Advice on 'Sir'

[Kuran208]

Let me start off by saying that yes, this is my first post, and while i've thought about joining this site for a while, it was the coming question and the fact that this seems to be a very open community that persuaded me to do this. Also, this seems like the place i'd go to ask for what I suppose amounts to advice, or at the very least clarification.

I'm male, 21. While i'm not the most sexually active of people, I can be described as a more dominant type, though like everyone I'd imagine, I switch from time to time. My girlfriend of a few months is very sub in bed, and a little less so the rest of the time. Neither of us are heavy on BDSM as a rule, we're just very....kinky.

The other big thing with us is that it's long distance currently. We met online playing a game, and after a while connected, started getting to know each other, and as they say, the rest is history.

Well, shortly after meeting her, we were talking about pets. I told her a story about a dog i'd had once that kept trying to get out of it's collar, and she kind of blurts out "Yeah, if anyone wanted to collar me, they'd have to meet the approval of sir."

Screeeech. Brakes.

"Sir?" I asked, this being the first time i've heard anything about this. She explains the following. (i'll point out that i've little actual interest in collaring her, it just was the catalyst for this) After her marriage ended five years ago (She's a few years older than I am) she met this guy at a convention, Dragon Con I think. Yes, we're that nerdy. She says that they discovered that she was submissive and that he was dominant, and that they've stayed in contact ever since at that convention, when she was having a bit of a temper tantrum he threatened to strip her naked and march her through the streets.

It was never sexual, however. She says that anyway, and I do actually trust her on this. She never touched him, and he never let her. When I asked further, it transpires that he lives in another state entirely, well removed from her, and they merely talk to each other from time to time these days. A recent example being she was having some trouble with a personal matter, and while I was able to help her quite a lot, she called him as well.

Now, I guess my concern here is that I don't know enough about the way that the whole "sir" thing works. When I told her that I wasn't really comfortable with her running to another guy, or anyone for that matter, and having him tell her what to do, how to handle her life, she said that she disobeyed him before, that she could if she wants to, and that I shouldn't worry, it would all be fine.

Quite.

It's difficult for me not to see this as a sexual thing, because the whole d/s thing inherently has a sexual aspect. But i'll be the first to admit, I know very little about all of it. I'm open minded, for the record, it's just not something that appeals to me particularly. But anyway. It's not that I want to control her, i'm much more even in that regard, though she has said that she prefers to be told what to do over having to make choices of her own. This I know stems from some self esteem problems, which we're working on as well.

It's not terribly frequent, she's only talked to him three or four times in the past two months I think. But the fact that she's got this dominant force in her life that, to put it bluntly, isn't me, her boyfriend, makes me highly uncomfortable, though perhaps that's because I lack knowledge on what exactly this kind of thing entails. Again, I'm not looking to be all "Rawr, you are mine, do what I say or else" because that's not me. But at the same time, I certainly don't want someone else in between our relationship for, well, any reason, but certainly not that.

It's to the point that whenever I hear about this guy, I get a feeling of unwellness in my stomach, and inevitably it ruins most of the day because I know she's talking to this guy, and I don't know what it's all about. I love her, we are very much in love with each other, I just...it hurts to think about what might happen in the future, especially if she wants to see him again.

I'm sure that this rant has made no sense at all, but any help, advice, or sharing of knowledge would be appreciated beyond belief. Also, apologies if this is posted in the wrong place(it seemed right, the whole thing is a bit bdsm'y), or if this breaks the rules (which I did read) in some way.

 

[LittleSparks]

Hey Kuran. I'm new to the forum as well, but this seems like exactly the place to pose such a question.

From what I can see, the bottom line here is that you are supremely uncomfortable with her having this other "dominant force" in her life, as you well put it. Unless you sit down with your girlfriend and make her aware of your discomfort, you will only keep struggling silently with this issue each time she brings it up. It sounds to me like you may not even fully understand the relationship she has with this man, and what influence he has on her. So just to start with, you need to ask your girlfriend very nicely but bluntly what this man provides that she feels she cannot get solely from her relationship with you. It's certainly the case in the BDSM world that people in a committed relationship might seek out a dom or sub with their significant others approval. However, it does not sound like you approve of or fully understand this arrangement. Talking with your gf more specifically about it might help you understand and come to a conclusion about the whole situation.

Some things you could ask yourself in the process..

After speaking with your gf and comprehending the issue to the best of your ability, Are you comfortable with her having this man in her life?

If you are still uncomfortable with it, do you feel you can and want to replace this other man's role? If not, is your gf willing to accept other forms of gratification for her submissiveness (provided only by you)?

Finally, is it too much to comprehend or accept?

If you are unable to accept the situation or work with your gf to change it for the better, then that would be the time to consider letting each other go. BDSM in not necessarily sexual all the time, but having the influence of another dominant male in your relationship can certainly make things very complicated.

 

[Kuran208]

Thank you, both of you, for replying. Both have been very informative and helpful.

Thank you for sharing Kuran.

To me this smacks of cuckholdery, which is a very particular fetish, and otherwise a concept that leaves most feeling "unwell."

If it's true that you're not particularly interested in D/s, but that she seems to be, this kind of sharing is something you might just have to wrap your brain around, and perhaps following up and actually talking to this person might be beneficial to you. At least you could measure for yourself whether or not you sense competition or chemistry.

I don't know if I would say that i'm not interested in D/s. In bed. Or even in day to day life, for that matter. What i'm against is having a relationship where there is a vast...I guess authority...distance between two people. Maybe it's not even strictly d/s as opposed to...

She says she dislikes having to make choices. The example that springs to mind came up the other day where she said that nine times out of ten, if asked "What would you like for dinner?" She would respond with "I don't know." I know that a lot of that stems from self esteem issues, and she admits that she is trying to work on that, which we've actually been working on for a while.

I've considered asking for this guy's details to shoot him an email. The thing that's stopped me is wondering if that's a boundary that's taboo, moreso than all of this is to begin with.


It's after 4am, that's my excuse if this makes no sense.

 

[leighannste17]

It seems like he's taking advantage of her level of experience. She has low self esteem, and she's probably like I was when I was a bit younger. Submissive is my personality, but when I developed self-esteem for myself. I realized i'd make a much better female dom, then I would a sub. In reality, I love myself and I always know were I want to eat, and what I want in life.

Even if I wanted to be a sub, I would never go into that type of relationship unless I was able to communicate and set boundries. It seems like she's not as ready for it, as she thinks, because if she was she wouldn't doubt herself at all.

It seems like she hasn't been very open with you. And she needs to really work on herself. Alot of girls with low-self esteem don't realize that BDSM takes alot of studying and growing up. Subs and Doms study what they do, they try things and they both love and respect one another.

This guy does not respect her at all. And I understand why your so upset. You need to sit down and have a long talk with her about her choices. And if she won't stop what she's doing, then maybe the best thing to do is leave her with this guy, because as an adult she needs to learn from her own mistakes.

 

[ecstaticsub]

First off I have to say being submissive or even not wanting to make decisions does NOT necessarily have anything to do with self-esteem issues. I have a very healthy self-esteem and I have no problem being decisive at work, with my children etc. But when I am with my Dominant the only decision I want to be able to make is whether I will obey him or not. If it is not...then I know my relationship with him is over. I want to obey, I want him to make the decisions.

Now...on to the bigger question of what to do about this dominant in your gf's life. You say your relationship is long distance and you are in love. Have you started making plans to move closer to each other? How long have you known each other? Is your relationship exclusive?

I ask these questions not expecting an answer but more for you to ask yourself. I can't say for sure but I'll be willing to bet as you become more important in her life as your relationship grows the less important her dominant may be. He may have helped her through a very rough time when she could no longer trust her instincts. As she gets more confident her dependence on him may diminish.

Or not. I am guessing there will come a point where you want to do something with her (vanilla or kinky) and the dominant disapproves of it. Whether she chooses to obey him or to do what you want...or to make it known what her own opinion is separate from him will tell you where you stand in the relationship. You can then make your choice of whether to stay or go.

 

[leighannste17]

Let me explain my depth a bit more, when I say, "He's taking advantage of it."

This guy knows, or maybe doesn't even know that she's in a relationship. Which isn't very healthy in the first place, because her boyfriend is uncomfortable with it. Either way this relationship isn't healthy. It seems like this girl has a problem.

You really need to talk to her about this situation. Maybe she has a hidden desire that you don't understand. And if you don't like it, then maybe she's not the girl for you. BDSM is something you really gotta study. I don't have alot of experience in it either but I question female Subs. Sometimes I wonder which ones simply have a desire and which ones were abused while younger, etc..

Some have self-esteem issues, and some just love to give up control in the bedroom. Which is okay, nothing wrong with that, but at the same time, for me I gotta have control. I'd be to scared to lay there in ropes for some guy. I've seen the way the world is and some of the crazy shit men pull and i'm much more soft when it comes to being kinky.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It might not have anything at all to do with sex, and everything to do with safety.

It might be more like "anyone who wants to marry me has to talk to my father."

 

[Kuran208]

It might not have anything at all to do with sex, and everything to do with safety.

It might be more like "anyone who wants to marry me has to talk to my father."

This was actually my first thought. That before she explained it, she might have had a highly controlling father.

Thank you for the replies, it's certainly helped. Next time it comes up then i'll have to have this talk with her.

Now...on to the bigger question of what to do about this dominant in your gf's life. You say your relationship is long distance and you are in love. Have you started making plans to move closer to each other? How long have you known each other? Is your relationship exclusive?

Yes, a while, and yes, respectively. One of the things I made very clear from the start is that I don't do sharing, to put it bluntly. We had a talk about monogamy, and she agreed completely with me that we we're exclusive. Which in a way makes all of this just a bit more confusing.

I also didn't intend to imply that being submissive always means that the sub has self esteem issues. I happen to know that she does have them, and from her background, I believe that they're tied in. I certainly wasn't trying to generalize, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

 

[Velvet Bubbles]

Your first post is one of the "best" I believe I've seen to date! Congratulations. Your head seems to be screwed on pretty straight.

I'll just ditto what they all said, really. You have to TALK, rather bluntly (but TACTFULLY) about what you want and how things make you feel. This may take some soul-searching before you initiate the conversation and you may realize things DURING said conversation(s) too. Be open, be honest.

You sound pretty cool so far and I wish you the best. Sorry I don't have better advice.

 

[marieR19]

Agree with everyone else, but feel the need to add something:

She wasn't honest with you. I won't pretend to know the details of your emotional connection with her, but the fact that your "girlfriend" had, and continues to have, a "Sir" without telling you from the beginning.... that's a big red flag for me. Why did she wait until *that* conversation to mention him? The way she said it sounds like it was flippant, it's not a huge secret or whatever, so why didn't she tell you when you started dating? Because, at least imo, "oh hey, btw, I have a 'Sir' who you have to get approval from" after being in this relationship for a few months, that just doesn't seem right.

 

[Rother]

She may not be sexual with this man, but she has some sort of emotional connection with him, on whatever level that might be.

I think if you strip back the D/s issues from your post, you can see what is left - your girlfriend (to whom you have made it clear you are not interested in sharing) has some sort of relationship with another man. She is sharing something with him (possibly that you feel she should be sharing with you).

Whether you want to explore that side of her sexual personality more is up to you, but first you need to decide whether you want to share her or not. If you don't want to, you need to tell her that this relationship she has with this man is not acceptable to you.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's not terribly frequent, she's only talked to him three or four times in the past two months I think. But the fact that she's got this dominant force in her life that, to put it bluntly, isn't me, her boyfriend, makes me highly uncomfortable, though perhaps that's because I lack knowledge on what exactly this kind of thing entails.

Vague non-helpful answer: "it depends". Every relationship is different, and especially with D&S/poly in the mix, there's no 'standard model' to refer to. So you're going to need to talk to her (and maybe to him) to find out how it works for them, and listen to yourself on whether that's something you can work with.

That said, a few comments...

- The fact that it's a D&S sort of relationship doesn't necessarily mean all other relationships are going to be relegated to second place. There's a popular image of the Domly Dom who controls all aspects of Subly Sub's life, but IME that tends to be the exception more than the rule.

- One of the pitfalls of non-standard relationships is not having standard expectations. In a vanilla monogamous relationship there'd be an expectation that you tell somebody "BTW I already have a boyfriend" early on. If this is a non-sexual D&S sort of thing, she may not have been sure whether she needed to tell you about somebody she isn't sleeping with and only contacts a few times a month. IMHO it would have been a good idea for her to disclose that early, but better late than never.

- IME, poly relationships work best when everybody is on cordial terms with their partner's partners. Especially in LDRs, it makes things work a lot more smoothly. (I got rather insecure when my long-distance girlfriend found a lover who lives much closer to her; I'd been burnt before in a similar situation. Eventually I bit the bullet, made contact with her lover, and found they were lovely. These days we conspire behind the scenes to organise things like birthday presents.)

 

[njlauren]

Kuran-

Bramblethorn gave a really good response. In effect what you would be facing with your GF is a kind of poly relationship, that involves you, her and her 'sir'. I am not poly, but from what I know of any kind of relationship like this, there needs to be communications and boundaries, and it requires up front, honest communication. You GF failed that test by not telling you, but it may not be a deal breaker.

Stella could be correct, she is pretty wise, and maybe this 'sir' has acted as a kind of mentor and safety net to you, if she was divorced, it could be she was hurt, and he provided some emotional security for her, it would make sense. D/s relationships of all kinds, sexual and non, can often be in the role of a controlling dom/me who is kind of like the strict parent figure/mentor/whatever who gives guidance and support.

Okay, so what do I advise? I think you have every right to ask your girlfriend about her relationship and also have the right to talk to her 'sir' about how this plays out (if 'sir' has any sense of relationships, assuming he knows about you, he should be able to understand why you are concerned). This relationship could very well be non sexual, I have heard of couples where, for example, one of the spouses is a service sub/slave to another person or couple, but there is no sex in that. I can understand your feelings, given this is an LDS, when so much time is spent apart.

Thing is, this is a relationship with another man, it is an emotional one, and as discussions about cheating often talk about, there is such thing as emotional cheating, where the outside person is taking away from the relationship space of the couple, where the spouse with the outside relationship is sharing intimacies, etc...In your case, it is natural to feel/wonder if their relationship is taking away from yours, if she is reserving stuff for him that she isn't for you. For example, one of the things in any couple/relationship is people tend to rely on each other, knowing, for example, when you are feeling like shit, if there is an issue, you can share these with your partner...but what if she is sharing this stuff with him and not with you? What if he is giving her advice/making decisions that could affect you two if she accepts them (or feels she has to), without you even knowing? Again, has nothing to do with sex per se, though it could (just to be out there, what if he told her she really is a lesbian in his opinion, and should be having sex only with women? ....). Not knowing sucks, and while partners have all kinds of relationships outside their own one, this is different, this is someone she acknowledges has special meaning to her, special power, and you have every right to know what goes on, including the right to talk to this guy and get to know him, what he is about. Like I said, if he isn't some pompous jerk, he should understand your concerns, and if he is anything like the "sirs" I have known, he will be pretty upset if he finds out she didn't tell you about him.

The first step is definitely talking to her about him, your concerns, and also tell her to let 'sir' know that you want to get in touch with him, to find out what they are about (she and sir), and also to make sure there are no misunderstandings either way. If he cares for her, which he probably does, it will let him get to know you and see that she is okay, and it also will give you piece of mind he isn't some ogre out to fuck with your relationship. One other thing I would put in the table, if faced with this, would I would ask sir that if your gf and you had issues, that he basically tell her she needs to talk to you about them, rather then letting her simply take it to him to decide. It is one thing to give advice, as I am here, it is very different when it is not a disinterested party, but rather is someone with a real relationship as he does...it would be to me like in a a poly with one person being in a relationship with two people, where they aren't in a relationship with each other, and telling person two about a battle this person is having with person 1 and expecting them to step in... You need communication, you need the piece of mind of knowing what is going on and also that sir understands your boundaries, because you hopefully will work them out. Once GF started a relationship with you, her relationship with sir is perfectly your business.

 

[Rother]

All sorts of relationship set ups work for all kinds of people. But they all have to agree. You don't have to worry about whether its right, or usual, it's about what works for you. What matters is what you are comfortable with in the relationship that you want to have. The advice here is good, talk to her.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm with Stella on this one. It sounds to me like "sir" makes her feel more secure by being controlling - like a big brother or father figure. I didn't get the impression that this was poly or cuckoldry or anything other than "I feel more comfortable when someone else is in control."

It sounds to me like you're discovering your own jealousy, though; and one thing to consider is that she's asking you to take over the role of "controlling influence." Is that what you want? And what will your own parameters be?

 

[Kuran208]

Well. *ponders*

After a discussion, it's been made clear that he's not sexual in any way shape or form. That he is just a friend now, and that if we (her and I) were to the point where we were talking about rings(wedding) and collars (I gather they're about the same level of importance...?) then it wouldn't be an issue.

The most...telling...thing, is that she says that, essentially, she wants me to have that role. To use her words, "I don't need to run to (insert name here) anymore, to ask him to help me make it all better. I can run to you to ask for help to make it all better."

So...I think this is more or less resolved...a new door has been opened...which requires a huge chunk of trust....and we trust each other. And it's also been made clear that she's looking for a D/s relationship....with us. So....yeah...


Thank you everyone for all of your replies, it helped far more than I could ever have hoped for. Njlauren gets a special thanks, as her talking about what happens when she goes to him was a bit plagiarized during our conversation, and helped clarify things quite a bit.

Now then...*flips though yellow "D/s for dummies" book*

 

[Stella_Omega]

This was actually my first thought. That before she explained it, she might have had a highly controlling father.

Thank you for the replies, it's certainly helped. Next time it comes up then i'll have to have this talk with her.



Yes, a while, and yes, respectively. One of the things I made very clear from the start is that I don't do sharing, to put it bluntly. We had a talk about monogamy, and she agreed completely with me that we we're exclusive. Which in a way makes all of this just a bit more confusing.

I also didn't intend to imply that being submissive always means that the sub has self esteem issues. I happen to know that she does have them, and from her background, I believe that they're tied in. I certainly wasn't trying to generalize, and I apologize if it seemed that way.

What I am saying is; consider this man to be her father.

He is NOT competing with you. He has nothing to do with you. her relationship with him has nothing to do with you and her.

She will NOT be completely happy without his friendship-- until she is ready to give it up. Let that be on her time schedule, not on yours.

Honor her needs.

Otherwise, you're just another control freak who found himself a little lady with self esteem issues to exploit.

 

[njlauren]

What I am saying is; consider this man to be her father.

He is NOT competing with you. He has nothing to do with you. her relationship with him has nothing to do with you and her.

She will NOT be completely happy without his friendship-- until she is ready to give it up. Let that be on her time schedule, not on yours.

Honor her needs.

Otherwise, you're just another control freak who found himself a little lady with self esteem issues to exploit.

Stella, you can't say that he is just her father and expect the poster to respect that. It seems like she is looking to have the OP become her D, but leaving that aside, even in a vanilla relationship someone like this guy would be problematic and it is the OP's business. There are bounds in a relaltionship, and this sir is not just s friend, it is someone she obvious confides in, who has some special power over her. I can understand you saying he is like a father to her, but the reality is he may be like a father, but there is a lot different dynamic there, and you cannot expect someone in a relationship with her not to be concerned. It has nothing to do with sex, and everything to do with intimacy and emotional sharing. I would be worried if I was in this situation of her going to this guy for advice when she runs into issues, issues that affected me as her partner, and not knowing what he was telling her or knowing anything at all about it. It is like being in a relationship, and finding out your spouse has a friend or a coworker whom they are telling all these things about your relationship to, all the things that should be between the two people. Once you commit to someone, there are certain things that should stay in the relationship, and with someone like this sir, without knowing, a spouse has the right to be concerned, because it affects their relationship.

With real parents there are limits, a husband or wife who constantly talked about the issues in their marriage or relationship with their parents, divulged all the things that go on, would be equally as guilty of breaching that wall, and at least with a father or mother, they would know them and what they were like, this guy was pretty much a cipher, the OP would have no way of knowing what boundaries his SO had with this 'sir', and he has a right to know the nature of their relationship and how it could interfere with his own. Yes, it could be 'sir' is only looking out for her, making sure she doesn't end up foolishly getting collared to the wrong person (hence the sir needs to give permission for her to be collared), I was careful to see he probably cares about her and wants to make sure she is okay, that is commendable, but likewise, the OP has the right to know the nature of their relationship and to feel comfortable with it, given the fact that it could be potentially a negative in their relationship.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You might be right, Lauren. I might be right. Neither of us might be right.

But if you think that "real parents" are automatically less suspect than chosen ones, I commend you on a miraculously halcyon childhood.

I am not a big fan of insularity. I don't think humans actually work real well in tightly nuclear relationships, and that the kind of folk who insist on living that way are usually going to end up with their lives suddenly blowing up around their heads. That's just me.

 

[BiBunny]

To use her words, "I don't need to run to (insert name here) anymore, to ask him to help me make it all better. I can run to you to ask for help to make it all better."

Exactly how old is this person? I know you said you're 21, and she's a few years older. The reason I ask is that the quoted bit above makes me think that "Sir" is going to be the least of your problems.

 

[welkin]

"he threatened to strip her naked and march her through the streets."

Just saying, that is definitively NOT something a "father figure" would do.

 

[eastern sun]

"he threatened to strip her naked and march her through the streets."

Just saying, that is definitively NOT something a "father figure" would do.

Depends on the father. (It was just a threat.)

Anyway. . . given the number of threads in this forum that ask "how do I tell my bf/gf about my desires for a D/s relationship," I thought I'd point out that this was one successful way of introducing the concept into a new relationship. And it started with a casual conversation about a dog that didn't want to be collared.

 

[njlauren]

You might be right, Lauren. I might be right. Neither of us might be right.

But if you think that "real parents" are automatically less suspect than chosen ones, I commend you on a miraculously halcyon childhood.

I am not a big fan of insularity. I don't think humans actually work real well in tightly nuclear relationships, and that the kind of folk who insist on living that way are usually going to end up with their lives suddenly blowing up around their heads. That's just me.

I didn't say real parents were less suspect then chosen ones, I specifically said that "real parents' can be problematic too, and why . Having spent 7 years in therapy, a lot of it over my own parents and their role in my life, and seeing the damage it caused my sweetie with her own fucked up parents, I would never say they are better or worse, my point is, that in a relationship there have to be boundaries. Everyone has confidants, we talk to friends, we have people we run things by, living 'insular' doesn't work, I won't disagree. But if the SO has this 'sir' who obviously has some real authority over her (a friend who told you to run naked through the streets would get laughed at; sounds like the SO would do it), it is a very, very different thing, if they have some sort of D/s dynamic, then she is getting direction from outside the relationship that could hurt them. It is no different then with a couple where a spouse goes outside to fulfill the BD/SM desires, the vanilla spouse has the right to know the nature of the relationship and set bounds, or at the least bit, know what he is up against.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Umph.
let me stop with the ellipticals and aphorisms here..

What I meant was; "you've got to talk to Sir before you can collar me" can very possibly mean that Sir, in his desire to protect this young, submissive woman from predators and shitty doms, has told her that she can not throw herself into a collared relationship unless Sir feels that guy is trustworthy.

If the conversation give Sir confidence in the guy, he might willingly relinquish subbie into another man's care.

If she has self esteem issues, and if I were in any sort of a dominant position with her, I probably would want to do that for her.

 

[Kuran208]

*fires gun in the air* No fighting...please.


It was explained to me like this last night. She is someone who when the world gets to be a bit much, she needs someone to go to for safety, security, and comfort. After her divorce (which was quite nasty, from what I can tell) that became this guy, who provided those things, albeit from a distance. Now, that's me who provides her with those things, and so this other guy is just another friend.

I can certainly understand that taking that at face value takes a fair bit of trust, but I find that I do trust her. We spent most of the night (until 4:30 in the morning) discussing pretty much every aspect of the whole D/s relationship that we could think of (Mostly I was asking questions...) and it became rather clear what she was after, what she needed.

Now I need to do some reading....she's after a D/s aspect, both in bed and sometimes in the rest of our lives. Not 24/7, but when she's feeling particularly "subby" as she says.