Adultery in the Military

[Carnal_Flower]

Any insight from the professionals?

I guess it's a crime (?) in the Military Code (?) although not necessarily.

Is it a common thing, is it frowned upon, is it not a big deal . . .?

Is it something that "everybody does" and people just look the other way or is it a serious offense and no one does it.

What about for Officers, say, a General cheating on his wife.

Would love some insight. Thanks!

 

[Weird Harold]

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/adultery-in-the-military-3354158

 

[KeithD]

I went to the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle Barracks, PA, which is a finishing school for colonels being groomed to become generals. (I didn't go there as military but as the level of officials in other government offices they would have to work with if they became generals). I don't know what the regulations or situation are now--I went there thirty years ago--but there was an assembly in which they were told in no uncertain terms that they wouldn't be competitive for general if they were caught in adultery and they couldn't count on keeping their rank if they committed adultery with an officer of equal or greater rank or to stay in the military at all if they were caught messing around with a subordinate.

That said, I've been attached to Air Force bases both in the States and abroad, where the practice was rampant. At Offutt, I had to help put a colleague on a plane back to Washington because the commanding general of the base wouldn't stop hitting on her--and he kept his job.

 

[ruddygore]

Depends on the situation and the commander. Mosty it comes down to how it affects the units of the people involved, and how hard ass the commander wants to be.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Interesting. Would it matter if it wasn't someone also in the military?

Basically, this guy, the General, would certainly not flaunt the fact that he's having an affair. I wanted him to say something like he "knew he had to be very careful," but I didn't know if that was necessary.

I went to the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle Barracks, PA, which is a finishing school for colonels being groomed to become generals. (I didn't go there as military but as the level of officials in other government offices they would have to work with if they became generals). I don't know what the regulations or situation are now--I went there thirty years ago--but there was an assembly in which they were told in no uncertain terms that they wouldn't be competitive for general if they were caught in adultery and they couldn't count on keeping their rank if they committed adultery with an officer of equal or greater rank or to stay in the military at all if they were caught messing around with a subordinate.

That said, I've been attached to Air Force bases both in the States and abroad, where the practice was rampant. At Offutt, I had to help put a colleague on a plane back to Washington because the commanding general of the base wouldn't stop hitting on her--and he kept his job.

 

[KeithD]

Interesting. Would it matter if it wasn't someone also in the military?

Basically, this guy, the General, would certainly not flaunt the fact that he's having an affair. I wanted him to say something like he "knew he had to be very careful," but I didn't know if that was necessary.

I don't get the impression that the other departments of government pay much attention to this as long as it doesn't connect with sexual harassment cases. In my own, excepted service (intelligence), organization, it was musical beds. Whenever we moved to a new assignment, we had to review who was with who since the last time we'd been with that group. The most extreme case I saw was a bureau we had in Latin America, where everyone traded off, including the bureau chief dumping his wife and going with his local-national secretary, and although everyone got reassigned because the infighting was affecting the work production, the bureau chief was promoted to super grade anyway.

 

[coachdb18pointfive]

Air force fighter squadrons have deployments on a fairly routine basis, and it used to amuse me how many minutes it took once the husbands were airborne on their next TDY until the wives were headed to the bedrooms of the jocks staying behind. And on the other end when I was with the deployed units, how many minutes it took for the jocks to find their long distance romances reignited... There's a lot of fucking around....

Same shit goes around in civilian life, it's all the same people when you get right down to it.

 

[oggbashan]

Rudyard Kipling wrote about it in the 19th Century.

Life on military bases can be boring for the wives.

 

[Jada59]

My ex was in the military. Let me tell you, every time that ship went out to sea, the women found other guys. It was rampant. I never did it but countless others did. No clue about the guys in the military.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Any insight from the professionals?

I guess it's a crime (?) in the Military Code (?) although not necessarily.

Is it a common thing, is it frowned upon, is it not a big deal . . .?

Is it something that "everybody does" and people just look the other way or is it a serious offense and no one does it.

What about for Officers, say, a General cheating on his wife.

Would love some insight. Thanks!

30% of US military commanders fired in the last 8 years were terminated because of sexual misconduct. Look up Brig Gen Jeffrey Sinclair - good example.

 

[Jada59]

Rudyard Kipling wrote about it in the 19th Century.

Life on military bases can be boring for the wives.

That's why I took to writing.


DISJUNCTION

Vacuity pervades the confines
Of wood and windowpane.
It seeps through the chattels
And infiltrates my soul
Like some phantom shadow
That haunts the daylight hours
And prowls the dusky twilight.
I gaze longingly at the calendar.
Each day is the grain of sand
That sifts its way to the depths
Of a tremendous hourglass.
Salt air scented breeze pricks
My nostrils, fills my memory;
Visions of sand and whitecaps
And a lonely ship upon the sea.
As I look toward the firmament,
Sterling spangles come into view;
Winking from the damson backdrop.
A soundless sign of our devotion
Must suffice, till we unite again.

And...

THE BOONIES

My neon is the firefly
That flits from tree to tree.
My friends all live in nests
Or dens upon the lea.
My music is the crickets
That chirp a merry tune.
The duskiness of nightfall
Is lit by stars and moon.
The market here is dismal;
No variety abounds.
I can’t buy fresh cilantro
Or dry salami rounds.
My job here is quite paltry,
But it’s all that I could find.
I often muse and cogitate
Of the things I left behind.
My other half is on a ship
That takes him out to sea,
And exotic ports of call
Where I know I’ll never be.
Three years just seem forever,
But forever I will stay,
In this ancient big white house
On the east coast by the bay.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Ok that's fascinating:

A disgraced Army general who admitted carrying on a prolonged, turbulent affair with an officer under his direct command and having improper relationships with two other women was reprimanded and fined $20,000 by a military judge Thursday. To his visible relief, however, Brig. Gen. Jeffrey A. Sinclair was spared a jail sentence.

That's some serious shit. I think I found my inspiration!

Basically I wanted the General to know he's doing something really bad that could seriously threaten his career but I didn't know if that actually happens.

It's like these guys are elected officials, plus the whole thing about dishonor. Very helpful!

30% of US military commanders fired in the last 8 years were terminated because of sexual misconduct. Look up Brig Gen Jeffrey Sinclair - good example.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

There's a curiously Victorian element to some nation's concepts of martial propriety. I personally don't care provided it's consensual and doesn't harm their command. I don't want 'proper' soldiers; I want victorious soldiers.

A more practical soldier's opinion: A soldier who won't fuck won't fight. Gen Phil Sheridan.

 

[JJonah]

Depends on the situation and the commander. Mosty it comes down to how it affects the units of the people involved, and how hard ass the commander wants to be.

Entirely this.

It’s used when a soldier’s sexual habits affect the unit negatively. Typically an Article 15 or, in very extreme cases, an early separation.

My first day as a platoon leader, we had a kid get moved in from another platoon because he’d been having a threesome. With his squad leader’s wife. The threesome wasn’t the reason he got punished; the fact that it involved his boss was.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Entirely this.

It’s used when a soldier’s sexual habits affect the unit negatively. Typically an Article 15 or, in very extreme cases, an early separation.

My first day as a platoon leader, we had a kid get moved in from another platoon because he’d been having a threesome. With his squad leader’s wife. The threesome wasn’t the reason he got punished; the fact that it involved his boss was.

That sounds less like "punishment" and more like "saving him from potentially fatal consequences", TBH. Pissing off somebody who has direct command over you in life-or-death situations sounds... unwise.

 

[MREDME2]

Any insight from the professionals?

I guess it's a crime (?) in the Military Code (?) although not necessarily.

Is it a common thing, is it frowned upon, is it not a big deal . . .?

Is it something that "everybody does" and people just look the other way or is it a serious offense and no one does it.

What about for Officers, say, a General cheating on his wife.

Would love some insight. Thanks!

So much has changed since my years in the military; yet remains the same.

I haven't read the thread.

What would you like to know?

It's difficult to pin down specifics.

I can give you a brief run down from the Navy pov. It's all pretty much the same regardless of which branch.

 

[JJonah]

That sounds less like "punishment" and more like "saving him from potentially fatal consequences", TBH. Pissing off somebody who has direct command over you in life-or-death situations sounds... unwise.

No.

You’re not wrong in a way, but this was not life or death. This was the pre-9/11 infantry. It was ALL about good order and discipline in garrison, where soldiers spend LOTS of time being bored.

I’ll bet it wouldn’t have affected them in combat. At all.

Remember, it’s a HUGE military. The majority haven’t deployed anywhere, nor will they ever. And even if they do, the number who come under direct fire is minuscule compared to the total number of soldiers. Regulations like these are meant for soldiers like that.

Bored ones.

As for generals? GEN Petraeus got in trouble not so much for adultery, but for the classified pillow talk that went along with it. The adultery reg just made prosecution easier.

 

[LexxRuthless]

Adultery is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but where and with whom makes a huge difference. In South Korea, for example, adultery is also illegal and can carry a prison sentence. Adultery with a foreign national is considered particularly dangerous due to the potential security risks. On the flip side, a common refrain in the Navy is, "You go to sea for six months, and you come home to find your wife exactly how you left her: freshly fucked."
So, for spouses of active duty personnel, adultery is not considered such a big deal.

 

[Weird Harold]

Adultery is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, ...

No it's not. Read the link I posted in the second post of this thread.

That was actually a surprise to me after 21 years USAF service, but "Adultery" is not mentioned in the UCMJ and anecdotal charges of "Adultery" are actually "Conduct Unbecoming" and "Actions Prejudicial to Good Order."


That doesn't mean that adultery can't and won't be punished if the participants aren't discreet. It also doesn't preclude prosecution for violations of federal law on a federal installation, and military bases are subject to federal law for all residents as well as the UCMJ for uniformed members.

 

[Handley_Page]

No it's not. Read the link I posted in the second post of this thread.

That was actually a surprise to me after 21 years USAF service, but "Adultery" is not mentioned in the UCMJ and anecdotal charges of "Adultery" are actually "Conduct Unbecoming" and "Actions Prejudicial to Good Order."


That doesn't mean that adultery can't and won't be punished if the participants aren't discreet. It also doesn't preclude prosecution for violations of federal law on a federal installation, and military bases are subject to federal law for all residents as well as the UCMJ for uniformed members.

We have the same sort of thing over in the UK.
"Conduct unbecoming" might be an [old] part of it.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

My story is about a General who starts having a torrid affair with a woman not in the military. He is popular, and everyone knows his wife and his family. He's known as a particularly honest and upright guy.

I just wanted a bit of background, like what would happen if his colleagues found out. Would they care? Would it be no big deal? Or would it be a serious infraction that he could get in a lot of trouble for? How much does the military care what high ranking officers do in their private life?

Personally I would guess it's like anywhere else--lots of cheating going on, but they look the other way. As long as it doesn't affect your job or become public knowledge, you can basically do what you want. I would also guess it's something a fellow officer could use against you or threaten you with if they were out to get you.

I guess I'm asking specifically about guys in high leadership positions.

So much has changed since my years in the military; yet remains the same.

I haven't read the thread.

What would you like to know?

It's difficult to pin down specifics.

I can give you a brief run down from the Navy pov. It's all pretty much the same regardless of which branch.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I just wanted a bit of background, like what would happen if his colleagues found out. Would they care? Would it be no big deal? Or would it be a serious infraction that he could get in a lot of trouble for? How much does the military care what high ranking officers do in their private life?

Personally I would guess it's like anywhere else--lots of cheating going on, but they look the other way. As long as it doesn't affect your job or become public knowledge, you can basically do what you want. I would also guess it's something a fellow officer could use against you or threaten you with if they were out to get you.

I don't know how how the US military handles that kind of thing, but as a general rule, "would be damaging if became public knowledge" is a very bad thing for anybody whose job involves access to classified information. Blackmailing people with their affairs is one of the oldest tricks in espionage.

 

[Voboy]

I never knew many generals.

But I’d imagine a lot of them cheat. I’d imagine all their pals know it. And that nobody talks about it.

 

[Hypoxia]

My military service was at the end of VietNam era. My take: almost everyone cheated when possible and little official resulted. Other issues trumped adultery.

 

[KeithD]

My story is about a General who starts having a torrid affair with a woman not in the military. He is popular, and everyone knows his wife and his family. He's known as a particularly honest and upright guy.

I just wanted a bit of background, like what would happen if his colleagues found out. Would they care? Would it be no big deal? Or would it be a serious infraction that he could get in a lot of trouble for? How much does the military care what high ranking officers do in their private life?

Personally I would guess it's like anywhere else--lots of cheating going on, but they look the other way. As long as it doesn't affect your job or become public knowledge, you can basically do what you want. I would also guess it's something a fellow officer could use against you or threaten you with if they were out to get you.

I guess I'm asking specifically about guys in high leadership positions.

If the woman isn't in the military and the general isn't in a sensitive, highly classified area in his job (e.g., military intelligence, a NATO commander, commander of NORAD), this situation wouldn't be any different from this happening completely outside the military, ergo dependent on the specific relationships and fallout involved. Nothing in the legal vein beyond divorce possibilities.

An example of when something official might kick in--if the general were in a highly sensitive/classified area and writing a book about his area of service and is having an adulterous affair with the ghost writer of his book (a scenario that has happened), there would be a lot of official scrutiny on just who this ghost writer was and what she was being given access to. This could lead to the general being bounced, but it wouldn't be for adultery except as a byproduct.