based on The Secret Truth Of All Women.

Now I've got nothing against science fiction per se, but it's like everyone is writing the exact same parallel universe. Like the period where more than half of horror movies were based on virtually identical zombie apocalypses.

Except it's all stories organised around the functionally identical myths about women, which is why I start to think it must reflect shared qualities of the sexual fantasies being invoked by a significant stratum of (very much mostly) guys writing for the NC/R section.

 

[AlinaX]

"No! Let me go! Please!"
"Trust me. You're going to love this. See, this here's my trusty Phillips screwdriver, and I just need to... yes, there it is... maybe a little bit tighter?"
"Get that fucking thing away from - Ooh... Actually that's really good."
"I have to be careful, though. If I go too far, you'll start gushing everywhere."

 

[alohadave]

Did you seriously read those paragraphs talking about kink-shaming and think you'd cleverly spotted a contradiction I'd unknowingly exposed?

You openly contradicted yourself, now when called on it, you try to backpedal, claiming that you are being ironic or sarcastic.

Claiming sarcasm or irony is like trying to use a get out of jail free card. None of your other posts have indicated that you are anything but serious about your critiques.

 

[AlinaX]

I'm always putting her behind bars, but she never serves free drinks.