Abuse: is there such a thing in the 'lifestyle'?

[lil_slave_rose]

I never thought I'd kick a guy's nuts just for fun.

I would have thought it wrong, insane, not safe, and generally unladylike and bad at a former point in my life.

Needless to say I am not where I was on this. It's still not the safest rainy day activity. And yet, it's a fave.

And I do it simply because I feel like it, just whenever. My trainer would be horrified by that, would say that if they hate it I should reserve it for pun-ish-ment (blah).

You have no idea what his needs will be in a month. Or he yours. Or even tomorrow. You know what kind of person he is, that he values you, and you can be reasonably assured that this valuation and love will minimize harm. H doesn't sleep with one eye open and a nut cup on just because he knows I might be feeling antsy.

why oh why does everyone have the impression that i don't think things change?? where have i implied this??? but i can guarantee you, my thoughts, feelings, and whatever on abuse will remain the same until the day i die, period. i KNOW that our relationship will change, grow etc...it already has ..when i first started this journey with Him, we started out without being lovers, He was my mentor, nothing else, then it evolved into a D/s relationship with alot of limits, most of the limits i started out with, have now been pushed beyond to the point they are no longer limits, i have very few left, and KNOW that when we are together 24/7 those limits that are left will also be pushed and probably will not be limits anymore. i'm not sure where everyone is getting that i don't 'get' this, simply because i say that i will not change my view on abuse???

 

[Netzach]

lol, i can very much relate to the above. while it's true that yes, Daddy may do whatever he wants with me, and sometimes that means lending me out for a few hours to some mystery sadist, or tasting his poop, or yes, even a literal butt-kicking (see you two have more in common than you think! lol), the majority of the time it means keeping the floors vacuumed, making soup and sandwiches, polishing his shoes, and keeping the cat away from his black slacks. uber-hardcore stuff.

*chuckle* yeah, as if life could be all torture and kicks in the ass.

Hey I just called it *torture*

That's as appalling as "abuse" isn't it?

 

[Netzach]

One kind of fear, though, is delicious: the fear of getting caught. My sub loved me to make her strip in a public place like the Tate (an art museum) or in the park. It got progressively serious: first lifting her top; then lowering her pants; finally disrobing completely. I threw a raincoat on her once just before a guard showed up. She was positively panicked. We escaped and she blew me in the gents' in a restaurant.

Ok, cool.

For some people this isn't delicious at all, it's beyond unthinkable and torture.

For some people being blindfolded tied to tracks close to but not right in front of the oncoming train and shitting themselves because they are certain they are going to die is hot stuff.

What you think is delicious isn't the line of arbitration between abuse and not abuse. That is my point.

My relationship encompasses punching and kicking spitting and pissing and probably eventually shitting (why not?) I'm not about to pretty it up when I have someone eager to participate in what I like.

 

[JMohegan]

JM, You have confused me greatly with this whole post. i realize i am not in the drivers seat, but i also know that HE knows me well enough to know where HE can take me without me falling apart and being harmed. will my opinions change ? on some things, you bet. will my limits be pushed? of course. will i be abused by Him?? no, i won't, and if He does abuse me, well then i'm gone. and yes, it is that simple. Master doesn't justify crap to anyone. He does what He does because He can, because i have given Him my submission and nothing more, if He wants to punish me, there is no 'justification' needed. as far as the violence, He and i neither one have a need for that in our relationship either. in my opinion there is a difference between Dominant and Domineering, and no i'm not saying that a Dominant lives His whole life without being Domineering at some point, but the majority do not live that way ALL of the time...that's the difference IMO

I am not saying that you would ever consent to being abused, and I sure as heck am not saying that you should.

As for the Dominant vs. domineering..... once again, Rose, think spectrum.

Dominant is either a role or a desire/need. Either way you look at it, Dominant is *not* an ideal.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I am not saying that you would ever consent to being abused, and I sure as heck am not saying that you should.

As for the Dominant vs. domineering..... once again, Rose, think spectrum.

Dominant is either a role or a desire/need. Either way you look at it, Dominant is *not* an ideal.

i think we are in agreement.....i think

 

[JMohegan]

What you think is delicious isn't the line of arbitration between abuse and not abuse. That is my point.

I agree.

Underneath it all at all times was our love for each other.

Underneath it all at all times is the fact that your needs are well-matched.

That's the key.

 

[callinectes]

One kind of fear, though, is delicious: the fear of getting caught. My sub loved me to make her strip in a public place like the Tate (an art museum) or in the park. It got progressively serious: first lifting her top; then lowering her pants; finally disrobing completely. I threw a raincoat on her once just before a guard showed up. She was positively panicked. We escaped and she blew me in the gents' in a restaurant.

Why do people think it is cool to do that kind of shit in public? An isolated park is one thing. A museum is quite another.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

Why do people think it is cool to do that kind of shit in public? An isolated park is one thing. A museum is quite another.

i agree completely, because i promise ya, if i was in the museum and especially if my kids were with me, they'd be reported and wouldn't have gotten away. i don't know why some feel it's 'ok' to involve the public in that kind of stuff. i'm all for subtle things, or as you said in an isolated part of the park where someone coming up on you is not very likely, but in a public place, where kids are present or even adults who do not want to take part in your fantasies, just doesn't make sense to me. it's all about the thrill i suppose *shrugs*

 

[enpassant18]

Why do people think it is cool to do that kind of shit in public? An isolated park is one thing. A museum is quite another.

In our defense: it was very late just before closing, no possibility of children being there. But I understand your point. Thanks

 

[catalina_francisco]

It's interesting. I know my ownership would suffer from having property live in. I would like H not to be on another coast, but I do not ever want him in my house 24/7. The death of service is expectation. I eventually feel tugged by expectation to the point where it'd weaken me too much. It's not an issue of preserving some halcyon fantasy, but knowing where my boundaries are as a person.

I don't know how you all do it, but kudos.

I think it all depends on what you want and how it works for you. We both wanted a permanent relationship in the more traditional understanding which meant given neither of us have energy to spend on more than one main relationship, that it worked best for us to be 24/7 in both M/s and more mainstream understandings of relationships. It isn't always easy, and far from hiccough free, but when those happen or we feel it is losing the dynamic we wanted due to other pressures, we just do a refocus and get it back to where we want it to be.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/376615023_c81f9c8c7c_t.jpg Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Yes. I operate from the school of not requiring explanations.

I happen to be a very talkative magnanimous sort who is really quite nice most of the time. But that's just luck on the part of those who pick me. And it does eventually run out.

The only reason, justification, or explanation that applies in my case is the fact that I am a *much* nicer partner when I get what I need from a relationship.

Give me my moments of sadistic delight.... give me control when I need it.... and in general I will be a relaxed, happy, playful, kind, warm, reasonable, understanding, loving, and romantic partner.

Take those things away in a personal relationship, and I'm irritable, unreasonable, tense, and generally speaking a first class pain in the ass as a mate.

That's the paradox, really.

 

[catalina_francisco]

why oh why does everyone have the impression that i don't think things change?? where have i implied this??? but i can guarantee you, my thoughts, feelings, and whatever on abuse will remain the same until the day i die, period. i KNOW that our relationship will change, grow etc...it already has ..when i first started this journey with Him, we started out without being lovers, He was my mentor, nothing else, then it evolved into a D/s relationship with alot of limits, most of the limits i started out with, have now been pushed beyond to the point they are no longer limits, i have very few left, and KNOW that when we are together 24/7 those limits that are left will also be pushed and probably will not be limits anymore. i'm not sure where everyone is getting that i don't 'get' this, simply because i say that i will not change my view on abuse???

I'm not sure it is as simple as people not thinking you know things will change, but more so that sometimes it seems you have an idea of what you will and will not accept and expect and nothing outside that vision is going to fly with you though you say you expect to be 'no limits'. It is normal at this point, but what some of us are saying is he might find there are things he does develop a taste for, or which he buried deep because he felt it was wrong or shameful but over time might feel able to be open with you about if you make it possible for him to feel it is OK to do that....and there are things you just find absolutely on the 'never' list which might also change....these changes cannot take place if rigidity to ideas and ideals remain in place, and that can be when friction starts, or one lives the way they know the other expects, not the way which makes for happiness.

You acknowledge change is normal, but only within the guidlelines of what you will accept, not open to the consideration of anything he might find he wants/needs/desires which are not on that list. At least that is what I am reading at times. Don't be afraid to be open to evolving freely when you know he has both your best interests at heart. Perhaps also for my part, I feel your history of abuse is influencing a lot of how you see this and are approaching it...and once again it is normal but may need to be discussed with him more and often to make sure you do not limit and guide his (and your own) journey due to events in your past.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/376615023_c81f9c8c7c_t.jpg Catalina

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I'm not sure it is as simple as people not thinking you know things will change, but more so that sometimes it seems you have an idea of what you will and will not accept and expect and nothing outside that vision is going to fly with you though you say you expect to be 'no limits'. It is normal at this point, but what some of us are saying is he might find there are things he does develop a taste for, or which he buried deep because he felt it was wrong or shameful but over time might feel able to be open with you about if you make it possible for him to feel it is OK to do that....and there are things you just find absolutely on the 'never' list which might also change....these changes cannot take place if rigidity to ideas and ideals remain in place, and that can be when friction starts, or one lives the way they know the other expects, not the way which makes for happiness.

You acknowledge change is normal, but only within the guidlelines of what you will accept, not open to the consideration of anything he might find he wants/needs/desires which are not on that list. At least that is what I am reading at times. Don't be afraid to be open to evolving freely when you know he has both your best interests at heart. Perhaps also for my part, I feel your history of abuse is influencing a lot of how you see this and are approaching it...and once again it is normal but may need to be discussed with him more and often to make sure you do not limit and guide his (and your own) journey due to events in your past.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/376615023_c81f9c8c7c_t.jpg Catalina

cat you have a very strange view of the way i see things. first, i don't recall every saying that i was ever going to be a 'no limits' slave. and i'm not sure where i've ever implied that i am not open to new ideas, or things that He will find one day that He does actually want, that previously He didn't. i am always open to His desires, that is our dynamic. i am not letting my past history stop me from anything, that was years ago, but i do KNOW that i will never be where i was with my ex ever again, and i will walk away if it starts feeling that way, that part of me will not change. as i said in an earlier post it took me too many damn years to build myself back up to let someone else tear me down again. but that does not mean that i am not open to His desires. they have changed just as much as my limits and such have changed through the 3 years we've been together, so again i'm not sure why you think, or what i've said that makes you think, i'm not open to the new things? but to say that i will ever be open to letting Him abuse me, degrade me, make me feel like less of a person is different than being open to His desires. we talk all of the time about what we want out of our relationship, i'm aware of the things He expects of me, and that those things will change with time, and growth, well aware.

He knows everything there is to know about my past, and about my depression and we deal with it as it comes along, trust me it is not hindering our journey at all. and you're right there are things on the 'never' list for me, actually ONE on the never list, and that is i will NEVER EVER EVER be in the type of relationship that i was in with my ex. if that makes me less submissive then oh well, but i will not allow anyone to treat me that way, ever again, Master, 'nilla' or whatever...and i don't know why, in your eyes, that is not ok, or that you think it will somehow hinder our journey. because if He has the desire to become an abusive jerk, well then i dont' want to take the journey with him anyway, because He's not the kind of guy i want in my life. i'm open to His desires, i'm open to what He wants, He is the one in the drivers seat, He is not abusive therefore i highly doubt that He will decide in time , that He needs to abuse me the way my ex did and if he does, well at that point, our journey has come to an end, period. and as i said, i'm not sure why you don't see that as an ok thing? are you saying that i should allow him to do those things to me (the abuse i endured at the hands of my ex) because it's what He desires??? i just can't agree....i won't be in a place where i'm not loved and respected, been there done that and i will NOT EVER do it again, period.

 

[Netzach]

i agree completely, because i promise ya, if i was in the museum and especially if my kids were with me, they'd be reported and wouldn't have gotten away. i don't know why some feel it's 'ok' to involve the public in that kind of stuff. i'm all for subtle things, or as you said in an isolated part of the park where someone coming up on you is not very likely, but in a public place, where kids are present or even adults who do not want to take part in your fantasies, just doesn't make sense to me. it's all about the thrill i suppose *shrugs*

This is why I prefer to do ludicrous things in bars. Everyone's over 21, at least here.

And drunk people do stupider things than I could ever dream of making my subs do anyhow.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not sure it is as simple as people not thinking you know things will change, but more so that sometimes it seems you have an idea of what you will and will not accept and expect and nothing outside that vision is going to fly with you though you say you expect to be 'no limits'. It is normal at this point, but what some of us are saying is he might find there are things he does develop a taste for, or which he buried deep because he felt it was wrong or shameful but over time might feel able to be open with you about if you make it possible for him to feel it is OK to do that....and there are things you just find absolutely on the 'never' list which might also change....these changes cannot take place if rigidity to ideas and ideals remain in place, and that can be when friction starts, or one lives the way they know the other expects, not the way which makes for happiness.

You acknowledge change is normal, but only within the guidlelines of what you will accept, not open to the consideration of anything he might find he wants/needs/desires which are not on that list. At least that is what I am reading at times. Don't be afraid to be open to evolving freely when you know he has both your best interests at heart. Perhaps also for my part, I feel your history of abuse is influencing a lot of how you see this and are approaching it...and once again it is normal but may need to be discussed with him more and often to make sure you do not limit and guide his (and your own) journey due to events in your past.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/376615023_c81f9c8c7c_t.jpg Catalina

And maybe it needs to be said - some submissives have limits.

Maybe a few, maybe like, 3, but for some people it's much more psychologically tolerable and comforting to have some limits and know they're not going to get screwed with. Without that knowledge they'll never go forward because they'll always be fretting about what might happen. Limits are kind of anathema to my concept of ownership, but I'm me. Falling in love is anathema to my concept of ownership as well, which is a minority viewpoint. Limits are compatible with my idea of D/s, the idea that someone will, generally, more often than not, submit to what I want, is pretty much cake and eating it too.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And maybe it needs to be said - some submissives have limits.

Maybe a few, maybe like, 3, but for some people it's much more psychologically tolerable and comforting to have some limits and know they're not going to get screwed with. Without that knowledge they'll never go forward because they'll always be fretting about what might happen. Limits are kind of anathema to my concept of ownership, but I'm me. Falling in love is anathema to my concept of ownership as well, which is a minority viewpoint. Limits are compatible with my idea of D/s, the idea that someone will, generally, more often than not, submit to what I want, is pretty much cake and eating it too.

I know some do, more than don't I suspect. It is all about choice and what fits.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/384084214_0494620093_t.jpg Catalina

 

[MasterPhoenix]

As I have said before rose, I am sure after you both live under the same roof for awhile, you will begin to see what some of us are saying. You may not choose to go to the extremes some do, but I doubt all you find unacceptable now will remain so forever, and not because MP forces you in any way but because you make a choice once you see how your desires and feelings grow.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/382622317_6b70a5a419_t.jpg Catalina

As I said earlier in this thread, we HAVE in fact discussed that very fact. She is well aware of it where she has seen it happen since we have started talking.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

rose, we all define abuse differently, as we've seen recently on the various threads regarding the subject. for you, abuse is the anti-love, and anti-consent. i do not define abuse by consent or love. and in my relationship, my Master's abuse is an expression of his love. for a certain sort of sadistic Dominant-type, abusive treatment is their equivalent to the vanilla "d*mn, i love you." now, because this is the sort of relationship i need, because i love and worship my Master, because i gave myself to him 6+ years ago as his property to use as he willed...does that mean that i am always happy? never depressed, never suffer, am never degraded and yes, even abused? that i never succumb to self-pity or fear? of course not. but i accept those things as a part of life, and neither myself nor my Master have ever accepted the romanticized vision of M/s which states that a slave must always be happy and joyful, that a Master must always be kind and considerate, that things must never be pushed too far.

Does she expect Me to always be kind and considerate? No. There are times now that I can be a demanding bastard. And there will be times in the future that I will be. That I want it, and will get it.

Its not about being happy and joyful all the time, life is not Disneyland even in the 'nilla world. She KNOW that I am going to push because I want to, but she also knows that I know the difference between hurt and harm. She KNOWS I am not going to throw her down and start kicking her until I have broken her ribs just for shits and giggles. As she is My property, I happen to valuate it highly in good working order.

you keep insisting that your views on this will not change as things change and grow in your own relationship, and perhaps they won't. but speaking from experience i can tell you how surprised you would be at how values, beliefs, even firmly held convictions can change completely once you live this life "24/7." i would be embarassed to share here some of the views i formerly had...some of the things i swore with every fiber of my being were NOT right, or would NEVER happen to me. now i've learned to just hush up and listen regarding such things because with time (and a sufficiently wise, deviant Master) all things are possible.

As has been said by both her and I MULTIPLE times on this thread, she knows that things will be pushed MUCH further than they had been in the past. She knows that it will be going different places than it has been. In fact, I ahve held back on things that we have BOTH wanted to experiment with out of concern for her long term well being since I was only there a limited time. She knows that we will be delving much deeper as we get settled in together into a 24-7 real time relationship.

Also OSG, she was not attacking you for the life that you lead, in fact she is concerned about your safety and well being.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

My introduction to the lifestyle was through a book entitled "The Loving Dominant." The Master/sub relationship is, for me, a love connection, not a power thing. The sub submits out of love, the master dominates ouf of love. I can't imagine a situation where I would want to beat up someone I love.

When i would deny my sub her orgasm, it was with an important subtext: to heighten her pleasure later. And when she would submit to my denial, it was with an important subtext: to heighten my pleasure as I watched her squirm.

Underneath it all at all times was our love for each other. She surrendered her will to me because she needed to; I accepted it as a gift because i wanted to. Punching her in the face just wasn't anywhere in the cards.

I have never read that book, and honestly if it says that its not a power connection, I think I will save the 19.99 I would be giving to Borders to get it and a few trees. Yes, our bond to one another is of love, but the dynamics of our Master slave connection are based on the exchange of power. I use love as My guide in Dominating her, because I do love her.

As far as denial, I have done that not to enhance her pleasure later, BUT because I wanted to for the simple reason I could. I get off on having her on that edge denying her most basic instinct because it is NO LONGER hers, but Mine to issue at will. As she begs Me to have a basic bodily urge, hell yes I am enjoying it. I have also denied her as a means of discipline.

I do agree on the last paragraph, in that punching her in the face is not in the cards. I am not Bill Romonowski and am going to hall off and bust her eye socket because I can. That is not part of My reality and desires.

 

[Lorelei_11]

The only reason, justification, or explanation that applies in my case is the fact that I am a *much* nicer partner when I get what I need from a relationship.

Give me my moments of sadistic delight.... give me control when I need it.... and in general I will be a relaxed, happy, playful, kind, warm, reasonable, understanding, loving, and romantic partner.

Take those things away in a personal relationship, and I'm irritable, unreasonable, tense, and generally speaking a first class pain in the ass as a mate.

That's the paradox, really.

I think thats true of everyone. When we don't get our needs met, and some of our wants, we aren't at our best. Although, some people will never have the quailites you list, content or not.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

You're not in the driver's seat, Rose. He is. You are consenting to the ride, but where are you going? And how will you feel about it when you get there? At this point, do you really know?

What she does know is where I do expect it to go, which is something we have discussed at length before we decided to make the jump of My moving across country. We have similar expectations and desires, and she knows damn well that she is not in the driver's seat.

One thing I can tell you from personal experience on the Top side is that it's a *very* slippery slope.

I do not have a need or interest in the level of violence experienced in more intense SM relationships. Not even close.

Nor do I. I love the control aspect, and I do identify as a sadist, but I am not into extreme sadistic actions that would cause any long term harm. (unless you call cutting or marking extreme long term harm)

But neither do I have a need to justify what I do with reasons such as: "she misbehaved and needs to be punished", or "it's important for a submissive to be reminded of her place every now and then", or "it's important for her to grow in her submission", or indeed any of the other euphemisms commonly used to justify SM activities by some.

I do things to punish her, but I don't really like to. But there are times when it has to be done.

For the most part I like to engage in our play because I enjoy it. Shit, I don't want or need an excuse to flog her ass or tits into some nice shades of red. I haven't gotten into deeper shades of purple or blue YET. Although I will, and she damn well knows it.

I see punishment and most of our SM activities as mutually exclusive. I have an instrument that is set aside for just punishment, and when she is being punished it is not about pleasure. It is approached differently from beginning to end, and I can vouch that even at this stage her mind and body know the difference.

I am always amused when people talk about domineering asshats and Dominants as if they are mutually exclusive creatures.

domineer = to rule over or control arbitrarily or arrogantly

In theory, I suppose it's possible that a Dominant could live 24/7 for a sustained period of time with a willing subject and *never* exert control in an arbitrary or arrogant way.

In theory it's possible, but I've never seen it happen. And I sure as hell wouldn't put money on it.

IMO, the difference between a domineering asshammer and a Dominant is self control. IMO, anyone can be a domineering asshammer, while a Dominant must first be someone who is in control of himself before he can control another.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

This made me smile because I remember a time when we both felt the same way, very strongly. It was not until we had been living together for quite awhile, that it felt OK to actually discuss it again in terms of our feelings at that moment. We both had experienced a shift to a place where it was acceptable and OK for him to come home or be plain frustrated with something, and use me in an SM sense to relieve that tension. Granted he does not punch me in the face, but to me the type of physical treatment matters little compared to the fact it is often thought of by others as abusive for him to use me in that way. It even took my encouraging him he could believe me when I said it was OK before he could accept the feelings he had and act on them. It then took a few times of doing it before he began to actually see through his fears I wold hold it against him, that I actually didn't and saw it as one more way I could serve him.

that is definately a way to serve him, and as you said its clearly consensual. Also, I do not think that ANYONE on this board believes you are being abused. It is clear from your postings that you reflect very well on F.

I too had a 24/7 mindset way before we even met, but it just isn't the same as when you are actually face to face 24/7. For one thing, thinking about how he wants or would like things and making a decision based on that is far different to when you are right there day in day out and subject to him actually making that decison for you or telling you that what you thought is not what he wants right at that moment. Just having him there watching all the time can be both a blessing and a pressure at various times, far more than when you are separated by a lot of kilometres with zeros on the end of them. It is what comes up most in discussions with people who are LDR or online only and those who are not....invariably there is often a lack of understanding what we are talking about until you have walked in our shoes. And no, that is not meant to be superior, it is just fact coming from someone who has done it both ways.

for the 894th time on this thread, She KNOWS there is going to be a difference between LDR & RT, as well as a visit and living together.

It is like night and day. And yes, even having those times when you visit do not compare or give you a point of reference as it is like going somewhere on vacation and thinking you would love to live there because it is so great while on vacation. Or perhaps a better analogy is thinking about being a teacher who works a particular amount of hours each week and then spends the rest at home, and then being a teacher who is in a place such as a boarding school perhaps where you live in and are basically expected and required to be that teacher whenever it is required in terms of responsibility and the way you live your daily life 24/7 because the students are always there too and see what you do or need your help.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/376776825_821ac56c28_t.jpg Catalina

Yes its going to be a different, as I say in many many threads this lifestyle is a journey. Yes things that are limits today, will be cravings next week etc... We have seen it evlove.

What I do not understand is that rose posted her CONCERNS about OSG, and now it has turned into a thread about how rose does not know what is coming. I find that insulting, as if it is being implied that I have not communicated what I expect with her before moving three quarters of the way across the country.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

lol, i can very much relate to the above. while it's true that yes, Daddy may do whatever he wants with me, and sometimes that means lending me out for a few hours to some mystery sadist, or tasting his poop, or yes, even a literal butt-kicking (see you two have more in common than you think! lol), the majority of the time it means keeping the floors vacuumed, making soup and sandwiches, polishing his shoes, and keeping the cat away from his black slacks. uber-hardcore stuff.

I don't think anyone is questioning the soup & sandwiches etc....

I don't think that anyone is questioning the scat play....

rose was concerned from where you said that you were ***abused*** And she was NOT attacking, but concerned for your well being.

 

[Bandit58]

Yes, she does admit it and frankly I find that reassuring. (It's important to keep her definition of abuse in mind here. You'll find it in post 23.)

Personally I consider her honesty, awareness and acceptance to be a *much* healthier sign than denial.

Think about what you would say to mainstream people about the beating Phoenix gave you. Something like: "No, no, please don't worry about me. Yes, it hurt and yes, my rear end was 'harmed' while it happened but he has the right to beat me if he doesn't like my answers to questions because I gave him that right. It's really hard to explain, but the problem is not what he's doing, the problem is just that you don't understand why this works for me."

Isn't that what you would say? And isn't that what osg is saying too?

I understand why the level of violence she describes makes your stomach lurch. But the world of BDSM is not limited to Castlerealm-style D/s. I've seen relationships involving intense violence in real life, with real people, and somehow the one on the bottom does not end up like Geoff's dog as described in post 54. Somehow she thrives instead.

In contrast, I've seen relationships involving very little violence in which the one on the bottom withdraws into herself, becomes incommunicative, fearful, dejected, or just plain blank.

It's not the level of violence, it's the effect on the subject that matters. As for why different people thrive on different levels of violence or the absence thereof, don't ask me to explain that because I truly have no idea.

Just wanted to comment on the bolded part of your post. I was in a marriage for 23 years which involved no physical violence, but was abusive in the way he treated me emotionally with putdowns and criticism. This affected my self esteem and self confidence very badly and I also still have "triggers" like angry voices and occasional nightmares, and problems in communicating my feelings even to Master who I know would never treat me badly.

We have been together for 3 years now and still having to work on these things daily. Our D/s has evolved from bedroom only to service outside it as His full time carer. I have hard limits on things like giving Him financial control over me (which He does not want anyway, but will never happen in any subsequent relationship I ever find myself in).

Emotional damage can be just as bad as physical.....except no one sees the bruises

 

[MasterPhoenix]

The only reason, justification, or explanation that applies in my case is the fact that I am a *much* nicer partner when I get what I need from a relationship.

Give me my moments of sadistic delight.... give me control when I need it.... and in general I will be a relaxed, happy, playful, kind, warm, reasonable, understanding, loving, and romantic partner.

Take those things away in a personal relationship, and I'm irritable, unreasonable, tense, and generally speaking a first class pain in the ass as a mate.

That's the paradox, really.

I am right with you there J. That describes Me to a T.