A Higher Chat Thread
- Thread starter higherlevel4u
- Start date
midwestyankee
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2003
- Posts
- 32,076
DLL said:i loved happy gillmore for funny lines too....
I like the crocodile and Bob Barker best.
higherlevel4u
RIP Literotica
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2003
- Posts
- 137,532
Thought for the day: Friday
President George W Bush has signed into law a measure that will expand the rights of the unborn child.
In an elaborate ceremony at the White House, Mr Bush approved the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.
The new legislation makes it a crime to harm a foetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Opponents say the move is an attempt to erode women's rights to abortion, but supporters say its aim is merely to protect the unborn child.
President Bush, flanked by the families of women who had been killed while pregnant, spoke eloquently in a televised ceremony about why he was supporting this bill.
He said it was an attempt to address the fact that a crime against a pregnant woman often has two victims - and therefore two offences to be punished.
What do you think of this, my American friends (especially the ladies)?
President George W Bush has signed into law a measure that will expand the rights of the unborn child.
In an elaborate ceremony at the White House, Mr Bush approved the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.
The new legislation makes it a crime to harm a foetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Opponents say the move is an attempt to erode women's rights to abortion, but supporters say its aim is merely to protect the unborn child.
President Bush, flanked by the families of women who had been killed while pregnant, spoke eloquently in a televised ceremony about why he was supporting this bill.
He said it was an attempt to address the fact that a crime against a pregnant woman often has two victims - and therefore two offences to be punished.
What do you think of this, my American friends (especially the ladies)?
Last edited:
capricious_chic
Yes
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2002
- Posts
- 18,792
Hello all.
Higher - While many fear that this bill is just a stepping stone to once again try to outlaw abortion, it really isn't a cause for concern yet. The way the bill is written specifies that it is in effect "while in the commission of a federal crime". Abortion isn't considered a crime.
This law could be used to try to overturn Roe vs. Wade - but not very successfully as it states: "It would specifically exclude prosecution of legally performed abortions — a fact supporters cite in arguing that the bill would not undermine the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision affirming a woman's right to end a pregnancy."
While I don't think that abortion should be illegal and I fully support a womans choice - I do think that it is and should be a punishable offense to end the the life of an unborn child through acts that are against the woman and her wishes.
My contribution for this morning - off to work. Have a wonderful day.
Higher - While many fear that this bill is just a stepping stone to once again try to outlaw abortion, it really isn't a cause for concern yet. The way the bill is written specifies that it is in effect "while in the commission of a federal crime". Abortion isn't considered a crime.
This law could be used to try to overturn Roe vs. Wade - but not very successfully as it states: "It would specifically exclude prosecution of legally performed abortions — a fact supporters cite in arguing that the bill would not undermine the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision affirming a woman's right to end a pregnancy."
While I don't think that abortion should be illegal and I fully support a womans choice - I do think that it is and should be a punishable offense to end the the life of an unborn child through acts that are against the woman and her wishes.
My contribution for this morning - off to work. Have a wonderful day.
higherlevel4u
RIP Literotica
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2003
- Posts
- 137,532
capricious_chic said:
Thanks for your input, CC ......
My view?
Yes, on the surface, I can't argue with the principle ..... but on the other hand I also think abortion shouldn't be a criminal offense. At the end of the day, it is the woman's body and there are many circumstances where she might end up pregnant and, for whatever reason, not want the baby, and in such cases, I think an abortion, if wanted, should be an option for her.
You have a good day, CC .....
done_got_old
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2003
- Posts
- 269,162
Good morning Higher, how are you today? Wonderful, I hope.
Cathleen
Summer breeze...
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2004
- Posts
- 31,006
Re: Thought for the day: Friday
Thanks for the opportunity to consider such an important and weighty matter!
Good morning from here!
going to have to wake a moment or two before I wrap my brain around this one Higher....... I am so very conflicted on this issue.....my heart and brain have been fighting this for the last few years.......when I was younger I was very clearly pro choice.....I am finding as I gain the years, my view has become conflicting in my soul....... I will have to come back to this after I wake!higherlevel4u said:President George W Bush has signed into law a measure that will expand the rights of the unborn child.
In an elaborate ceremony at the White House, Mr Bush approved the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.
The new legislation makes it a crime to harm a foetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Opponents say the move is an attempt to erode women's rights to abortion, but supporters say its aim is merely to protect the unborn child.
President Bush, flanked by the families of women who had been killed while pregnant, spoke eloquently in a televised ceremony about why he was supporting this bill.
He said it was an attempt to address the fact that a crime against a pregnant woman often has two victims - and therefore two offences to be punished.
What do you think of this, my American friends (especially the ladies)?
Thanks for the opportunity to consider such an important and weighty matter!
Good morning from here!
SecretScribe
The TC Bartender
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2002
- Posts
- 12,758
Ok ... first let me state that I am in my cups ... ergo ... not at the height of my mental prowess (which is to say ... sadly undermanned)
however ...
you know ... in some ways I'm not very liberal ... for those who commit violent crimes against women (pregnant or not) ... you know I'm not a liberal in this case ... elimination is my answer .. full well knowing that it is not a perfect answer and that mistakes will be made.
That said ... I do not like this law one bit. I feel it is a purely political move to erode the right to abortion. I am a man. I do not feel it is my right to decide whether abortion is right or wrong (I have my opinions .. but I do not feel I have the right to decide because I will never be put in the position to decide). This is one of the very few areas where I feel that this is not universal question, but rather a question for women alone to decide. I feel it is a women's right to decide. If it comes to a societal decision to allow or disallow, I feel that only women should decide this question. Men do not have the background, nor the risk ...
however ...
you know ... in some ways I'm not very liberal ... for those who commit violent crimes against women (pregnant or not) ... you know I'm not a liberal in this case ... elimination is my answer .. full well knowing that it is not a perfect answer and that mistakes will be made.
That said ... I do not like this law one bit. I feel it is a purely political move to erode the right to abortion. I am a man. I do not feel it is my right to decide whether abortion is right or wrong (I have my opinions .. but I do not feel I have the right to decide because I will never be put in the position to decide). This is one of the very few areas where I feel that this is not universal question, but rather a question for women alone to decide. I feel it is a women's right to decide. If it comes to a societal decision to allow or disallow, I feel that only women should decide this question. Men do not have the background, nor the risk ...
higherlevel4u
RIP Literotica
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2003
- Posts
- 137,532
done_got_old said:Good morning Higher, how are you today? Wonderful, I hope.
I'm very well, thanks, DGO ...... hopefully I find you in the same condition?
SecretScribe
The TC Bartender
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2002
- Posts
- 12,758
Cate ... sadly ... when I am not in my cups you will probably hear nothing ... because I invite detraction from every angle. On the one hand I am unabashedly pro death penalty. I do feel that there are crimes where the only reasonable recourse is death and I am well aware that this penalty can not be inflicted with 100 per cent accuracy (even were we to allow the most advanced methods of extracting the truth). That is a conservative viewpoint, to say the least.Cathleen said:well, when you come out of your cups.... I will be anxious to hear more!!!
On the other hand, I espouse the solution that abortion, and abortion rights be left solely in the hands of women; that men have no standing whatsoever in this discussion (other than as mutual and equal participants in a marriage relationship) ... an extremely liberal viewpoint.
The point being that given the fact that each of my positions is antagonistic to a large part of the populace ... I do not often speak openly on either of them ... other than when I am ... "in my cups"
Cathleen
Summer breeze...
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2004
- Posts
- 31,006
First, allow me to say, you have such a nice command of the written language. Very clear and concise as well.SecretScribe said:
I have found my views on this issue, as well as many others, has changed very much as I grow older. The old adage that if you're not a libral at twenty you have no heart and not a conservative at forty you have no head!!
I do not support the death penalty, I can't find justification for its use. I have been the victim of different crimes, and still, I can not get to the point of taking the life. ( I don't want to pay to incarceate them either!! I wish we could put these people to use fixing some of our housekeeping matters...but that is way off topic.) I just can not find the place where I or any other person can make that decision, and I pray I never will be asked to do so.
As for abortion, again, years ago, I was very pro-choice. Knowing full well, that at a young age, I would not be prepared for motherhood, it was an option given to me. However, again, I have changed on this issue as well. I waffle between wanting to keep the option available and knowing full well for me it could never be an option. I just could not do it. Deep in my soul I know I could not do it. Now, do I have the right to tell others they can not? I do not think so. So you see, I am conflicted there.
I find it interesting that you are unwavering with your believe that you do not have a right in this issue. I believe you do, in the manner to which you would be involved. I truly believe in the oneness of our human exsistance, the bond we all have with one another. But I do understand your point and yes, even agree, that it is ultimately my body, and the consequence are mine as well. Rather unfair sometimes I think.
SouthernBelle22
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Posts
- 803
Cathleen said:
I don't find that odd at all Cate. I feel exactly the same and I am in my mid twenties. I had a scare about a year ago where I thought a one night stand was going to cause me to be linked to this man for the rest of my life. I am sad to admit that I considered the option and that alone scared me. I've coem to consider that night very close to consentual rape...I put myself in the position for that night to happen but I didn't want it to. I take my responsibility for it, but I did not remotely desire to have that man forever linked to me. However, needless to say it was a false alarm, I considered not having that option at all and I decided that there are women out there who have to make a choice of whether or not they can live with the decision they make. I am not going to add to that by condemning them their choice. I'm not a big fan of the male not having any say so in the situation, but I think there is a danger of it becoming a control issue with the man involved (not that it isn't entirely with just the woman, a control issue that is).
As for the proposed bill higher...going to have to say that I think Bush is right on this one with the belief that two people have been attacked not just one and therefore both should have the day in court. However, where are they defining the life existence...I'd have to say that you'd have to look at the definition of Roe v wade and make sure the definitions don't contradict each other and therefore leave a door open to take abortion off the legalized list so to speak.
higherlevel4u
RIP Literotica
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2003
- Posts
- 137,532
Hi there Belle ...... always good to see you
Yes, I can't argue with the merits of the bill as a stand-alone issue ...... I just wonder sometimes, like others, where Bush is going. I'm sure at the end of the day he would make abortion illegal throughout the States at the drop of a hat. Having said that, it would all depend on what his backers thought, wouldn't it? The money men that keep him in office? And they tend to be very conservative types ..... so I think banning abortion would be high on their lists ...... don't you?
Please feel free to correct me on these issues, after all, I'm a Brit commenting on the US, but giving my honest views as I see things from across this side of the Atlantic.
Yes, I can't argue with the merits of the bill as a stand-alone issue ...... I just wonder sometimes, like others, where Bush is going. I'm sure at the end of the day he would make abortion illegal throughout the States at the drop of a hat. Having said that, it would all depend on what his backers thought, wouldn't it? The money men that keep him in office? And they tend to be very conservative types ..... so I think banning abortion would be high on their lists ...... don't you?
Please feel free to correct me on these issues, after all, I'm a Brit commenting on the US, but giving my honest views as I see things from across this side of the Atlantic.
Cathleen
Summer breeze...
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2004
- Posts
- 31,006
Re: Thought for the day: Friday
As for being a political move, of course!!! Everything is from day one in office!! I dispise election years...... too much trash, no substance and really no power to change things.
Having re-read the statement, I totally agree with this premise.... for, I believe that the unborn entity is in fact a human. Therefore any harm to that human needs to be addressed. Looking at the Lacey Peterson case is a prime example that that child is dead and someone needs to be held accountable for that action, as well as for the death of Lacey herself.higherlevel4u said:President George W Bush has signed into law a measure that will expand the rights of the unborn child.
In an elaborate ceremony at the White House, Mr Bush approved the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.
The new legislation makes it a crime to harm a foetus during an attack on a pregnant woman.
Opponents say the move is an attempt to erode women's rights to abortion, but supporters say its aim is merely to protect the unborn child.
President Bush, flanked by the families of women who had been killed while pregnant, spoke eloquently in a televised ceremony about why he was supporting this bill.
He said it was an attempt to address the fact that a crime against a pregnant woman often has two victims - and therefore two offences to be punished.
What do you think of this, my American friends (especially the ladies)?
As for being a political move, of course!!! Everything is from day one in office!! I dispise election years...... too much trash, no substance and really no power to change things.
Cathleen
Summer breeze...
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2004
- Posts
- 31,006
I do not belive abortion will ever become illegal in this country..... it may in word only....but doctors/providers will always be able to do "procedures" that would result in abortion.higherlevel4u said:Hi there Belle ...... always good to see you
Yes, I can't argue with the merits of the bill as a stand-alone issue ...... I just wonder sometimes, like others, where Bush is going. I'm sure at the end of the day he would make abortion illegal throughout the States at the drop of a hat. Having said that, it would all depend on what his backers thought, wouldn't it? The money men that keep him in office? And they tend to be very conservative types ..... so I think banning abortion would be high on their lists ...... don't you?
Please feel free to correct me on these issues, after all, I'm a Brit commenting on the US, but giving my honest views as I see things from across this side of the Atlantic.
SouthernBelle22
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2000
- Posts
- 803
I'd have to agree with Cate on that one....there will always be a way, but yes as a political move it would be a desire high on the list (hell, Bush did put Ashcroft the antichrist as far as I am concerned on his cabinet) But I think that there would be a huge public outcry if it looked like Roe v Wade was in serious threat of being overturned. Women everywhere would have to rethink their stance and ask whether or not they want to have rights that so many fought for just taken away. I think you would see women realizing that it was too big of a battle to just let it happen without a fight.
