A pet peeve

[HordHolm]

In Britain, there was the idea always of going 'up' to London, and you still get it sometimes.

It's connected to the railways - 'up' is always the London direction (or towards the largest terminus, if not London), and 'down' is going away from London/largest terminus.

 

[AlinaX]

Yes, that's where you most often still see it, but the tradition I'm sure predates the railways. (You've got me curious now.)

A railway convention would not have a significant influence on wider idiomatic English, but since stagecoaches in the mid-19th Century were using the same convention of up to London, it would make perfect sense for the railways at that time to do similarly.

 

[HordHolm]

Yes, that's where you most often still see it, but the tradition I'm sure predates the railways. (You've got me curious now.)

A railway convention would not have a significant influence on wider idiomatic English, but since stagecoaches in the mid-19th Century were using the same convention of up to London, it would make perfect sense for the railways at that time to do similarly.

Stagecoaches would make sense, and I can imagine the railways copying that.

 

[Seadog777]

In Britain, there was the idea always of going 'up' to London, and you still get it sometimes.

I heard that when I'd visit friends in Dorset and Plymouth.

 

[AlinaX]

I heard that when I'd visit friends in Dorset and Plymouth.

See, it almost makes sense when you're on the south coast, but for northerners like me, it's absurd and absolutely posh nonsense.

 

[Seadog777]

You go up to London.
You can even say "Go over" to London since it's Northeast of Dorset and Plymouth.

I NEVER heard a Brummie say "go up to London"

 

[Kumquatqueen]

You go up to London.
You can even say "Go over" to London since it's Northeast of Dorset and Plymouth.

I NEVER heard a Brummie say "go up to London"

I've known friends and family from round Coventry, Banbury, Warwick who would say going up to London (or That London). And Yorkshiremen going up London (the glottal stop replaces 'to', so up t'London would be rejected by Yorkshire folk while other Brits would understand...)

I suspect that stagecoaches didn't influence the language much as most people would never use them - costly and uncomfortable even when not risky. But the railways democratised travel. Loads of idioms come from rail - wrong side of the tracks, off track, off the rails, hit the buffers, just the ticket, etc. You need the Up and Down line for a railway,unless it's a single track for only one train (or has passing places).

The railways are possibly the only place in the UK where distances are routinely measured in miles and chains.

 

[AlinaX]

I do tend to associate the 'up to London/Oxford/Cambridge' sayers with people that can certainly afford stagecoaches. But, my biases aside, the 'up to London' is likely to have been in wider circulation long before the railways made use of it, e.g., in this rhyme from 1805:

Pussy cat, pussy cat, where have you been?
I've been up to London to look at the queen.

 

[SimonDoom]

In Britain, there was the idea always of going 'up' to London, and you still get it sometimes.

So in the song Going Down To Liverpool, where are they coming from?

 

[AlinaX]

So in the song Going Down To Liverpool, where are they coming from?

I can only speculate, but the writer, Kimberley Rew, was born in Bristol and educated in London and Cambridge, which are all arguably 'uphill' from Liverpool in the UK's social cartography.

 

[ElectricBlue]

So in the song Going Down To Liverpool, where are they coming from?

London

 

[SimonDoom]

I can only speculate, but the writer, Kimberley Rew, was born in Bristol and educated in London and Cambridge, which are all arguably 'uphill' from Liverpool in the UK's social cartography.

I can't think of any directional usage in the US that's the equivalent. Generally up is north and down is south. But we also use the phrases "back East" and "out West." They hearken back to historical migration patterns in the US. The East is "back there" and the West is "out there."

 

[Trionyx]

Using ‘up’ to describe going north is simply being northernhemispherocentric. Search out maps which have south at the top of them. They can be discombobulating, to say the least.

 

[Duleigh]

The past tense of the verb "lie" is "lay", not "laid"!

The past tense of lie is lied. Context is king.

 

[Duleigh]

The past tense of the verb "lie" is "lay", not "laid"!

- Laid is the past tense of Lay
- Lay is the past tense of Lie

It's a little confusing but that's the rule

 

[Seadog777]

I've known friends and family from round Coventry, Banbury, Warwick who would say going up to London (or That London). And Yorkshiremen going up London (the glottal stop replaces 'to', so up t'London would be rejected by Yorkshire folk while other Brits would understand...)

My friend Leslie lives in Warwick and my friend Nikki lives in Yorkshire.
I know that them and their families don't say "up to London".
Granted I don't know everyone, LOL. I'm sure a lot of folks do say it, but this was a pet peeve thread and it's my biggest.
I really do start yelling before I even realize that I am. LOL.
I'd love to visit Warwick and Yorkshire before my life is over.
My dream is to get a railpass and visit all my friends over in the UK and Ireland, one final time.