Age disclaimer

[TxRad]

Actually, such a disclaimer does make a difference. It makes Laurel take and extra look at the story.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

I still put a disclaimer at the top of any story that might have youngish participants. In the body of the story, wherever it might be in question, I also point out that nothing happened between them in high school, or when they still kids. One story of mine was rejected for underage thoughts. Now I'm even careful about how I describe things like the feelings a young stud might have for the neighborhood MILF, at least until he's over 18.

 

[SimonDoom]

The catch though is that where websites are concerned, the prosecution can effectively pick whichever jurisdiction is most censorious.

The two cases I'm aware of (Frank McCoy, and Thomas Arthur aka MrDouble) were both convictions under federal law, specifically 18 USC 1462, which AFAIK applies anywhere in the USA. There are state considerations there: that law depends on "obscenity" and part of the definition of "obscenity" is that the content is prohibited under relevant state law, with another part being violation of "relevant community standards". But the crime is considered to happen in all states involved in the "transportation" of the story, so they can just get somebody to download the stories from whichever jurisdiction is most favourable to conviction.

That's what happened to McCoy. He was resident in Minnesota, and the servers for his sites were in Texas and California, but an FBI agent in Georgia accessed them and McCoy was then tried in Georgia. Text at https://casetext.com/case/us-v-mccoy-75 notes that such offenses can be prosecuted where the materials were received, and rejects an argument that McCoy should be subject to community standards in Minnesota rather than in Georgia.

AFAICT the scarcity of such prosecutions is less to do with jurisdiction and more to do with how the First Amendment has been interpreted to restrict "obscenity". SCOTUS of late has been more than usually flexible on precedents, so it might not be a safe time to assume that the line on obscenity will continue to be drawn where it has been drawn.

As you say, there's no law setting an age-18 rule for text stories. But if one had to defend Literotica against obscenity charges, it might be useful to point to the age limit for video as evidence that stories about people aged 18+ don't violate "community standards". (At least for stories about acts that would be allowed in video.)

As far as I can tell, what you've said about the law in the US is accurate. A key point worth noting with respect to the conversation we're having here, though, is these cases involved stories concerning extreme, violent pedophilia. Those stories are far, far removed from anything anybody is trying to post at Literotica. To the extent stories at Literotica cross the line, or get away with crossing the line, they probably concern high-school age people involved in nonviolent activity. I don't think there's any reason based on precedent to believe these stories would be prosecuted. To the extent authors here are concerned that "my story could be construed to be about somebody aged 17 having sex--have I violated the law?" those concerns almost certainly are without any foundation under US law.

 

[ofbuttons]

Most of us behave as though we are under 18 until we are at least 25!

Definitely, this applies to real life.

In fiction, however, where characters are written in a deliberate way by an author who wants to portray them in service to a story, I think you can kind of tell when a "all characters are 18+" high school story has that age disclaimer as a technicality, and you definitely get the feeling you're reading about 15-year-olds.

I don't really care, it's just amusing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As far as I can tell, what you've said about the law in the US is accurate. A key point worth noting with respect to the conversation we're having here, though, is these cases involved stories concerning extreme, violent pedophilia. Those stories are far, far removed from anything anybody is trying to post at Literotica. To the extent stories at Literotica cross the line, or get away with crossing the line, they probably concern high-school age people involved in nonviolent activity. I don't think there's any reason based on precedent to believe these stories would be prosecuted. To the extent authors here are concerned that "my story could be construed to be about somebody aged 17 having sex--have I violated the law?" those concerns almost certainly are without any foundation under US law.

I agree with this as a reading of the state of the law to date, but I also think we're living in a time where many things that were considered settled precedent might be open for change. (I'd prefer not to go into specifics as that's likely to derail into politics, but several recent court decisions - not just the outcomes, but also the commentary issued with those decisions - have pointed in that direction.)

There's a lot of state-level legislation coming out at the moment on trans- and drag-related matters, some of it draconian enough to make things like "Tootsie" illegal to show to minors, and some of it attempting to set ages of consent higher than 18. If that kind of legislation passes and doesn't get overturned, it may then offer an excuse to claim that "community standards" on related kinds of erotica have shifted, in which case things currently legal might not always remain so.

I don't currently see it as probable that the stuff Literotica hosts would run afoul of obscenity laws (excepting occasional moderation oversights) but I'm not quite as blasé about that as I would have been a couple of years ago.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Most of us behave as though we are under 18 until we are at least 25!

I’m 25 for a few more weeks and am yet to experience this transition.

Em

 

[jaykaythree]

My proposal for a standard age disclaimer:

Danger/warning: This story features young(ish) people who engage in, witness, recall, fantasize about, or are in the physical vicinity of sexual activity. If such stories bother/trigger/upset you or tend to prompt you to report the story to the Site Owner, then please do not read this story.

All characters in this story who engage in, witness, recall, fantasize about, or are within a quarter-mile radius of sexual activity are 18 or over. To the extent that their age is not explicitly stated, then as a condition of reading this story you must assume the character's 18th birthday occurred not less than 24 hours before the activity.

To the extent the character's behavior, circumstances, or level of schooling seem inconsistent, in your opinion, which you admit is subjective and non-authoritative and irrelevant to the story's meaning, with being 18 or over, as a condition of reading this story you are to assume the character has a learning or behavioral disability that caused them to be held back at least one year, or however many years are necessary to ensure that the character is, to your satisfaction, 18 or over.

To the extent any characters in this story are under the age of 18, you are to assume that none of these characters has engaged in, witnessed, recalled, fantasized about or been within a quarter-mile radius of sexual activity of any kind. For these purposes, "sexual activity" is to be interpreted in the broadest possible sense, including but not limited to any activity you personally, or the Site owners, regard as "sexual."

If you proceed further and read the story, it will be assumed that you have read and agreed to all of the foregoing. Proceed at your risk.

Enjoy.

Flesh that out a little bit, and you could have a real banger for the 750-word challenge.

And I'm not being sarcastic or facetious. Hell, I'd even favorite it and vote it five Stars.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I’m 25 for a few more weeks and am yet to experience this transition.

Em

At midnight on your birthday, you will miraculously become an adult and make grown-up decisions, because you'll be nearer thirty than twenty.

You'll be fine, it happens to all of us .

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I’m 25 for a few more weeks and am yet to experience this transition.

Em

Oh, you poor, poor dear! Enjoy life while it lasts.

 

[XerXesXu]

I don't currently see it as probable that the stuff Literotica hosts would run afoul of obscenity laws (excepting occasional moderation oversights) but I'm not quite as blasé about that as I would have been a couple of years ago.

Literotica transmits content to the world. On the Story side it’s a hosting platform that hosts content published by – anyone – and transmits it to anyone, anywhere in the world. On the Forum side, it’s a Social Media platform - again, transmitting from anyone in the world to anyone in the world.

The internet age has coincided with two changes. The first is a contraction in the boundaries of ‘obscenity’. What might have been considered obscene 50 years ago now wouldn’t cause an eyebrow to be raised in many countries. At the same time ‘safeguarding’ has grown into an industry and invaded every aspect of life – the safeguarding of the vulnerable, especially children.

As children, my generation had only the real world to play in. Our mothers kicked us out into the street by mid-morning and told us not to come back before lunch. The same after lunch. We encountered bad people. We swore and threw stones at them, we learned to look after ourselves and each other.

The concept of ‘safeguarding’ would have been an alien concept to any teacher in any school I attended. We were formally beaten, actually assaulted, slapped and pushed by teachers, shouted at, ridiculed, and humiliated in front of others, etc. If we complained to our parents we were told not to misbehave. There were no safe spaces and no trigger warnings at university. Anyone could say what they want, how they wanted, even ad hominem if they did so without resorting to vulgar and common abuse. It would have been bizarre to suggest things should be otherwise.

Now, when left to their own devices, children don’t spend their days in the real world. By five they can operate a smartphone (better than me) and access content anywhere in the world. From then until adulthood, they do. They meet bad people. A troubling number come to harm. It’s in all the papers. Something should be done about it, the public says, the internet ought to be regulated. Politicians respond they prepare legislation.

Those, who think community standards regarding obscenity are now too lax, take advantage. The UK, USA Federal Government, State Governments in the USA, the European Union, the states in the European Union, and just about every jurisdiction in the world have plans to or are in the process of legislating to regulate the internet.

Everywhere in the world, consequences will follow for platforms that fail to safeguard children. Literotica is caught up in this maelstrom. It has a tick-box,18+ access declaration. Any child can tick the box. Is that ‘future-proof’ due diligence? If it doesn’t effectively exclude children from accessing its content, what steps does Lit take to exclude content which could be harmful to those children from being hosted on the platform? Are their acceptability rules sufficient, even with a report button? That’s the lever those who wish to restrict access to sexually explicit material can use, the complaint needn't be that material is obscene. If Literotica doesn’t realistically safeguard children, the consequences may be that it’s blocked, progressively, in jurisdictions around the USA and the world.

The same applies to hate speech, misogyny, etc, name a hobby horse.

To those who think Lit’s content rules are too restrictive, consider this advice from another business that's prospered in adversity for hundreds of years - the Mafia. ‘Why take a chance?’

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>
Those, who think community standards regarding obscenity are now too lax, take advantage. The UK, USA Federal Government, State Governments in the USA, the European Union, the states in the European Union, and just about every jurisdiction in the world have plans to or are in the process of legislating to regulate the internet.

Everywhere in the world, consequences will follow for platforms that fail to safeguard children. Literotica is caught up in this maelstrom. It has a tick-box,18+ access declaration. Any child can tick the box. Is that ‘future-proof’ due diligence? If it doesn’t effectively exclude children from accessing its content, what steps does Lit take to exclude content which could be harmful to those children from being hosted on the platform? Are their acceptability rules sufficient, even with a report button? That’s the lever those who wish to restrict access to sexually explicit material can use, the complaint needn't be that material is obscene. If Literotica doesn’t realistically safeguard children, the consequences may be that it’s blocked, progressively, in jurisdictions around the USA and the world.

The same applies to hate speech, misogyny, etc, name a hobby horse.

To those who think Lit’s content rules are too restrictive, consider this advice from another business that's prospered in adversity for hundreds of years - the Mafia. ‘Why take a chance?’

Louisiana law requiring proof of ID for porn site access has privacy advocates worried

Every January, the new year marks the point when new laws kick in all over the country. In Louisiana, one of those laws is HB 142, which requires users in that state to prove they’re 18 or older before accessing sites that contain pornographic material.

If a website’s content is a least one third porn, you have to show an ID. And the reason that’s legally possible is because Louisiana is one of the few states in the U.S. that allows residents to store government-issued ID digitally on their smartphone. And that’s the ID the state wants people to use if they want to view adult content online.

This new law has many privacy advocates worried, and some researchers are warning about unplanned ripple effects of its implementation. Marketplace’s Kimberly Adams spoke with Jordan Taylor, an internet and social media researcher and PhD student at the Human-Computer Interactive Institute at Carnegie Mellon University.

and

But this kind of brings up this fuzzier issue — it’s not really clear what sites are going to be covered under this law.

If you visit Pornhub from Louisiana, you're redirected to a third-party website and you need to upload your digital license to verify. That's so far the only site that's implemented the new method. The article (and plenty of others) covers risks to your ID, locking people out of internet access, etc.

Sure... use a VPN, other methods, maybe.

It's "all for the children."

And, from that link, again, unclear how deeply the law defines all this. If it's the usual, we won't know until the court cases work their way through.

The law also applies to digital publishers, whose content is 33.3 percent sexually explicit. Publishers who fail to comply can be fined.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Actually, such a disclaimer does make a difference. It makes Laurel take and extra look at the story.

What, on the basis that someone using a disclaimer is possibly more likely to be skirting the line? If so, those who think they're "covering" themselves are doing the complete opposite. More fool them, eh?!

 

[Bramblethorn]

Everywhere in the world, consequences will follow for platforms that fail to safeguard children. Literotica is caught up in this maelstrom. It has a tick-box,18+ access declaration. Any child can tick the box. Is that ‘future-proof’ due diligence? If it doesn’t effectively exclude children from accessing its content, what steps does Lit take to exclude content which could be harmful to those children from being hosted on the platform? Are their acceptability rules sufficient, even with a report button? That’s the lever those who wish to restrict access to sexually explicit material can use, the complaint needn't be that material is obscene. If Literotica doesn’t realistically safeguard children, the consequences may be that it’s blocked, progressively, in jurisdictions around the USA and the world.

Yep, that kind of I Can't Believe It's Not Censorship (aka "chilling effects") is perhaps as much of a threat as directly outlawing certain types of content. How many readers and authors would Literotica lose if people had to sign up with ID and trust that the business/government collecting that info will never leak them or use them for other purposes?

The other kind of risk, fuelled by the same climate, is stochastic terrorism: pick a porn site, denounce them as "groomers", publicise their address, and disclaim all responsibility for what somebody might choose to do next.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Yep, that kind of I Can't Believe It's Not Censorship (aka "chilling effects") is perhaps as much of a threat as directly outlawing certain types of content. How many readers and authors would Literotica lose if people had to sign up with ID and trust that the business/government collecting that info will never leak them or use them for other purposes?

The other kind of risk, fuelled by the same climate, is stochastic terrorism: pick a porn site, denounce them as "groomers", publicise their address, and disclaim all responsibility for what somebody might choose to do next.

Shades of Orwell's 1984. Big Brother is Watching.

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

If you visit Pornhub from Louisiana, you're redirected to a third-party website and you need to upload your digital license to verify. That's so far the only site that's implemented the new method. The article (and plenty of others) covers risks to your ID, locking people out of internet access, etc.

I don’t think the underlying concept behind such a law is bad (mainly because we’ve had some challenges in my family with kids who got exposed too young and ended up going down the Tate/incel rabbithole as a result). However, there are definitely better ways to go about keeping kids safe online, and I don’t think Literorica poses the same challenge as video porn.

A young person’s first encounter with pornography or psuedo-pornographic content is far more likely to occur through social media. Add to that, sex education in English-speaking countries tends to be poor and this stuff can spread between classmates (in our family’s case, the parents found their boy had joined a chat group where they mixed sharing porn with some truly vile mysoginistic talk about girls). Finally, we’ve got the dubious ethics of 'free' (often stolen) pornography and the dodgy business practices of Pornhub and their parent company (and, to an extent, OnlyFans)... Better regulation is definitely required but it would be politically unpopular whichever way you look at it.

One of the reasons I add a little "this is not real-life" disclaimer to the top of stories is because I know there’ll inevitably be some readers who aren’t mature enough to distinguish between fantasy and reality. The age disclaimer also helps communicate the story that follows is something about adults, written by adults, for adult consumers. That’s not to say disclaimers have any effect, but I do think they make sense as a means of contextualising the content.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I’m 25 for a few more weeks and am yet to experience this transition.

Em

Well, sweety, I did say 'most of us' and 'at least 25.' Perfectly fine if it takes longer. I find it charming when there's a man or woman child around.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Well, sweety, I did say 'most of us' and 'at least 25.' Perfectly fine if it takes longer. I find it charming when there's a man or woman child around.

That’s me .

Em