A not so hypothetical

[Calamity Jane]

Suppose that you and your SO had been together for most of your adult life, and that your relationship had been struggling that entire time. Suppose you sat down to have a serious discussion about the why's, mostly so when you do split up, you can figure out where not to fuck up future relationships...

Let's suppose that Spouse #1 was raised to think that marriage was a partnership between two people. That those people made agreements, reached decisions together, and respected the work that the other did. Spouse #1 knows that the relationship model works, because it's worked for his/her parents for the past 25 years.

Let's suppose that Spouse #2 was raised to think that marriage is more of an agreement between to people in which one spouse retains control and the other takes their cues from that person. Discussions don't happen, because the 'rightness' of the controlling partner is taken as fact. Spouse #2 knows that this model works, because it's worked for his/her parents for the past 30 years.

Assuming that neither model is more 'correct' or 'healthy' than the other... is there a compromise that these two people could reach? Spouse #1 is never going to feel comfortable with the relationship model that makes Spouse #2 feel secure, and the reverse is also true.

 

[Vilac]

Spouse #1 is never going to feel comfortable with the relationship model that makes Spouse #2 feel secure, and the reverse is also true.

Seems like you've answered your own question, here.

I'm sure it's not the answer you're looking for...but regardless, there it is.

Best of luck, pcg.
V~

 

[Guest]

I agree with Vilac. I'm beginning to believe that people, at the core, do not change. Behaviors and beliefs can be modified- with work, effort, and the want.

I'm not sure how to give you an answer that will help, darlin. I believe in compromise, but I'm not sure all issues can achieve such.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: A not so hypothetical

Seems like you've answered your own question, here.

I'm sure it's not the answer you're looking for...but regardless, there it is.

Best of luck, pcg.
V~

Perhaps I should rephrase...

Is there a relationship model that is a compromise between the two? While neither is comfortable with the models that the other spouse's parents provided, is there perhaps a middle ground between the two extremes?

 

[Guest]

Not so much advice as an observation

 

[Lancecastor]

Seems to me there's a middle ground to be explored by both of you, where a New Thing can be built.

A leader as in #2 can only lead if the leadership is undertaken out of love for #1 primarily and #2 secondarily....otherwise #1 isn't going to follow and #2 is a poor leader.

Interestingly, the stuff in the Bible that often gets maligned about wives "obeying" husbands is in fact more like the paragraph above.

A marriage is a partnership wherein each is the steward of the other's heart as each is also unto their own.

Somewhere between the two positions you've illustrated is that place that brought you to each other.

I'd recommend the two of you set out together in that direction and wish you well in your continued travels.

Lance

 

[Vilac]

Re: Re: Re: A not so hypothetical

Perhaps I should rephrase...

Is there a relationship model that is a compromise between the two? While neither is comfortable with the models that the other spouse's parents provided, is there perhaps a middle ground between the two extremes?

a preface to that question would/should be: Are both parties *willing to accept some type of "compromise".(*if there is one) Speaking out of my own experience, (and hard-headedness) not always are both people willing to bend to make an already strained relationship work.

I still hope you find what you're looking for, pcg. <g>
V~

 

[LordMagicMan]

I would say its just a fundamental difference. When peoples opinions don't fit, there is conflict. Only way things will change is if someone gives in, but the chances after this long are very slim.

 

[Lancecastor]

On a more practical note, I read an article recently about a married couple who stumbled upon the notion of odd/even days.

On Even numbered days of the month, She is Always Right.

On Odd numbered days, He is.

They go about their lives as usual....and when they run into one of those stupid recurrring marriage grinding arguments about buying this or that, who drives who where, whose relatives to visit, what color looks best in the living roome, etc etc...they remember the date and one of them gets to decide, no questions, no argument.



Lance

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I can't make a call here, because I come down firmly in the camp of Spouse #1, but I do notice that the relationship has been struggling for most of its span, which bodes ill for things ever working out.

 

[TWB]

On a more practical note, I read an article recently about a married couple who stumbled upon the notion of odd/even days.

On Even numbered days of the month, She is Always Right.

On Odd numbered days, He is.

They go about their lives as usual....and when they run into one of those stupid recurrring marriage grinding arguments about buying this or that, who drives who where, whose relatives to visit, what color looks best in the living roome, etc etc...they remember the date and one of them gets to decide, no questions, no argument.



Lance

Don't they just save shit up till their "right" day?

 

[Calamity Jane]

Don't they just save shit up till their "right" day?

LOL

"Gee honey, today would be a great day to buy a new truck, paint the house, buy new carpet, have tbones for dinner, see that new chick flick, drop the kids off at your parent's house instead of mine, and think about breeding my horse to that stud I looked at last week, wouldn't it?"

Lance, I know that neither model is 'perfect' and I'm also aware of the problems within both actual marriages. Howeer, the fact that these people are still married, seem to like each other, and crave time spent together, is a good indicator that the relationships they're in are working.

 

[Guest]

This is why me date me girl long time.

 

[Lancecastor]

LOL

"Gee honey, today would be a great day to buy a new truck, paint the house, buy new carpet, have tbones for dinner, see that new chick flick, drop the kids off at your parent's house instead of mine, and think about breeding my horse to that stud I looked at last week, wouldn't it?"

Lance, I know that neither model is 'perfect' and I'm also aware of the problems within both actual marriages. Howeer, the fact that these people are still married, seem to like each other, and crave time spent together, is a good indicator that the relationships they're in are working.

I don't think that engineering decisions to "your" day is what was intended, silly geese!

*oy*

In your second paragraph it sounds like you're talking about two other people in two separate marriages....maybe they all just need a week in Jamaica away from the kids, but it sounds like it's all worth the effort.

Lance

 

[Freya]

How pathetic that the first few responses to this were people saying there's no way to mend the problem. And we wonder why there's such a high divorce rate?


Having never been married, I'm sure my advice will suck donkey balls, but in any compromise, you have to find the common ground, as well as discover which issues either person is absolutely unbendable on. Once you know what you and your spouse are firm about, you work on the other issues. This isn't making near as much sense as it does in my head, but decide what areas you're willing to compromise, which areas you aren't. I'd think that after each of you realize that compromising isn't going to do irreparable harm, you might just discover that you're a little more willing to bend on those you considered yourself firm on.

 

[Calamity Jane]

In your second paragraph it sounds like you're talking about two other people in two separate marriages....maybe they all just need a week in Jamaica away from the kids, but it sounds like it's all worth the effort.

Lance

I was talking about different people. The ones in the quote above are the parents of the people currently contemplating divorce. They're the 'models'.

Freya... I think part of the reason there's such a high divorce rate is that we're taught certain things about relationships. Everything is Disneyfied... we honestly believe that just loving someone is enough to make a relationship work.

Also, there's less stigma atached to divorce now than there used to be. You'd be shocked how many people I've talked to that never knew their grandparents or great grandparents had been divorced. It was pushed under the carpet. I wonder if it's more common now, or simply more public.

 

[curious2c]

There have been some insightful answers to your question PCG, I do have a bit to add.

Having been married 23 years, I can say that it takes work on BOTH partners halves. They BOTH have to want the relationship to succeed.

When we first got married, my wife was the type of woman who wanted 'her man' to take care of her and make all the decisions. I grew up thinking that the 'couple' should make joint decisions. This caused much trouble at first. Eventually we both worked out our differences and got 'comfortable' with each other. Now we both have input to all decisions made, but my wife still leaves the final decision up to me. Usually, we both know what the decision will be.

In todays hectic and often stressful life it is hard to be a couple. So much is expected of each person at work and at home. I have found the best policy for our relationship is to pitch in and work together. This means that I do housework when I am home. This also means that my wife takes care of household business while I am away at work.

I believe in the sharing of all aspects of the relationship and it has worked for us over the years. Now, if I could only jumpstart her sex drive...I would have the perfect marriage.

 

[Freya]

I was talking about different people. The ones in the quote above are the parents of the people currently contemplating divorce. They're the 'models'.

Freya... I think part of the reason there's such a high divorce rate is that we're taught certain things about relationships. Everything is Disneyfied... we honestly believe that just loving someone is enough to make a relationship work.

Also, there's less stigma atached to divorce now than there used to be. You'd be shocked how many people I've talked to that never knew their grandparents or great grandparents had been divorced. It was pushed under the carpet. I wonder if it's more common now, or simply more public.

And it seems as though there's a basic unwillingness to work things out. "Oh, that's much too hard, it just won't work" How sad is that? If you're going to marry someone, at least attempt every possible solution before giving up on the problem. It's nice to see that your attitude is not like that PCG.

 

[Mia62]

Re: Re: Re: A not so hypothetical

Perhaps I should rephrase...

Is there a relationship model that is a compromise between the two? While neither is comfortable with the models that the other spouse's parents provided, is there perhaps a middle ground between the two extremes?

Yes...stay married but live in different houses.

 

[Lancecastor]

the people currently contemplating divorce.

I think it's too bad they're throwing in the towel.

My advice to them for the future:

If you're going to get married, every day calls for a fresh promise to your partner, the marriage and yourself.

 

[jeff_is_smiling]

Wow...great question....

having no experience in WORKING relationships, take what I write (should you even read it...lol) with a couple thousand grains of salt....but here goes...

When I was married and seeing counseling, the counselor gave me a little nugget of advice. Nothing earth-shaking here, but it opened my eyes when I actually tried it. The counsel was to have an open discussion, in a certain manner, where each person had some finite amount of time to express what was meaningful to them in a relationship.

The caveate was that the term, "relationship" had nothing to do with feelings about the other person. It was more of an "administrative" view of a relationship. Things like, "What do you see as your role in a relationship?" and "What specific tasks do you have concern for in a relationship?"...those type questions.

In your hypothetical example, that discussion with spouse # 2 (the one that get cues from the more dominant spouse) would be very revealing I think. If asked what tasks and roles they see themselves in when in a relationship, I think you might set the boundaries for areas they are NOT to take any cues from the other person. These areas might be off-limits to criticism or comment, while those areas NOT described as meaningful to them can be "administered" by the other, or divied up as necessary.

When I mentioned a finite amount of time, that technique was special as well. There were unlimited numbers of chances to speak up, but the chances alternated between the two people, but each chance had a finite amount of time (to prevent age-old arguements from re-emerging).

Not sure this helps at all...hope it all goes well......hypothetically....

 

[ma_guy]

I think there is a middle ground that can be reached. No one person is absolute at everything. We tend to see the "family" of yesteryear where the farther figure ran the show and mom just sat home and did nothing but I think that's a bit skewed.

In most cases the father figure had control of things like the garage, the car and the lawn. Mom had control over the running of the household on a daily basis, choosiing things like the doctor/dentist, etc..

The perceptions of those roles changed through the last 40 or 50 years but the basic guide is still there. Discuss what areas each is responsible for. I'd bet if they look those who think the controlling spouse runs everything will find quite a few areas that the "controlling spouse" doesn't even know exist. That's were I'd focus the discussion if I was in the middle of that situation.. Who actually does what in the marriage.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A not so hypothetical

Yes...stay married but live in different houses.

Ugh, no thanks. I'm an all or nothin kind of girl.

 

[Guest]

 

[Rambling Rose]

Just a guess here but you're Spouse #1, right?