A few dating questions (WILL HUGELY APPRECIATE A WOMAN'S OPINION)

[chizzledman]

I'm a university student and I mostly interact with girls on campus since it's easier to connect with fellow students not to mention I've never been with a girl (including me being a boyfriend), so it's good practice for me to connect with girls of my own age range. It might be helpful to know that I haven't had a lot of good practice flirting mainly because it doesn't come naturally to me and in the experiences I've had (mostly from middle school) the girls only said "can we be friends". I was more actively seeking a girlfriend then because I had no experience, but because the rejections did not give any good feedback, I didn't know what I was doing wrong. This isn't to say I don't try now, but it's super awkward to approach any of the girls in a public setting like a dining hall if I've never met them before. This approach leaves me with the following settings to look for potential dates: classes and clubs. Not too many options also considering that most of the clubs don't sound interesting to me. Not to sound like a cynical person, but I often don't find things very interesting about girls unless they share at least one common interest with me. I mean I've heard of flirting strategies online that say I should "look and sound interested" when a girl's talking, which I do but that's very difficult for me keep doing if she's not interesting. In case you haven't picked it up by now, I'm a fairly introverted kind of person.
Most of the time, now, when a girl says something about herself, for which I could potentially tease her, I don't say anything because to me I don't see anything that needs to be said in return...she's simply stated something...but that's because I've had unhelpful practice. That's how bad I am at flirting. Anyways, within the last year I'd say there were two girls I had met that I felt I could potentially go out with both of which I learned are bisexual. I have a couple questions: Do you think the game plan changes for flirting and asking her on a date if the woman is bisexual? BTW, I'm straight.

Can you give me some advice on how I can get better flirting practice? And before you say "go hang out at parties" I must tell you that I'm uninterested in the stereotypical college party and alcohol consumption. I'll drink alcohol, but only if it tastes good otherwise I don't see the point. Man, the first time I had whiskey I was tricked as a kid by a relative to try some apple juice and I hated the flavor, but more interestingly when I turned 21 and poured myself about 1 oz. of whiskey I took a tiny tiny sip and I still hated the taste.
To be honest I'm pretty confident with myself image and I do have a sense of humor, but I think those bad middle school experiences fucked my mind up in terms of dating strategies. Any comments would be appreciated.

-Phil

 

[chizzledman]

To summarize, I never knew in high school how to talk to girls and that has extended into college.

 

[mentionME]

well if girls want to befriend you then you're half way there. Just be friendly, and wait on positive feedback. If you're already confident, humorous, and a "chizzledman" then all you really need is to be able to differentiate a friend from an interested lady.

in short, worry less about flirting and more about the differences between a friend request and a come on. In college the male:female ratio is in your favor.

*bisexual women* = completely unnecessary fact for you to care about at the moment. All that matters is that she likes you. so proceed as normal.

and if you find women boring you should become the star in your interactions. find a girl that knows she's boring or is traditional. either will let u play the lead, though you'll find its also hard playing the conversation-starter.

 

[easyluckyfree]

Hey there. I'm your age and in college as well, so I think I could offer some advice. The first thing might sound a bit cliché, but I find it to be true. When talking to a girl that you see potential in, the best thing to do (IMO) is not to flirt too much. Just be yourself. Girls love to laugh and see the light in people, so make clever remarks and banter about things in your surroundings that amuse you. We are very easily put off by overbearing men who try too hard. Girls also love confidence. Of course, being confident is easier said than done, but it's easy to fake it until you believe it. It's ok to be a little shy. Heck, most of us are a little shy as well.

As for finding girls with common interests, I might suggest joining a club or team that appeals to you. If you love tennis, join the tennis club. If you love videogames, join a gaming club. The great thing about universities is that there are boundless ways to find events and groups of people that are all about the things you love.

I don't want to ramble on your thread, so I'll sum it up with a tried and true statement: Be yourself. Chances are, there's a lady or two out there that will love that self.

 

[glynndah]

Drinking really isn't necessary, either.

Be open to meeting someone anywhere, not just in the standard pick-up spots. Smile, make eye contact and say hello. Even if she's not that into you, her friend just may be.

 

[chizzledman]

mentionME, what are some ways to differentiate a friend from an interested lady?

Thanks for the advice mentionME, easyluckyfree, and glynndah. I'll keep checking for more advice.

 

[emap]

Interested women will touch you, laugh at your jokes, no matter how silly and make eye contact. I think there are articles around about this but from what I remember of said articles and what I do, an interested woman will turn to face you, she will smile, she will not cross her arms, she will play with her hair, toss her hair and in certain instances uncross her legs and leave them uncrossed. Generally her knees will get farther apart, though that last one is more of I want you atop me now and probably is not thinking of more than sex.

Bisexual women are not different from straight women, you would flirt with her the same way you flirt with a straight woman.

Otherwise what has been said, those flirt techniques you mentioned are not for girlfriends, those are pretty much only for guys who want one night stands. I mean seriously, do you really think any woman who starts talking to you after you say something like I've lost my number can I have yours is after anything but sex?

Trust me on this one, the only time I ever see those working is after a few to several drinks and her inhibitions are gone, she's thinking he's kinda cute let's see what he's like in bed. I've been there and seen it, being a waitress in a bar/club has certain perks. Which are generally of no use but there are uses for them every once in a long while.

As was said before, be yourself, don't try and impress anybody, that only leads you to short relationships, usually no more than 6 months.

 

[coastal-boy]

argue for your limitations and so they shall be yours.

I read your post...I read about "it doesn't come natural", "I've had bad experiences", "I had no experience", "rejections didn't provide feedback", "it's awkward", "clubs aren't interesting", "I'm not cynical, but...", "girl must share something interesting with me", "it's difficult", "I'm introverted", "I don't say anything that doesn't need to be said", "I've had unhelpful practice", "girls I'm interested in are bisexual"...fuck dude I don't know where to start. It is a mind set. You have a thousand excuses and they have convinced you that you can't.

Ask one out. Go someplace safe and easy...like an art museum. You can talk about anything there. But as long as you think of it as a "date", I think your attitude will subconciously destroy it. Instead, think of it as an "experience". Hey, Melissa...I have been thinking of catching the Raphael "Woman with a veil" exhibit ( http://portlandartmuseum.org/exhibitions/feature/Raphael-The-Woman-with-the-Veil ) at the Portland Art Museum. It is one of the most important paintings from the Renaissance Period and I wondered if you would like to come with me?"

Instead of putting the pressure on her to find the "commonality" between you, this simply opens the door to an opportunity to talk. And talk is good.

or better yet...this one http://portlandartmuseum.org/exhibitions/feature/DISQUIETED

 

[candyshellcomet]

truncated

Interested women will touch you, laugh at your jokes, no matter how silly and make eye contact. I think there are articles around about this but from what I remember of said articles and what I do, an interested woman will turn to face you, she will smile, she will not cross her arms, she will play with her hair, toss her hair and in certain instances uncross her legs and leave them uncrossed. Generally her knees will get farther apart, though that last one is more of I want you atop me now and probably is not thinking of more than sex.

I wanted to add a couple of other indicators in terms of body language to Emap's list. Most times when someone is interested in getting to know you, they will also involuntarily lean in closer to you, mirror what you say/paraphrase, and their pupils dilate. You'll know genuine curiosity when it's speaking to you/asking you questions about yourself lol

You may want to register for an interpersonal communications course if it's offered at your school. That could give you some insight

 

[chizzledman]

Coastal-boy, I'm glad you're criticizing me because it gives me another perspective. You're probably right in that it's a mindset, I am still trying to get over irrationality. Sometimes I will even think about how there's nothing to lose from just trying, but I just ditch it in the end usually because I'm so used to it. This response isn't an excuse for what I wrote, but merely an agreement. That said, here are some things I've tried and they didn't work, so maybe I can get some feedback: After class one day I told this from the same class that I would be visiting the museum of science and asked if you would like to join me. I had previously conversed with her. As I said the Museum of Science I could see her eyes light up with interest, but she said she was going to her cousin's Bat Mitzvah the same weekend. I probably should've talked to her more and asked again another time, but I don't know why I didn't. Anyways, do you think I should try this approach again on someone else?

After becoming acquaintances and talking more with this one girl in my high school course, I invited her to watch a movie at my house, but she provided a neutral response. First of all, I love movies and especially the one I invited her to watch (Amadeus) because she was a ballet dancer so I figured here's a movie we could enjoy together. Well, it wasn't until around finals that this was all happening and finally got the nerve to call her house when I finished finals since I didn't have her cell. I never spoke to her over the phone; only to her sisters and they kept saying she was at the mall, so I kept calling back to try again. Eventually I realized she didn't want to hang out, but to this day I don't know what went wrong. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll keep everything in mind.

 

[Wife of Bath]

Well, if you have a hard time talking with girls at clubs or in class, consider joining an intramural team or come kind of club on campus- there is always a niche for every person. Once you've done a few activities with the group, you wiill probably feel comfortable enough and know that you have common interests with some of the ladies in the group. Make it about doing something outside of the group, but not a date. For instance, if you joined a climbing club, 'Hey Allison, want to go hit this crag with me next weekend? I heard it's awesome.'. Get the gist?

 

[coastal-boy]

Coastal-boy, I'm glad you're criticizing me because it gives me another perspective. You're probably right in that it's a mindset, I am still trying to get over irrationality. Sometimes I will even think about how there's nothing to lose from just trying, but I just ditch it in the end usually because I'm so used to it. This response isn't an excuse for what I wrote, but merely an agreement. That said, here are some things I've tried and they didn't work, so maybe I can get some feedback: After class one day I told this from the same class that I would be visiting the museum of science and asked if you would like to join me. I had previously conversed with her. As I said the Museum of Science I could see her eyes light up with interest, but she said she was going to her cousin's Bat Mitzvah the same weekend. I probably should've talked to her more and asked again another time, but I don't know why I didn't. Anyways, do you think I should try this approach again on someone else?

After becoming acquaintances and talking more with this one girl in my high school course, I invited her to watch a movie at my house, but she provided a neutral response. First of all, I love movies and especially the one I invited her to watch (Amadeus) because she was a ballet dancer so I figured here's a movie we could enjoy together. Well, it wasn't until around finals that this was all happening and finally got the nerve to call her house when I finished finals since I didn't have her cell. I never spoke to her over the phone; only to her sisters and they kept saying she was at the mall, so I kept calling back to try again. Eventually I realized she didn't want to hang out, but to this day I don't know what went wrong. Any thoughts?

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll keep everything in mind.

She probably did have a Bat Mitzvah...never cross a Jewish woman. You are right, you should have asked again. Sometimes it is easier to not put a date on it and just have something to do...I have been thinking of doing this (that tells her you are planning on doing it anyway...takes the pressure off), would you like to go? Then leave it to her to pick a time or give her a couple available timeslots.

I think that a movie would be too uncomfortable...too much silence time. Movies are great for people who are already dating, but not for catching someone's attention. Dude...it is winter...take her skating...take her skiing...take her sledding if you are back east...they just got 20 inches. There are a million things that can be done. The key is that isn't perceived as a date...just a fucking good time. As to went went wrong? Maybe nothing...she probably had a bf back home.

Well, if you have a hard time talking with girls at clubs or in class, consider joining an intramural team or come kind of club on campus- there is always a niche for every person. Once you've done a few activities with the group, you wiill probably feel comfortable enough and know that you have common interests with some of the ladies in the group. Make it about doing something outside of the group, but not a date. For instance, if you joined a climbing club, 'Hey Allison, want to go hit this crag with me next weekend? I heard it's awesome.'. Get the gist?

EXACTLY!!! (ME: ) I would love to go but I have to show up to my cousin's Bat Mitzvah on Saturday and she would literally cut me to pieces if I don't show. Could we do it on Sunday instead? I'm not the greatest but I do know my knots and so I wouldn't be a total dufus. (ALLISON: ) Really? Just what kind of knots do you know? (ME: ) Well I was a boy scout and I always try to be prepared...so I can do most simple bondage restraints as well as your standard figure-8 and a one-handed bowline

I think you should know that it is actually quite common to be turned down. It isn't about the person asking...it is usually about where the person who is being asked is.

 

[Epmd607]

I don't think anyone's going to say anything besides for be confident and be funny. Man, in college a girl will smile at you on your way to class, dorm, dining hall, anywhere -- if you have your head up and don't look like you want to crawl behind a dumpster and die. Master the greeting, say hi to everyone you recognize vaguely. After that you just gotta figure out what trick works for you. Joining stuff you're not into is a waste, they'll figure out you're not into PETA and Post-Feminism. Girls at 19 and 20 need to be entertained a little. I've always had a good memory for people, if I recognize someone I'll tell them why and where from. That usually turns into a whole conversation. It's really just up to you to figure out how to get a female to agree to spend time with you. Even after getting married I'm still using those tricks I developed in school. Man is an entertainer and receptive females are easily entertained. Don't do magic tricks though.

 

[sunandshadow]

I do think clubs and school-sponsored social activities are the best place to meet people in university, other than bars (I also detest the taste of alcohol, unless it's super-sweet) and classes. My university for example had craft night I think every other week, and you could go and make a little jewelry box or whatever, and it was always a good excuse to sit at a table with random people and strike up a question about what you were working on. Any kind of art activity like that is probably going to be mostly girls, similarly if there is a literary magazine, or even something like a knitting circle. When I was looking for guys the board game club and the science fiction society were great for me. Anime club and creative anachronism club were a fairly even mix of male and female.

 

[littlebabyclit]

.....Man, in college a girl will smile at you on your way to class, dorm, dining hall, anywhere -- if you have your head up and don't look like you want to crawl behind a dumpster and die......It's really just up to you to figure out how to get a female to agree to spend time with you. Even after getting married I'm still using those tricks I developed in school. Man is an entertainer and receptive females are easily entertained. Don't do magic tricks though.

Ha! And I am entertained by that post. Very funny and so very true! LOL

May I suggest to the OP, how about hangin' in Barnes in Noble or other bookstores with cafes? Much bettah than bars, to meet the intelligent and those who like to read.
Great, informal atmosphere. Find the girl of your dreams in the aisle with the kind of books you like to read. If I was single, lemme tell ya.... that's where I'd be found, checking out the guys.

 

[KokopelliRises]

Only once did I meet someone significant (to me) as a woman in college (I still am) where alcohol was even tangentially involved--and even then, most of the more productive bits of the conversation were had mostly sober. I'm not much for alcohol, so it might be worth finding a gal like you, who isn't much of a fan of it--makes for some interesting times at social gatherings where alcohol is present.

Okay, I have to admit I'm a terrible example, but I am oblivious to flirting unless I know the person moderately well and know what is normal behavior for them. I find myself attracted to personality more than anything else--if you can engage me in conversation, especially if it's for more than ten minutes, you've probably got me hooked for the night if not longer. So, from my point of view, flirting is almost worthless--my best advice is to be friendly and have a topic of conversation that is flexible as the night/day passes on.

I did meet one of my best friends (at this point, a former friend with benefits) in the dining hall. I was bored, sat down next to a group that looked like they were having fun, and they invited me into their conversation. I was hooked and for the last few years I've had people I can talk to--I messed it up early this year so it hasn't been the same, but it's a strategy that worked out wonderfully for me.

 

[chizzledman]

Coastal Boy, I know she was going to her cousin's Bat Mitzvah. That's not something you would normally think up as a lie in half a second especially since she didn't hesitate.

Thanks. These are all great suggestions and ideas I'm actually comfortable. I particularly like the one about meeting someone in the aisle of Barnes and Noble that interests me. That way if I see what they're reading and I'm even remotely interested in its subject I could strike up a conversation (maybe even get a number)!

 

[Cattypuss]

chizzledman, you sound like a very intelligent young man and I must say I think that you are over-intellectualising this whole thing.

I have a friend. He's got a doctorate in physics, which he got at a scarily young age, and is scarily intelligent. And he tries to apply logic to dating. He is so busy trying to work out if the woman is suitable for him and vice-versa that the whole thing becomes an intellectual exercise and all possibility of being relaxed together, getting a feel for what makes the other person really tick etc - hell, even sharing a laugh together - it's all stifled under the serious, analytical approach.

His other problem is that he sees women as a different species. We're not, you know. We are all human beings with interesting minds first, and whatever sex we are comes second. I have helped him a little to undersand that women are people too, and he's starting to relax more around women as a result, which can only help him.

Have you thought of making some female friends - say women who aren't attractive to you physically? It would help you to feel more relaxed around women. It would also open some doors for you - women have lots of women friends they could introduce you to in time!

Edited to add - I don't go for the whole picking-people-up-in-bars-etc-etc thing. EVERY single lover I've had in my life has been a friend or a colleague before becoming a lover - with the exception in the last year or so of some lovers met on the internet.

 

[chizzledman]

Hi Cattypuss,
I've been told before by a friend of mine (a girl) that I overanalyze this dating thing. I do have several women friends and I occasionally flirt with a good woman friend, but it's just playful nothing else. I'm mostly clueless about approaching women I've never met to strike up a conversation. I have another question. There's this girl I'm interested in getting to know better, but the only two methods that I can contact her are through email and facebook and I do have her email address. My question is if I want to invite her through email to hang out with her what are some venues to hang out that wouldn't put a ton of pressure on either one of us? I'm not quite sure if even the method of communication has any effect on the type of venue.

I'm just speaking my mind when I say this, but one thing I've learned from working in a research lab is that I have to be willing to take chances on certain experiments to determine if a method will work (especially if it's not too important, but important enough that it could save time) even if I'm afraid of wasting time or supplies. If I apply this to dating, I could probably be more successful at dating, but I don't react well in awkward situations. Ugh, why do I make this so hard on myself?!

 

[Cattypuss]

Ugh, why do I make this so hard on myself?!

Because you're human and you fear rejection - like 95% of us.

I don't know how would be the best way to approach that woman - I've never been in such a situation myself. When I have met lovers online, it's been through adult dating sites, so we both knew what we were there for in the first place and just chatted until we felt there was an online rapport and, once there was, one of us suggested speaking on the phone and, in cases where there seemed to be a rapport on the phone too, we met up.

Why do you want to ask this woman out? Is it purely based on her looks, or is there something about her personality you are attacted to? If the latter, what is it? Can you focus and build on that? For example (purely as random illustration), if she has a sense of humour that attracts you, how about asking her to a comedy club and a drink afterwards?

 

[Cattypuss]

I do have several women friends and I occasionally flirt with a good woman friend, but it's just playful nothing else.

Don't knock it.

How do young predatory animals hone their hunting and fighting skills for deadly use in adulthood? They do it via play when young.

 

[mentionME]

mentionME, what are some ways to differentiate a friend from an interested lady?

Thanks for the advice mentionME, easyluckyfree, and glynndah. I'll keep checking for more advice.

I'm sorry, I'm super late. It seems you've received great answers. I'll try not to parrot with my two cents. I feel that women friends see us guys as incomplete. That we're either the sensitive type, or the security type. an interested lady tries to find the complete package. That said note if a girl is using you in a single manner or fielding your abilities in general. If the women uses you to fill the void her 'strong, silent type' boyfriend/suitors leave by being emotionless, or explains how you're just her type without realizing it all the time...she's isolating your sensitive aspect. If you're used as lone man inviting on girls night out to the club and to answer the phone for crazy ex boyfriends you're in security world. BOTH SUCK. So my best answer not really covered is focus on girls that you feel you provide multiple unrelated roles too.

Oh, and also keep your friends, wear them down...if you have a friend u feel like u practically go out with anyway she'll figure it out. plus like u've been told playful flirting is good practice. practice on the friends hard see if you ruffle some feathers. plus ur friends have friends and even if she's oblivious, her friends may figure out you're great

 

[chizzledman]

Why do you want to ask this woman out? Is it purely based on her looks, or is there something about her personality you are attacted to? If the latter, what is it? Can you focus and build on that? For example (purely as random illustration), if she has a sense of humour that attracts you, how about asking her to a comedy club and a drink afterwards?

Cattypuss, up to this point in my life when I've interacted with girls I don't ALWAYS have long enough conversations, in my opinion, that would give me a SPECIFIC reason about her personality to want to date her. However, as a starting point when I meet girls, I usually judge her personality as a whole based on my first conversation with her and see if I like it. When a woman talks to me I don't always find the interests that she has mentioned in the conversation to be interesting, but if I think I might like her personality AND I'm physically attracted to her, only then do I decide if I would like to go on a date. Then, I plan to get to know her better and see if we have anything in common. However, I've had difficulty getting to this second step because I don't know how to ask if she wants to hang out, I've been afraid of rejection, and my nerves have gotten the better of me. In other cases I learn from first conversation that we have something in common AND I'm physically attracted to her, in which case I would know going into a date that there's some commonality, but to reiterate I have had trouble GETTING the date. For the woman you are asking about, I learned that we have a few common interests, I think she's cute, and I think I would like her based on what I know about her personality, which isn't a lot but it is something.

What I'm most concerned about is scaring her off by asking her out because I didn't show her my interest in her as a potential date when we first met, but I suppose I'll just have to take that risk. Also, I'm the kind of person that likes a guide to doing certain procedures be it social, academic, or work related, so I usually get stuck in any of these situations if I've never heard, seen, or read how things are done.

Don't knock it.

How do young predatory animals hone their hunting and fighting skills for deadly use in adulthood? They do it via play when young.

To be clear, do you mean to say it's good that I flirted with my good friend as a form of practice?

 

[Cattypuss]

To be clear, do you mean to say it's good that I flirted with my good friend as a form of practice?

YES!!!!!!!! Flirt with anyone and everyone at every opportunity- that's how you will get practice and hone your flirting skills and build your flirting muscles. Think of a puppy. The puppy will play with anyone at any time, at any oportunity, because it is hard-wired to practice its fighting/hunting skills through play as a youngster. The puppy that plays most often grows into the adult with the best hunting and fighting skill. Be that puppy.

As to that particular woman, if you know something about her you must know a few things she might be interested in doing. Think of one and suggest it to her. Make the suggestion casual and don't be afraid of scaring her off - if you never try she'll never go out with you anyway.

 

[chizzledman]

Thank you for the good advice, Cattypuss. I will try this when I return to school. In the mean time I will email her and have casual conversations to build a connection. How's that sound?