Aggression and violence

[TheEarl]

Thought this deserved a thread of its own.

I think aggression is an interesting one to be worried about. I personally have a short way from my brain to my fists. When I get really upset or frustrated or annoyed, I hit things. But the difference between me and someone who's violent is that I hit inanimate objects (my punchbag is a life-saver when I'm courseworking).

I recognise that I do get aggressive at times and that aggression actually used to scare my former Lady at times. She hated seeing me hit my punchbag because she was worried that there was only a msall step from the punchbag to a person.

I'm not violent. I can only think of one punch that I've ever thrown at a real person and God knows I've been provoked many many times. But I do have aggression. I'm curious to know if Liar would accept someone with those kind of character traits or whether you did mean aggression and not violence.

The Earl

And as for your comments on violence Earl, did you know that my ex once dented the roof of my car? He thumped it when we had an arguement, right on top of where I was sitting. That scared me. He then stormed off in a furious temper. At the time I went after him and we made up because he said that he hadn't meant it and he certainly hadn't been trying to hit me. I accepted him back then, not sure if I would now though, looking back on it I could have been getting into a really dangerous situation.

Elsie

xxx

What's the opinion of the AH. Would it worry you to have a boyfriend who punches inanimate objects (really quite fiercely) when he's frustrated or angry? Would you feel safe going out with someone who you knew was stronger and had shown serious aggression to inanimate objects?

Discuss.

The Earl

 

[Elsie Grey]

Depends I guess on the person and the circumstances. Like I said I went back to my ex then, but I wouldn't now. Fortunately Jacks a sweetie and I have yet to see him even get cross, never mind get violent, so I probably won't think about it until the situation arises if it ever does!

Elsie

xxx

 

[ezlay_2nite]

I think your right, aggression and violence are two very different things. One can be aggressive while not showing any forms of violence. One can also be aggressive with out being angry. It’s a very slippery slope, and one should look for the root problems of anger which leads to violent behavior. Violence is an expression of anger or frustration in most cases. Most times, it stems from a feeling of not being heard or understood. It is a form of expression, for people who lack proper communication skills.

Here is an example: Person A is angry out of frustration with person B. Person A instead of trying to communicate properly to resolve the issue, projects their feelings onto a punching bag. The punching bag becomes person B, now person A is free to express their feelings in an unhealthy way, and getting the feeling of being heard or understood.

Just my 2 cents, I maybe wrong. I couldn’t be with a person I was afraid of even for a moment. He could be the nicest guy in the world, but how could he be, when violence is so ugly ?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

You can never tell when someone will snap. A person who uses violence, even against inanimate objects, to relieve tension in a situation is just a hair's breadth from taking the step to using violence on me. You just never know what the trigger might be to take them across the line and not knowing, you walk on egg shells. that isn't healthy for a relationship, imho.

 

[TheEarl]

You can never tell when someone will snap. A person who uses violence, even against inanimate objects, to relieve tension in a situation is just a hair's breadth from taking the step to using violence on me. You just never know what the trigger might be to take them across the line and not knowing, you walk on egg shells. that isn't healthy for a relationship, imho.

But that's something of a generalisation. I don't believe there is a trigger for me to hit a lady (unless she's given me the paddle and told me how bad she's been of course ). I can't even strike properly at women in karate sparring and that's feather-touches in a controlled environment. Violence against any person is completely against all of my moral codas and I've actually been punched and kicked without retaliating.

Yet I've put a hole in a drywall before whilst crying over my former Lady. It's not an everyday occurence, but I've hit things from frustration before, although never in front of anyone else. Would you count me as a 'safe' person to go out with?

The Earl

 

[Elsie Grey]

You're lovely sweetie, but violence is scary. For example - I know if you wanted to hit me (not that you ever would!) I'd be helpless because you're an awful lot stronger.

So if you were angry a lot and I was thinking about going out with you and I knew you did things like the hole in your wall, it'd probably make me hestitate a little because I know what my ex was like. Thing is though, you aren't really angry a lot and even when you have been cross with me you've never even come close to frightening me (through violence or any other means) despite sometimes making me upset, so maybe I wouldn't hesitate. I'm all mixed up now!

I guess it'd be down to whoever you go out with to make that decision because it's a personal thing.

Elsie

xxx

 

[cantdog]

Colleen's reply is a generalization, but as such, it's quite valid. I dislike that sort of thing, and I'm not contemplating a close relationship. Such people as car-denters are rather kept at arm's length, out of simple self-defense and caution.

Worth the investment to revise the behaviors. I like the bag, but I'd feel better if it were a formal thing, something a person had to get ready, then go do, and then come back with no growling and palm-punching or other evidences of residual frustration. A ritual outlet. As such it could be quite fierce, but the context makes it more removed from the interpersonal. You go off to do it. Spontaneous car dents are intimidating, and rightly so.

Or so it seems to me.

 

[TheEarl]

Colleen's reply is a generalization, but as such, it's quite valid. I dislike that sort of thing, and I'm not contemplating a close relationship. Such people as car-denters are rather kept at arm's length, out of simple self-defense and caution.

Worth the investment to revise the behaviors. I like the bag, but I'd feel better if it were a formal thing, something a person had to get ready, then go do, and then come back with no growling and palm-punching or other evidences of residual frustration. A ritual outlet. As such it could be quite fierce, but the context makes it more removed from the interpersonal. You go off to do it. Spontaneous car dents are intimidating, and rightly so.

Or so it seems to me.

So you'd say the difference depends on spontaneity or pre-planned ritual? Or is the public/private thing that makes hte difference.

Very curious about this now.

The Earl

 

[minsue]

Hrm, I'm finding myself quite torn here. I agree with Colly, Cant, and the rest, but at the same time I, like Earl, have taken anger out on inanimate objects a number of times. Most of my wall punching was as a teenager, when everything happens for the first time and when one is often helpless against the world of adults and has less control over life, but I have also hit walls on occasion as an adult.

I've never struck a loved one and I can never imagine a situation in which I would. I can only recall striking one person in my entire life and that was in high school. I probably wouldn't react the same way now, but then I also don't wear skirts anymore so someone now could not stand behind me and carefully lift the back of my skirt in front of 20-30 people as he did so I guess I'll never know.

I can't imagine a situation in which I would be violent against another person. Violence towards myself is not unheard of though and, considering the bruises and scrapes, hitting walls is really more along those lines.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Hrm, I'm finding myself quite torn here. I agree with Colly, Cant, and the rest, but at the same time I, like Earl, have taken anger out on inanimate objects a number of times. Most of my wall punching was as a teenager, when everything happens for the first time and when one is often helpless against the world of adults and has less control over life, but I have also hit walls on occasion as an adult.

I've never struck a loved one and I can never imagine a situation in which I would. I can only recall striking one person in my entire life and that was in high school. I probably wouldn't react the same way now, but then I also don't wear skirts anymore so someone now could not stand behind me and carefully lift the back of my skirt in front of 20-30 people as he did so I guess I'll never know.

I can't imagine a situation in which I would be violent against another person. Violence towards myself is not unheard of though and, considering the bruises and scrapes, hitting walls is really more along those lines.

I have struck a loved one (just my brother, and he was a lot bigger than me and hit me much harder.) I've worked very, very hard on my temper because I know the potential for hitting someone is there. I never want to get to that point and I don't like being pushed to lose my temper because I don't want to discover what I'm capable of. Frankly it scares me.

No, I don't believe someone who hits and punches things will hit and punch their lover one day. It's a ridiculous and childish way to act out, it shows an unsavory side of their character, but it's not a signal of violence. I've done it. I do it to relieve my anger - but ONLY when I'm alone and I feel like I'm going to explode if I don't release some of my rage; I'm not proud of it, but it helps, and believe me when I say I would never hit anyone.

 

[English Lady]

Well my husband has hit a wall,well door actually twice since i've known him. Both times we're a long time ago now, before we were married (5-6 years ago I guess) and he was a very troubled man back then. He still battleds with his depression but he communicates it better now.

Anyhow. first time he hit a picture hanging on the back of the bathroom door, shattered that and cut his hand to buggery. Second time, back of the door again and just banged his knuckles about a bit.

My husband is so not violent that these outbursts are totally uncharacteristic and were born of deep seated frustration, resentment and grief. He's worked out those issues now and I cannot remember the last time he hit anything. (Ok so he slams doors now and then-don't we all?*L*)

I know he could hit, when pushed to the limits but I trust he would never hit me or my daughter. That trust is there because I am 99.9% certain he'd never hit us. the tiny possibility comes in because he is only human and ou can never 100% predict how a person will or won't react.

 

[NoJo]

First of all, Earl, kudos to you for being frank about his.

One of my sons used to be violent. The first thing we did was get him a punchbag. Then we helped him understand the cause of his violence.

Quite a few "adult" men are violent. It can be damaging and dangerous. Despite my "Sub Joe" name, I'm prone to be aggressive and violent. It has got me into trouble with family, friends, strangers, and even the police on one occasion.

I'd have suggested Earl, that you did something less antisocial than hit a punchbag (they're fine for kids though), and more regular, like go for a run, chop wood, or go down to your local boxing ring. If you do this habitually, you're less likely to have a dangerous amount of anger bottled up. Manifesting your anger physically and publicly could eventually lead to you becoming more isolated from other people, and that will obviously make things worse.

The second thing is really important: learn to identify when you're becoming violent and deal with it early. I frequently announce that I'm "going out for a bit", when I feel an impending rush of anger and frustration at home -- the anger is often completely unprovoked, I just know that it's coming.


The third thing is to understand what are the factors that cause you to be angry, and deal with the cause. Sometimes some of the causes are too far back in your past to do much about. But sometimes tackling part of the cause may keep your violence in check. With me it was lack of exercise, and too much coffee. Although they weren't at the bottom of my violent tendency, dealing with them has effectively stopped me being dangerous to myself and others, and has allowed me to slowly deal with the deeper reasons for my aggression.

Joe.

 

[carsonshepherd]

But that's something of a generalisation. I don't believe there is a trigger for me to hit a lady (unless she's given me the paddle and told me how bad she's been of course ). I can't even strike properly at women in karate sparring and that's feather-touches in a controlled environment. Violence against any person is completely against all of my moral codas and I've actually been punched and kicked without retaliating.

Yet I've put a hole in a drywall before whilst crying over my former Lady. It's not an everyday occurence, but I've hit things from frustration before, although never in front of anyone else. Would you count me as a 'safe' person to go out with?

The Earl

I would, if I were female. Like I said on the other thread. You did it alone, not to intimidate or scare someone physically weaker. That is all about control. I'm not proud of kicking and punching walls, and I certainly don't do it a lot, but expressing anger is a necessary thing, and at least walls don't hit back.

 

[TheEarl]

First of all, Earl, kudos to you for being frank about his.

One of my sons used to be violent. The first thing we did was get him a punchbag. Then we helped him understand the cause of his violence.

Quite a few "adult" men are violent. It can be damaging and dangerous. Despite my "Sub Joe" name, I'm prone to be aggressive and violent. It has got me into trouble with family, friends, strangers, and even the police on one occasion.

I'd have suggested Earl, that you did something less antisocial than hit a punchbag (they're fine for kids though), and more regular, like go for a run, chop wood, or go down to your local boxing ring. If you do this habitually, you're less likely to have a dangerous amount of anger bottled up. Manifesting your anger physically and publicly could eventually lead to you becoming more isolated from other people, and that will obviously make things worse.

The second thing is really important: learn to identify when you're becoming violent and deal with it early. I frequently announce that I'm "going out for a bit", when I feel an impending rush of anger and frustration at home -- the anger is often completely unprovoked, I just know that it's coming.


The third thing is to understand what are the factors that cause you to be angry, and deal with the cause. Sometimes some of the causes are too far back in your past to do much about. But sometimes tackling part of the cause may keep your violence in check. With me it was lack of exercise, and too much coffee. Although they weren't at the bottom of my violent tendency, dealing with them has effectively stopped me being dangerous to myself and others, and has allowed me to slowly deal with the deeper reasons for my aggression.

Joe.

I wouldn't say I was violent. Violent to me suggests reacting on other people or around them. Aggressive isn't right either, cause that has undertones of pushing it onto someone else. I'd say that I have aggression.

When I'm under huge amounts of stress (ie coursework) or emotional tension (ie right now), I will hit things. I always know why I've hit something. I'd only really get worried if I started hitting things for no reason. Let's face it, I think LISP and PHP would be enough to get Gandhi a little frustrated.

I like the idea of the finding an activity and would sincerely recommend it to anyone else with aggression. I play and train for rugby 3 times a week and karate once a week (when I have time for the latter that is). Just out of interest, wherebouts do you live so that wood-chopping is a viable activity?

Anyone else got opinions on what is and isn't 'safe'?

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

I would, if I were female.

But as you're a gay man, you wouldn't want to go out with me? I'm hurt.

The Earl

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think that the comments on whether violence is controlled or uncontrolled are significant and valid. When it's in a controlled environment - even if it's just "I'm going to work out on the punching bag for half an hour to get some energy out" - there's a mental and physical level of seperation and discipline.

When it's spontaneous, that unnerves people more, and I think rightly so. Violence is frightening to most people, and seeing violence first hand - even when it's not directed at them - can be quite unsettling. Violent anger is, as Colleen points out, an unpredictable thing. I remember hearing a police officer state once that the most common thing he heard from people who'd committed assaults or even murders was "I don't know what happened. Something just came over me." When observing violent behavior, many people are - justifiably, I think - concerned that they may be drifting into that sort of situation. Assaults and, yes, murders are committed by people who don't think they would or could. With this in the backs of their minds, people are likely to be nervous at displays of violent anger.

I would also observe - and naturally I do not in any way mean you, Earl - that there are those who use aggression to inanimate objects as a threat. It's there to remind others that the potential for violence is always present. Intentionally or unintentionally, someone who resorts to attacking inanimate objects might send this message to his or her loved ones. Timing and proximity have a role as well. In Elsie's example of her ex hitting the car right over her seated position, that looks clearly like a very small displacement from herself, bordering on a deliberate threat. I would have been concerned as well. As Carson points out, your own actions, taken when you are alone, have a very different feel to them.

I would not care to remain in a long term relationship with someone who habitually attacks inanimate objects. If nothing else, it's expensive and tedious repairing or replacing what's destroyed. (Yes, I've had the experience.) That said, I don't think it absolutely unegotiable; I was willing to continue if the behavior ended. As it happened, it worked out.

Shanglan

 

[carsonshepherd]

But as you're a gay man, you wouldn't want to go out with me? I'm hurt.

The Earl

What a cute l'il ego you have, babe.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Both aggression and violence are major turn-offs for me. I've had friends who were aggressive, and although it never spilled over into physical violence towards another person, I always felt nervous going places with them. It wasn't just a case of worrying that they were going to clock someone - I also felt worried that their aggression would cause someone else (with less self-control) to start up a fight.

I'm a firm believer in the old saying - don't get mad, get even.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

But that's something of a generalisation. I don't believe there is a trigger for me to hit a lady (unless she's given me the paddle and told me how bad she's been of course ). I can't even strike properly at women in karate sparring and that's feather-touches in a controlled environment. Violence against any person is completely against all of my moral codas and I've actually been punched and kicked without retaliating.

Yet I've put a hole in a drywall before whilst crying over my former Lady. It's not an everyday occurence, but I've hit things from frustration before, although never in front of anyone else. Would you count me as a 'safe' person to go out with?

The Earl

Honestly Earl, I think know you well enough to feel safe with you. On the other hand, I have dated people I felt safe with and been smacked around.

It has been my experience that people who resort to violence, no matter where it is directed, to deal with emotional strain/frustration/tension, are unpredictable. What comes from that unpredicatbility, is an atmosphere of opressive trepidation that stifles a lot of the best things being in a relationship is about.

The fact that you do so privately and don't make a show of it speaks well that you aren't going to cross the boundary. That said, I have paid a heavy price in the past for misjudgements and once bitten twice shy.

That isn't to say I wouldn't take the risk again with someone, but there would have to be a huge amount of emotional investment on my part to make it worthwhile.

 

[matriarch]

I have never ever hit a person. There have been times, many times, when I've bitten my tongue, sat on my hands and got through it.

To my knowledge, I can't think of a single situation where I would hit a person in anger. Self defence, maybe, or defence of a loved one, most definitely.

But I have had times when not a single saucepan in my kitchen has had a flat bottom. I have smashed wooden spoons and utensils, and even thrown things across the kitchen. Rarely out of anger, more usually out of frustration, and more importantly, the dreaded PMS.

Now? I simply sit down and cry.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Thought this deserved a thread of its own.





What's the opinion of the AH. Would it worry you to have a boyfriend who punches inanimate objects (really quite fiercely) when he's frustrated or angry? Would you feel safe going out with someone who you knew was stronger and had shown serious aggression to inanimate objects?

Discuss.

The Earl

Yes. Hitting inantimate objects is dangerous, scary, violent, destructive, intimidating, and threatening. The hitter is out of control but has fooled himself into thinking he is in control because he doesn't hit a person- but agression has a way of escalating. It doesn't set a good example for the children either. I find it abusive, and it can be manipulative as well. (I'm mad- now I'm hurt- it's all your fault for pissing me off)

I think hitters should find themselves some anger managent help (books therapy or whatever) and learn to deal with there emotions in a more constructive way. I don't buy into the idea that it's ok as long as you don't hit a person, that is just the ego trying to justify itself.

That is my honest and unvarnished oppinion, and I say it out of love. If I found out a man couldn't control his temper eally on in the game- I'd get out before I was even in.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Now? I simply sit down and cry.

It's never worth crying over, Mat. If someone upsets me that much, I tend to smoke illegal substances and plot a very creative revenge

 

[sweetnpetite]

You can never tell when someone will snap. A person who uses violence, even against inanimate objects, to relieve tension in a situation is just a hair's breadth from taking the step to using violence on me. You just never know what the trigger might be to take them across the line and not knowing, you walk on egg shells. that isn't healthy for a relationship, imho.

I second that, entirely. Truer words were never spoken.

 

[matriarch]

It's never worth crying over, Mat. If someone upsets me that much, I tend to smoke illegal substances and plot a very creative revenge

Have to disagree with you, love.

There are plenty of things and people that reduce me to tears. I'm not a vengeful person, and I've never knowingly smoked an illegal substance in my life. I'm quite boring, really.

 

[gauchecritic]

Someone mentioned door-slamming, but everyone does that.

Although that's not true I'd like to point out that door slamming is exactly analogous to wall punching, the release of muscular tension or the sudden outpouring of frustration in a physical way.

A friend of mine from many years ago was a 'right lad' he was regularly involved in brawls and had actually been an amateur boxer in earlier years.

I'm not trying to disprove anyone's ideas about violent behaviour leading to personal violence but there is a curious thing about this lad. He was brought up to never hit girls, whatever the provocation. He never did.

His wife was violent towards him, aggressively and grieviously. Pots and pans, cricket bats, hands, fists and anything that came to hand.

During one memorable arguement his wife threated him with a pair of scissors, which he ignored and which she stabbed into his thigh quite deeply. His upbringing was so ingrained (and possibly as a method of enraging his wife more) he laughed and said something along the lines of "Is that the best you can?" then extracted the scissors and handed them back.

He then bent forward to tie his shoelaces (he was getting ready for work) and she stabbed him in the back with the scissors. Still he would not raise a hand to her but had her remove them, tape up the damage and then went to work.

Not every man who displays violent behaviour is violent towards women.