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Abject Sex: The New & Disgusting Frontier?

shereads said:
That's one of the reasons I can't read or watch brutality-based entertainment, even if it's well written - or maybe especially if it's well written. Writing a "Silence of the Lambs" entails thinking through those tortures, envisioning them in detail, even embracing them. My visceral reaction has less to do with the acts themselves, which I recognize aren't real - at least in that instance - than with the act of creation: someone chose to create this horror and live in it, long enough to put it into words. There's an almost gleeful fascination with the macabre, on behalf of some artists and their audiences, that has turned my stomach since I got my first glimpse of "House of Wax." Tongue in cheek? Didn't matter. That's the thing with a visceral response.

I may admire an author's ability to manipulate an audience and sell his work, but I can't help being repulsed by what he invited into his mind in order to do it. It's not like reading a non-fiction account of something equally gruesome, like "Under the Banner of Heaven." When a journalist like Krakauer explores horror, he doesn't create horror. He's a guide to what already exists in the darkness.

When it comes to non-empathetic sex scenes in porn: can a writer pander to his readers' fascination with sex acts in which he has no personal interest? Can he immerse a character in feces without getting his mental gloves dirty? Probably, if his readers don't demand credibility. The more believable the sex scene, the more difficult it becomes to think the author wasn't immersed in it, body and soul.

At a free story site like Literotica, why pander at all? It would be like pimping for free.
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D'accord :rose:
 
shereads said:
That's one of the reasons I can't read or watch brutality-based entertainment, even if it's well written - or maybe especially if it's well written. Writing a "Silence of the Lambs" entails thinking through those tortures, envisioning them in detail, even embracing them. My visceral reaction has less to do with the acts themselves, which I recognize aren't real - at least in that instance - than with the act of creation: someone chose to create this horror and live in it, long enough to put it into words. There's an almost gleeful fascination with the macabre, on behalf of some artists and their audiences, that has turned my stomach since I got my first glimpse of "House of Wax." Tongue in cheek? Didn't matter. That's the thing with a visceral response.

I may admire an author's ability to manipulate an audience and sell his work, but I can't help being repulsed by what he invited into his mind in order to do it. It's not like reading a non-fiction account of something equally gruesome, like "Under the Banner of Heaven." When a journalist like Krakauer explores horror, he doesn't create horror. He's a guide to what already exists in the darkness.

When it comes to non-empathetic sex scenes in porn: can a writer pander to his readers' fascination with sex acts in which he has no personal interest? Can he immerse a character in feces without getting his mental gloves dirty? Probably, if his readers don't demand credibility. The more believable the sex scene, the more difficult it becomes to think the author wasn't immersed in it, body and soul.

At a free story site like Literotica, why pander at all? It would be like pimping for free.
Click to expand...



That's very true. A writer has to immerse him or herself in a character or situation much, much more than a reader ever does, and it's work and it takes a toll, and I've had stories I've literally lost sleep over (neurotic as I am) because of what I've had to do to my characters. Part of being an author is being extra empathic, and there's a lot of subjects I won't bother with because I'm just not willing to put myself through the ordeal of fully living it in my imagination. It hurts and it's uncomfortable and why in the world would you want to put yourself through that unless you were assured there was going to be some terrific artistic payoff? In most abject sex I've explored, I haven't found that payoff. When I do, I'm willing to go after it, but puke for puke's sake? No. I mean, I could write it for you. Pay me and I will. Pay me and I'll write you a great puke story. The greatest puke story you ever read. But it's work and I'm probably going to have to go throw up a few times while I'm writing it because that's how into it I'm going to get.

We start getting into some interesting issues here, like why we write in the first place and what we feel our responsibilities are. Right now, I write mostly for popularity and money, so I'm not likely to wander out where the weeds are when my readers are looking for flowers, but my real interest is in what happens beneath the level of conscious desire - the things we feel but don't usually express verbally even to ourselves, and that's big territory and goes some weird places, and I could easily see that leading me in some abject directions, in which case I'd have to follow.

But that's not what I'm trying to do right now, at least not most of the time, and you couple that with my own natural aversion to most abject sex - the fact that it simply doesn't interest me - and you'd might as well ask me why I don't write more baseball stories. The answer is: because I just don't like baseball stories.

And you could say, yeah, but you used a bat in this story here, and in that story there they played catch, so why won't you write a baseball story? And the answer's the same. Because I don't like baseball stories.
 
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doc's lack of interest

my own natural aversion to most abject sex - the fact that it simply doesn't interest me

the doc's 50 postings to this thread, started by him, attest to that! ;)
 
Maybe he just gets off on arguing, like a lot of people around here...*cough*. :rolleyes:

Maybe he means that it doesn't interest him sexually, but I know that he finds human behaviour to be interesting.

He wants to understand why we do what we do, and why we like what we like.

If I'm incorrect I'm sure he'll let me know in the morning.

Goodnight.
 
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Pure said:
doc's lack of interest

my own natural aversion to most abject sex - the fact that it simply doesn't interest me

the doc's 50 postings to this thread, started by him, attest to that! ;)
Click to expand...

This might be a good time to concede that both of us were right in two separate points. Number one, I was right when I said that it's important that we specifiy what we mean by "abject sex", otherwise we literally don't know what we're talking about, and I think 90% of this debate has been based on an error of understanding over what's meant by "abject sex".

The second concession I'd make is that therefore we do need to define our terms. Pure's defined his (although I forgot what it was - a loss in status or something). Now I'll define mine. "Abject sex" for me means sex designed to cause disgust and revulsion and even nausea in observers and witnesses. It's aversion sex. The kind of thing you specifically wish you hadn't seen. Maybe that definition makes my own aversion to it easier to understand.

I just got a new book. Maybe I can give you some examples from their dictionary. (All these are from Sexploration, by Suzi Goodman with Mel Agage, Amorata Press, 2005, pp 172-175)

Mucophagy: consuming nasal mucus; often part of nasalingus - the practice of licking and sucking someone's nostrils

Emetophilia: When a person is aroused by vomit or vomiting. Also knows as a "Roman Shower", emetophiles usually drink wine or urine in order to vomit on their partners, though sometimes they force their partners to overeat in order to trigger vomiting during fellatio.

Eprotiphilia: Arousal from flatulence

Chezolagnia: Masturbating while defecating

Avisodomy: An ancient but cruel practice of penetrating a bird with a penis. Shortly before orgasm, the man snaps the bird's neck cause the bird to spasm...

Ballooning: The practice of injecting a man's scrotum with salt water solution to make it blow up like a balloon. As the solution filters through the penis, this swells to at least twice its normal size for a short time (odd but impressive). This is a risky procedure and requires a substantial amount of advanced medical knowledge.

Ophidicism: inserting eels or snakes tail first into the vagina and masturbating as they wiggle free...

Occulolinctus: licking a partner's eyeball for sexual stimulation (can transfer oral herpes)



Actually, I might use Occulolinctus and I have, in a story I wrote a long time ago, not erotic.

Anyhow, these were just kind of cool. They have nothing really to do with anything.


My whole point in this debate is: I'm a writer. I''ll write what I damn please. Don't lecture me and don't tell me what I think and don't give me, "Well in this you said, and in this you said..." because I don't care about that and I never claimed to be logically consistent and I'm not writing syllogisms. I have to maintain certain standards in what I write because it hurts me and disgusts me to treat my characters a certain way and I don't see the point in it.

I also believe that total license leads to anarchy which leads to nihilism, that the only things that stands between us and the Nazi mentality or the Khmer Rouge is when we stand up and arbitrarily say that something is disgusting and we won't allow it, and that writers are some of the people who have to do this.

I work hard at my craft and I resent the idea that there's such a thing as "just writing about" something, as if that isolates it from real life. I happen to think that writers and poets define and invent real life for the rest of us and you are pretty much what you read. I'd hate to live in a world where everyone wrote like De Sade. I'd hate to live in a world where Creationism was considered just as true as Evolution, but that's where we're headed because of lack of standards and because people won't stand up for what's true over what's not.

If you have a problem with all this, learn to write yourself and write whatever you damn please and then argue with yourself.

My goal as a writer is to communicate, to tell people what things are like, not to debate and win arguments, and I've lost sight of that in this thread and started arguing and I don't like doing that. I don't care about arguments. I care about communicating and telling you what things feel like to me, and you can take it or leave it.

--Zoot
 
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Pure said:
doc's lack of interest

my own natural aversion to most abject sex - the fact that it simply doesn't interest me

the doc's 50 postings to this thread, started by him, attest to that! ;)
Click to expand...
Well, if I read the first post correctly, this thread as not intended to be about abject sex, but about the interrest (and precioeved rise of interrest) in abject sex, which can be quite fascinating even if you're not interrrested in the practice yourself.

I find the Pro Wrestling phenomena quite fascinating (not to mention that it's aired on sports channels, when it's pretty much live-action cartoons). But I wouldn't be able to watch five minutes of it without reaching for the remote.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I just got a new book. Maybe I can give you some examples from their dictionary. (All these are from Sexploration, by Suzi Goodman with Mel Agage, Amorata Press, 2005, pp 172-175)

Mucophagy: consuming nasal mucus; often part of nasalingus - the practice of licking and sucking someone's nostrils

Emetophilia: When a person is aroused by vomit or vomiting. Also knows as a "Roman Shower", emetophiles usually drink wine or urine in order to vomit on their partners, though sometimes they force their partners to overeat in order to trigger vomiting during fellatio.

Eprotiphilia: Arousal from flatulence

Chezolagnia: Masturbating while defecating

Avisodomy: An ancient but cruel practice of penetrating a bird with a penis. Shortly before orgasm, the man snaps the bird's neck cause the bird to spasm...

Ballooning: The practice of injecting a man's scrotum with salt water solution to make it blow up like a balloon. As the solution filters through the penis, this swells to at least twice its normal size for a short time (odd but impressive). This is a risky procedure and requires a substantial amount of advanced medical knowledge.

Ophidicism: inserting eels or snakes tail first into the vagina and masturbating as they wiggle free...

Occulolinctus: licking a partner's eyeball for sexual stimulation (can transfer oral herpes)

Actually, I might use Occulolinctus and I have, in a story I wrote a long time ago, not erotic.

Anyhow, these were just kind of cool. They have nothing really to do with anything.
Click to expand...


(•)(•) <------------ my eyeballs are stuck like this. Call 911.
 
Sub Joe said:
Shereads loves this thread. She can't get enough of it
Click to expand...

That's true of any thread.

I collect thread. I used to collect lint but nobody posts lint anymore.
 
shereads said:
That's true of any thread.

I collect thread. I used to collect lint but nobody posts lint anymore.
Click to expand...

I want to roll you along the sleeves of my velvet jacket
 
dr_mabeuse said:
...Abject sex" for me means sex designed to cause disgust and revulsion and even nausea in observers and witnesses. It's aversion sex. The kind of thing you specifically wish you hadn't seen. Maybe that definition makes my own aversion to it easier to understand...
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In that case, I can guarantee that I have never, ever, engaged in any kind of abject sex. I'll have to come up with a different name for what I thought was abject sex...
 
shereads said:
(•)(•) <------------ my eyeballs are stuck like this. Call 911.
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those are your eyes? I thought they were like this -> ___ ___
 
Stella_Omega said:
In that case, I can guarantee that I have never, ever, engaged in any kind of abject sex. I'll have to come up with a different name for what I thought was abject sex...
Click to expand...

That's true, Stella. I hadn't thought of that. I think what you were engaged in was abjectishoid sex rather than truly abject sex. I define abjectishoiid sex as the kind that makes you wish you had peeked.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
That's true, Stella. I hadn't thought of that. I think what you were engaged in was abjectishoid sex rather than truly abject sex. I define abjectishoiid sex as the kind that makes you wish you had peeked.
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:D
Well, I wish I had peeked!

Joe, about that velvet jacket...
 
Stella_Omega said:
I'm the one nibbling on whatever bits of flesh she's left exposed...
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That would be sexy if it didn't remind me of one or two horror movies
 
Sub Joe said:
That would be sexy if it didn't remind me of one or two horror movies
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I was going to say "Chewing on" but I thought that might bother you-- I had no idea your sensibilities were so delicate!
 
Stella_Omega said:
I was going to say "Chewing on" but I thought that might bother you-- I had no idea your sensibilities were so delicate!
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For me
"Take a big chomp out of" - Great white shark
"Chewing on" - rats, puppy dogs
"Nibbling on" - maggots, ticks, other lesser parasites

Personally I'd take the rats and puppies.
 
Sub Joe said:
For me
"Take a big chomp out of" - Great white shark
"Chewing on" - rats, puppy dogs
"Nibbling on" - maggots, ticks, other lesser parasites

Personally I'd take the rats and puppies.
Click to expand...
I'll chew on Sarah, then. And lick, and suck, and fondle and...

:catroar:
 
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