A pet peeve
- Thread starter hrobbie
- Start date
I read awhile ago that the disctions are going away, and for good reason.
Even though I know it's 'lie down' I always put 'lay down' anyway because it looks better, because 'lie' looks like the other meaning of not telling the truth, which always bothered me.
When i intentionally put 'lay' instead of 'lie,' I often get someone in the comments correcting me about that.
So i've always known that's a small peeve for many.
Even though I know it's 'lie down' I always put 'lay down' anyway because it looks better, because 'lie' looks like the other meaning of not telling the truth, which always bothered me.
When i intentionally put 'lay' instead of 'lie,' I often get someone in the comments correcting me about that.
So i've always known that's a small peeve for many.
MillieDynamite
Millie'sVastExpanse
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Gallagher's dumb words...
ElectricBlue
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Lie versus lay is an English English - American English thing, I think. Neither is wrong, it just depends what country you're in.
Bramblethorn
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But the past tense of the verb "lay" is "laid".
MillieDynamite
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I lay down with my wife and got laid. 
it was quite fun, lots of tongue, fingers, and love, but not a dick between us.
it was quite fun, lots of tongue, fingers, and love, but not a dick between us.It's nitpicky technical stuff. Lie applies to the subject. Lay applies to an object. Lie is intransitive; Lay is transitive. I lie down to take a nap. I lay a book on the table. But they tend to be used interchangeably in practice. I can get them wrong if I'm not paying attention, and I'm a word nerd.
I'll probably catch grief for using tenser as the comparative form of tense in my current piece. It's technically correct, but most people feel more comfortable with more tense, which is also widely accepted, and my default approach. I'm using it with ever tenser, and I like the internal; soft rhyme in the sentence. It gives the sentence an iambic pentameter feel.
But some people will tell me I'm wrong, because the other way feels more natural.
But I never let little things like the rules of English get in the way. I prefer to think them as flexible suggestions. Only if there's a reason though. I don't write sloppy prose for the sake of it.
Bramblethorn
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For me, intransitive "lay" is very much in a grey area. There are parts of the English language where it'd be an error, and others where it's established dialect. I wouldn't use it myself, but for somebody from a background where it's common use, it makes sense to use it in a story and as a reader I wouldn't complain. If anything, it helps distinguish their writing voice.
Bramblethorn
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Call me a philistine, but I always liked the Ministry version better.
It can technically be lay or lied, though lied is archaic, and no one uses it anymore.
It's one of the more confusing verbs. Cut people some slack, unless you're editing for them, or grading their papers. As crimes against grammar go, it's one of the less egregious. It's an easy verb to mess up. People confuse, lie/lay, and it's all downhill from there.
Not saying you're wrong. Just offering a gentler perspective.
Voboy
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You're a philistine.
Actually, not really. I love most Dylan, but that song has always seemed draggy to me. Not a favorite. It's my curse that most of my favorite artists' biggest hits are the songs by them that I personally dislike. I'm looking at you, "How Soon Is Now?" by the Smiths.
I wouldn't use it in most cases. It just isn't a hot button for me when other people do. If I were giving feedback to someone who used it, I'd suggest changing it, but as crises go, there are bigger ones.
12oclocktales
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Here lies Bill, the son of Fred.
He lied alive, and now lies dead.
(Whether he lied about getting laid or lied to himself about it while laying the blame on someone else is unrecorded.)
An advocate of free love is a lay preacher.
He lied alive, and now lies dead.
(Whether he lied about getting laid or lied to himself about it while laying the blame on someone else is unrecorded.)
An advocate of free love is a lay preacher.
Bramblethorn
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Same. I have a lot of time for Dylan but LLL feels kind of... slight? in a way that is greatly improved by a tongue-in-cheek industrial treatment.
There are a couple of bars of "How Soon Is Now" that I appreciate, but all things considered, I saved myself a lot of regret in later life by being a NIN Goth rather than a Smiths Goth.
SimonDoom
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I don't think it's considered "correct" in America. It's not like putting a preposition at the end of a sentence, which is acceptable. Switching lie and lay is not correct. But it's common,especially in music, probably because some think it sounds better. The Brits do it too. Consider Clapton's Lay Down Sally.
Emilymcplugger
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Not a big Dylan fan but my favourite track of his is MOST OF THE TIME.
God, that one rips me apart like a soggy tissue.
alohadave
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Dylan is a better songwriter than singer, IMO. There are many covers of his songs that I like better than his version.
One of his that I really like though is "House of the Rising Sun". It's closer to the folk version and unlike the Animals version that most people cover (though I do love that version too).
ronde
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It also depends upon if the word is in dialogue. Very few people use proper English when speaking, and I never write them that way unless I want to portray them as a pompous ass. My characters always "lay down", are "laid down" or "have laid down" when they're speaking.
