All pornography bad, women not able to give consent, argue some feminists

[Shy Tall Guy]

I am not saying this is typical of all feminists, just some radical few. I knew of this issue with some as I had heard of it before, and I was not looking to research it, but came across this one article while searching via google to see if there was a market to sell some of my used pornography (mostly print material).

I thought some of you would find this interesting, especially the argument that women are not capable of giving consent. Here is a quote from the article:

I appealed directly to women who were involved in the production of hard core pornography such as S/M, where it seemed most likely that violence would occur. In the hundreds of such adult women I spoke with, every single one said they had not been coerced into performing pornography, nor did they know of a woman who had been. I decided to take the articulate voices of these adult women seriously and not dismiss them, as anti-porn feminists were doing.

To such evidence, radical feminists routinely answer that no "healthy" woman would consent to pornography. Therefore, such women were damaged by a male culture and incapable of rendering consent. The Minneapolis ordinance had argued that women, like children, needed special protection under the law: "Children are incapable of consenting to engage in pornographic conduct, even absent physical coercion, and therefore require special protection. By the same token, the physical and psychological well- being of women ought to be afforded comparable protection..."

And here is the article:

http://www.zetetics.com/mac/isil.htm

 

[lilminx]

Gee, that's really one step towards equal rights for women- they're saying that women who are in porn have minds like children, therefore they need to be protected. What the fuck will they say next that will oppress women even more?

 

[Guest]

I always thought the women in porn were the ultimate feminists.

 

[happyaslarry]

BS!

If a woman chooses to make a living in porn - thats her choice!
She weighed the pros and cons and made her decision...
If she were forced or unhappy...thats a different story entirely...

Dee

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I always thought the women in porn were the ultimate feminists.

I don't know about that. Maybe some of the newer women in porn - especially those that are writing/controlling/producing it, but usually it is the men who are in control.

I would say that some women are indeed victimized by their participation, even coerced, but even if they are, does that make all pornography endemically bad? Or are they victimized because there is a lot of money in porn and we have, with laws and scorn, driven the porn industry underground where scum who victimize women live? Surely such porn as actual snuff/rape/torture films victimize their subjects, but most porn is not like that. On a higher level, some porn does objectify women as sex objects - but so does society in general.

 

[Guest]

Good thread topic -

What a ridiculous argument they make, Shy Guy - it demeans all women when others decide what is "best" for us.

I would also tend to agree that most porn is directed towards the male consumer. But I imagine when more women reach management levels in the industry that could change (it did with car sales - once dealers recognized women did more purchasing than men they changed their sales pitch)

I think I read somewhere that women porn stars are paid more than men. Why is the act of creating a porn video more demeaning for the woman than it is for the man? Makes no sense to me.

I suppose there will always be a select group who believe they have all the answers to all the world's concerns.
(It's so nice they are looking out for us! LOL)

 

[naudiz]

Greeeeeeeat. Now instead of having men tell us what's best for us, we have a handful of women telling us what's best for us?

You've come a long way, baby.

I'm off to go be oppressed. Don't wait up.

 

[Never]

Um gee..
Asking if porn is demeaning to women at a porn site. That won't get a slanted answer.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Um gee..
Asking if porn is demeaning to women at a porn site. That won't get a slanted answer.

LOL! Yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me either.

 

[naudiz]

Porn can be demeaning to women. That doesn't mean it has to be or always is. It can be. It could be demeaning to men, too, depending on what kind of market you're into, but mostly, if it's going to be demeaning to someone, women are usually the oh so lucky recipients.

However.

I think it's ridiculous to say all porn is demeaning to women, and that women cannot consent to taking part in it. Isn't it a little bent that people claiming to fight for the rights of women are delegating them to the status of children and animals?

 

[Never]

Shy Tall Guy:
"LOL! Yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me either. "

I didn't think so but I had to make a comment.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Shy Tall Guy:
"LOL! Yeah, the irony wasn't lost on me either. "

I didn't think so but I had to make a comment.

Actually, I found most of the answers interesting; the general perspective seems to be that everybody was for people to decide what is best for themselves. I just hope/wish that people would apply that perspective to other aspects of life and politics. Of course, most people on the 'net lean more towards the Libertarian POV than those that don't. With more an more people getting online that gives me hope for the future.

 

[Never]

Just so everyone knows:
All Feminists are anti-porn
All Feminists are pro-censorship
All Feminists hate men
All Feminists are anti-marriage
All Feminists are anti-sex
All Feminists think all sex is rape
All U.S. Feminists were all gaga for Bill Clinton
All Feminists are all Democrats
All Feminists don't shave their legs or wear makeup or "dress purty"
All Feminists are masculine
All Feminists are white, middle-class, and middle-aged
All Feminists are Pro-choice and pro-abortion
All Feminists are atheists
All Feminists are all pro-gun control
All Feminists are female.

 

[Laurel]

They are? That's astounding.

There are people on the left who are anti-porn. There are people on the right who are anti-porn. To claim that anti-porn sentiment is some feminist notion would be silly. The religious right has been banning smut before "feminism" was a word.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

They are? That's astounding.

I think Never was being... well, being Never - in a word, facetious.

There are people on the left who are anti-porn. There are people on the right - LOTS of them - who are anti-porn. To claim that anti-porn sentiment is some feminist notion is stupid. The religious right has been banning smut before "feminism" was a word.

The article makes no such claim, nor did I. The article itself was written by a feminist author. If you want to define a feminist as someone who believe women should have equal rights and empowerment as men, then I am a feminist. The rest is bullshit.

 

[Never]

They are? That's astounding.

There are people on the left who are anti-porn. There are people on the right who are anti-porn. To claim that anti-porn sentiment is some feminist notion would be silly. The religious right has been banning smut before "feminism" was a word.

*wonders why the board won't let me edit your post*

Yes. If I write it then it must be true. I think I'll write a book about it.

 

[sigh]

It's amazing what people will give up in the name of freedom.

 

[Laurel]

I think Never was being... well, being Never - in a word, facetious.

She was? Damnit. She's leading me astray again...

The article makes no such claim, nor did I. The article itself was written by a feminist author. If you want to define a feminist as someone who believe women should have equal rights and empowerment as men, then I am a feminist. The rest is bullshit.

I noticed your disclaimer, and that's cool. As far as the feminism bit... Anyone can label themselves anything, unfortunately. Like when wackos label themselves as Christians, then write some hate-filled spew that is anything but Christian. Those who aren't saavy can think that's representative of all Christians when it's not. Same here.

 

[Ishmael]

Gee, that's really one step towards equal rights for women- they're saying that women who are in porn have minds like children, therefore they need to be protected. What the fuck will they say next that will oppress women even more?

So much truth in that.

The extreme right tries to tell everyone how they should live their lives, while the extreme left just wants to 'help' their favored identified class because it's obvious that they can't help themselves.

Different approachs, same results.

Ishmael

 

[Never]

Left, Right, or in the Middle people love to have P-O-W-E-R.

 

[Ishmael]

Left, Right, or in the Middle people love to have P-O-W-E-R.

With power comes responsibility. And there's the rub. Most people that seek power don't want to accept the responsibility that comes with it.

Oh well.

Ishmael

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

So much truth in that.

The extreme right tries to tell everyone how they should live their lives, while the extreme left just wants to 'help' their favored identified class because it's obvious that they can't help themselves.

Different approachs, same results.

Ishmael

I'm not so sure it's not backwards. While there are a few zealots in some places that don't want Huckleberry Finn on the shelves of the local school, I don't think that there are many at all on the right that want to tell anyone how to live...I was under the impression they valued individual freedom. It's the ones like in the article above that really scare me. They want to abrogate freedoms...I don't want a nanny telling me how I should live my life if I don't agree with them...

Maybe I'm naive about that, I live in near the city and most of my travels are to cities. Is it different out in the country?

 

[Laurel]

Extremists suck monkey nuts.

 

[celiaKitten]

I'm not so sure it's not backwards. While there are a few zealots in some places that don't want Huckleberry Finn on the shelves of the local school, I don't think that there are many at all on the right that want to tell anyone how to live...I was under the impression they valued individual freedom. It's the ones like in the article above that really scare me. They want to abrogate freedoms...I don't want a nanny telling me how I should live my life...

Maybe I'm naive about that, I live in near the city and most of my travels are to cities. Is it different out in the country?

*raises hand* Sorry, LTGR, but I live in the birthbasket of the right wingers. And, they generally want to tell me how to live. I could state more examples, but that'd be one long ass post.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Extremists suck monkey nuts.

Agreed.