A sleeping giant of a Europroblem

[rambling man]

The immigrant problem is the biggest social problem Europe will face over the next several decades.

Americans have not always been extraordinarily tolerant of immigrants. However, it has historically not been so difficult for an immigrant to get himself, or at least his children, considered American. If you learn to speak English, put your children in school, work hard, and generally conduct yourself well, most people will eventually consider you, or at least your children, to be American.
People from Nigeria, or Germany, or Canada, therefore, can move here and become American. Americans are not an ethnic group.

Not so, German, Dutch, or English. These are ethnic groups comprising a nation. People who immigrate to these countries will live there, but will never be considered part of that ethnic group. France allowed that an African could become French if they accepted French culture , but they also preferred that the person remain in Africa. I think that these people are considered outsiders and will have an extremely hard time breaking that down. They feel this status and are angry about it. This in no way justifies burning a city, whther you are in Oldham or Watts. It is, however, an explanation. There will be a rise in support of nationalist causes, hopefully it will not be the virulent right-wing.

European countries may be forced to redefine what it means to be German, or English. I don't see any other way around it.

 

[Starfish]

Hold on!

I am German... 3/4 blood, and I can speak a bit of it too. My maiden name is German, and so is my married name... The other 1/4 of me is mutt, Ukrainian, Welsh, Scottish....meld???

I was born and raised in America. I am, however, ethnically over half German though, so doesn't that make me German?

Are you telling me that I am not German?
Of course you are.

I am not German!!!

HUH???
What???
You just said????

I know, my brain hurts too, so bare with me.....

I don't know shit about their culture, I do, but I don't, really. I could get a plate of potato salad but I wouldn't know how to say I don't want Bacon in it. Hell, my forebarers would laugh me out of the Hause, because I am vegitarian... No Brats? Yeah! No bra..*kapow*

I know all of the Christmas customs like Pefferneuse, and fresh apples on your tree, but relatively speaking, I don't really know shit.

I am an American, not German. Well, You are probably like ......... ??WTF is she getting at with this???

What I am eluding to, is that now that Irelands economy is picking up, many Irish Americans are returning to their place of their decent. Whoever close these folk are to their native relatives, and to their culture, what is going to come of the second and third generation American/Irish children that's parents decided to return. They come from the land of Disney, and Hollywood. Will they be embraced or rejected by their peers?
It worries me a bit. Just a little bit.

 

[rambling man]

to be utterly blunt, without regard for anyone's feelings, Id say it would be easier for Irish Americans to be reaccepted into Irish culture than Bangladeshis and Turks to be accepted by Germans, English, Irish...maybe color, maybe level of affluence...it would depend on the willingness of the Irish Americans to learn Gaelic, abide by the cultural mores and laws....

Then again, Americans usually move somewhere to reshape the new place in the image of their home....that wont do

 

[Starfish]

to be utterly blunt, without regard for anyone's feelings, Id say it would be easier for Irish Americans to be reaccepted into Irish culture than Bangladeshis and Turks to be accepted by Germans, English, Irish...maybe color, maybe level of affluence...it would depend on the willingness of the Irish Americans to learn Gaelic, abide by the cultural mores and laws....

Then again, Americans usually move somewhere to reshape the new place in the image of their home....that wont do

Yes, they are of the same ethnicity, so obviously. But will there be problems with American Irish children wanting to preserve their "Americanisms" and clashing with the natives? Are you saying you don't see a potential problem with this? I don't know if there will be, I am just concerned for the differences. Who knows???

Oh and on the matter of Americans wanting to reshape a new place to resemble their home.... I think I've heard of that before. Now where have I heard of that before?

 

[rambling man]

i figure wanting to reshape the new land to be ike home will cause problems

Mr stupid : I love the old world charm of Ireland

Mrs stupid : Yes, it's wonderful...they need a McDonalds

Mr: the perfect thing to brighten this place up

Thats what we do to the beautiful parts of our own country, i assume we'd do it to ireland, too

 

[OUTSIDER]

As you may have noticed we've just had an election over here, that nice Mr Blair got to stay in Downing street and the other guy resigned because he lost.

During the election I heard a radio phone in show that was talking about the large number of immigrants that are pouring into this country every week, there were three people on the show, one was pro immigrants, one was anti immigrants and the third was the presenter who was being Mr neutral.

The pro immigrant person said "let them all in" only in more words, the anti immigrant person said "only let the ones in who are really asylum seeker's and not just economic migrants" again only in more words, and the presenter said nothing that didn't make you want to smack him in the teeth.

Towards the end of a boring debate that had given little or no answers a caller asked a question that none of the people on the show could answer, he asked the following.

Caller:- "Given that Britain is an island and has only so much space, and that acording to a govt report this island really should only have 30 million people on it and we now have about 57 million, when do we say enough NO MORE ROOM"........."How many people is too many".

Not one of the people on the show wanted to or could answer the question.






God I love smartass people getting caught on the hop by an awkward question

 

[p_p_man]

The immigrant problem is the biggest social problem Europe will face over the next several decades.

European countries may be forced to redefine what it means to be German, or English. I don't see any other way around it.

There has always been immigration into European countries and it's no worse now than the worse times of before. But being an immigrant carries with it a lot of responsibility.

At the moment Europe is being flooded by asylum seekers (sic) from the Balkans. Among those taking advantage of the mass migrancy are various other groups such as gypseys and travellers of all types. The UK has received more than it's fair share of them because until recently they have been passed from country to country until they reach us and there's nowhere else for them to go.

Also our very generous social benefits system acts as a magnet in its own right. There are areas in the UK which the immigrants have made there own, much to the anger of the local residents. Dover is one of them and various parts of London are another. Even in my area they are beginning to become more obvious dressed as they are in their strange clothes, begging in the streets usually with a baby slung over one arm and not being able to speak a word of English.

All this has given new impetus to the UK neo-Fascists the British Nationalist Party. In our recent election they gained 5% of the vote in certain areas of the midlands, an unheard of percentage since just before WWII.

Now many of these newcomers cannot be classified as true immigrants, being more economic vagrants than anything else but those that do fall into the category of immigrant must take the responsibility to integrate themselves into the country in which they have chosen to settle.

Unfortunately this does not always happen, especially with immigrants from Pakistan and India. Taking the UK's policy of positive discrimination into account (your affirmative policy towards minority groups) then it is small wonder that the indigenous population is feeling crowded out and ignored.

But with those immigrants who have come to our shores over the years the ones that are always welcome are the ones that overcame initial resistance and integrated into their adopted society.

40-50 years ago it was common to see notices outside rooming houses boldly proclaiming "NO DOGS, NO BLACKS, NO IRISH". 50 years before that "NO DOGS, NO CHINESE, NO JEWS". The East European Jews, Chinese and Irish fully integrated themselves into UK society and after the initial problems caused by the merging of two different cultures nobody thinks of newcomers from Ireland, China, or an East European Jew as being an immigrant any more.

As for redefining what it means to be German or English or French or whatever, we're already doing that as a process of creating the European Union.

But that ain't gonna happen overnight.