A Dismal Generation, 1969-1999

[amicus]

A generation is about thirty years, give or take, look it up.

Watching a NASA Channel history program of Viking Landers, one and two, on Mars, thirty years ago, a celebration in June of this year; I thought of that ‘30’ year thing and the similarities with other ‘30’ year things I have noticed recently.

I cannot define or explain how a ‘generation’ is named, a generality in any case, for sure. Such as the ‘greatest’ generation of World War Two, does that mean those who came of age in the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s? Or is it ‘give or take’ a few years at either end? I dunno.

From our vantage point of ‘now’, we look back and peruse the cause and effect of generations preceding us, and make decisions, of one sort or another, for one reason or another, maybe it has to do with our parents, I really don’t know.

I do know, however, that future ‘generations’ will look back upon us and our times and do quite the same..

What will they see, how will they judge?

The first novel I wrote, still unpublished, had a scene with my oldest son, a father trying to explain some of the things of the world about them. My character said, “We have stopped exploring, stopped looking ahead and trying to discover new things, we have turned inwards, looking at what we are and trying to understand why we are what we are.”

As a writer, I was asking a question, through my character, that neither he nor I had an answer to.

As time goes by, I get closer to understanding why I had to ask the question and what the answer might be.

That ‘30’ year thing I mentioned, about the Viking Mars landings, keyed both ’generation’, thirty years, and that it is thirty years since we built a new nuclear plant, thirty years since we built a new oil refinery, 30 years since we have virtually brought construction and expansion to a halt.

Thirty years of basically staring at our collective navels, contemplating and meditating. Hari Krishna style.

Where does it go from here? When does one generation end and another begin? If one generation ended in 1999 and another began, where will it go, how will it be defined?

Amicus…

 

[Liar]

Interresting how perspectives can differ. You look at the last three decades and see ststus quo and navelgazing. I look at the same period of time and see a more explosive expanse in human ingenuity than ever before, a technology driven revolution in medicine, communications and base research in the hard sciences as well as great leaps forward in psychology and a wide array of social studies.

So we haven't built stuff? I disagree. We have hurled thousands upon thousands of sattelites into the air, dug a massive grid of wires into the ground, mass produced little silicon machines that exceed the projected possibilities every year, and hurls us into a society that just ten years ago would have been science fiction, let alone thirty years ago.

So my guess for the next generation? Well, this one did things that the former one couldn't have dreamed of. So I guess the next one will surprise the hell out of us.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

A generation is about thirty years, give or take, look it up.

Watching a NASA Channel history program of Viking Landers, one and two, on Mars, thirty years ago, a celebration in June of this year; I thought of that ‘30’ year thing and the similarities with other ‘30’ year things I have noticed recently.

I cannot define or explain how a ‘generation’ is named, a generality in any case, for sure. Such as the ‘greatest’ generation of World War Two, does that mean those who came of age in the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s? Or is it ‘give or take’ a few years at either end? I dunno.

--

Where does it go from here? When does one generation end and another begin? If one generation ended in 1999 and another began, where will it go, how will it be defined?

Amicus…

The term "Greatest Generation" was popularized as the title of a book by Tom Brokaw. As such, it was a shrewd bit of marketing. As a definition for the WW II generation, it's inaccurate. While that segment of the population did a lot more than most such groupings in American history, including their kids, my own Boomers, they are, at best, tied for second with the post Civil War generation. Both groups are way behind the Revolutionary War generation.

One generation ends and another begins when someone, usually a social historian/observer, says so and identifies the change, and possibly the generation, with a catchy label that is accepted by the public.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[amicus]

Interresting how perspectives can differ. You look at the last three decades and see ststus quo and navelgazing. I look at the same period of time and see a more explosive expanse in human ingenuity than ever before, a technology driven revolution in medicine, communications and base research in the hard sciences as well as great leaps forward in psychology and a wide array of social studies.

So we haven't built stuff? I disagree. We have hurled thousands upon thousands of sattelites into the air, dug a massive grid of wires into the ground, mass produced little silicon machines that exceed the projected possibilities every year, and hurls us into a society that just ten years ago would have been science fiction, let alone thirty years ago.

So my guess for the next generation? Well, this one did things that the former one couldn't have dreamed of. So I guess the next one will surprise the hell out of us.

~~~

Yup, Liar, you are absolutely correct and I agree with your second paragraph without reservations.

It is somewhat of a contradiction that I cannot resolve.

I want to digress to an earlier post where a friend indicated that there are only 13 Universities in the United States where one can study advanced Nuclear Engineering, as the Nuclear industry has shrunk over the past thirty years.

I can speculate that two forces in opposition are working against each other, as you full well know of the resistance to progress that I referenced.

I am transparent, visible and easy to understand in my basic motivations, I don't hide in subterfuge or obfuscation any of my aspirations or assumptions, I am easy to read.

I even pretty much agree with your closing paragraph, that the future will surprise the hell out of us...but with the caveat that the more one can know of cutting edge technology, the less will come as a complete surprise.

But can you not at least give some credence to the anti industrial tendency of the generation I mentioned? Can you not at least accept that if 60 percent of the electric generation was nuclear instead of coal, that we would be in a different place? Just to use one example.

?

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

The term "Greatest Generation" was popularized as the title of a book by Tom Brokaw. As such, it was a shrewd bit of marketing. As a definition for the WW II generation, it's inaccurate. While that segment of the population did a lot more than most such groupings in American history, including their kids, my own Boomers, they are, at best, tied for second with the post Civil War generation. Both groups are way behind the Revolutionary War generation.

One generation ends and another begins when someone, usually a social historian/observer, says so and identifies the change, and possibly the generation, with a catchy label that is accepted by the public.

Rumple Foreskin

~~~

I would not argue nor disagree with anything you posted, Rumple; but is everything, perception only?

Is it just the 'social historian/observer/public, that defines a generation?

I grew up in the 40's, and what I know of that era, is through retrospection and reading histories, I was not aware of the momentous events occurring until much, much later...thus...my question about 'generations' remains; are we defined by others or do we, by our actions, define ourselves?

Amicus...

 

[scheherazade_79]

it is thirty years since we built a new nuclear plant, thirty years since we built a new oil refinery, 30 years since we have virtually brought construction and expansion to a halt.

Thirty years of basically staring at our collective navels, contemplating and meditating. Hari Krishna style.

Thirty years of figuring out ways to live in harmony with our planet, instead of expanding no matter what the cost, don't seem like 30 years wasted to me.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=scheherazade_79]Thirty years of figuring out ways to live in harmony with our planet, instead of expanding no matter what the cost, don't seem like 30 years wasted to me.[/QUOTE]


~~~

Sheherazade....the planet is not in 'harmony', never has been, never will be.

You and those who think like you, imagine a time where the lion lay down with the lamb, it has never been so and will never be so.

It is evolution, violent and uncaring of your Utopian thoughts. Life is violent, competitive, predator and prey, and inexorably changing and mutating in ways beyond our comprehension.

Hunkering down and conforming to the socialist ideal of unearned equality, is about as theological as one can be.

I know you don't comprehend any of that but I am not in a pedantic mood at the moment.


Amicus...

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

~~~

I would not argue nor disagree with anything you posted, Rumple; but is everything, perception only?

Is it just the 'social historian/observer/public, that defines a generation?

I grew up in the 40's, and what I know of that era, is through retrospection and reading histories, I was not aware of the momentous events occurring until much, much later...thus...my question about 'generations' remains; are we defined by others or do we, by our actions, define ourselves?
Amicus...

A history professor of mine once said that no French peasant jumped out of bed on the morning of 01/01/1500 and shouted, "Wake up wife. We've left the late middle ages and entered upon the glorius Renaissance." So, yes, in most cases it takes hindsight to identity the long lasting contributions of a "generation" and to place them in context.

That said, there were many examples in the 20th century of self-labeling. Probably the most famous was "The Lost Generation" which flowered during "The Jazz Age" in "The Roaring Twenties."

Rumple Foreskin

 

[scheherazade_79]

Sheherazade....the planet has always been in 'harmony'. It's in harmony when I sit outside under the stars, listening to the sound of crickets as I strum my guitar and jingle a tambourine. And it's in harmony when I dress in women's clothes and take photos of myself doing the dishes, the vacuuming, the dusting and polishing.

You see, contrary to popular belief I am a 21st century man, who cares deeply about things like women's rights, pacifism and saving the planet.

Just next week I'll be attending a tree-hugging session in Florida, and every Wednesday I run a local knitting circle for all the poor and lonely old ladies who live in my area.

I'm sorry that I haven't scaled your intellectual heights, Zade, but I am a simple man, who's more effective at flower arranging and baking fairy cakes than taking part in a logical debate.

I know you don't comprehend any of that but my hormones are playing me up at the moment, and I'm afraid I can't be any clearer.


Amicus...

It's ok, Ami

 

[S-Des]

The chances are that I have more letters after my name than you have in yours - despite the fact that I don't have a penis.

See, these are two of the things I love most about you . . . that and your propensity to find yourself in non-lethal but humorous situations.

Ami, the best thing about your original post here is that I was born in 1966, so don't qualify for the dismal generation.

Seriously, I think I fall a bit closer to Liar than you on this. We improved much, while putting aside other things for a time. Did we further our space exploration? No, but we did get the Hubble in space to make some amazing discoveries. I would have liked to have seen us further our ocean exploration more than we have, but we did make some advances. I'm disappointed in our lack of progress in the energy field (especially in our continued dependance on oil coming from countries filled with psycopaths who blow themselves up to find eternal happiness), but glad to see much of the world trying to join us in technical and social advances. I think this last generation has been a mixed bag, as are most. Remember, space exploration didn't come from our need to discover, it came from a childish rivalry with the Russians. The Greatest Generation sacrificed more than can be believed, but the leadership of that time had much to do with letting things get out of hand (and we won't mention that pesky civil rights thing).

Things are never as bright as we wistfully remember them and rarely as dire as they appear.

 

[amicus]

... So basically you're saying "fuck everything - let's drain the planet of all its natural resources, pollute the air, the rives, the oceans, turn some corners into radioactive hotspots, and just keep expanding until it wipes us and all other life out"

Yes, the planet mutates. Yes, it's marked into a system of predator and prey. Yes, it can be a wild and changeable place.

But until we figure out a way of doing the parasite act on other planets in our solar system, it's still our only home and we need to look after it.

It's only during the last 30 years or so that we've started paying close attention to this. And for that reason I don't see them as being 30 years wasted.

And by the way - it pisses me off when you pass judgement on what you think I can and can't comprehend, so please don't do it. I actually stood up for you the other day when people were slinging insults your way. At least have the courtesy to show me some respect.

The chances are that I have more letters after my name than you have in yours - despite the fact that I don't have a penis.

~~~

Geez, lighten up girl, although it was a reply to your post in was not 'personal' by intent, but rather general, with personal references to your words.

"...

... So basically you're saying "fuck everything - let's drain the planet of all its natural resources, pollute the air, the rives, the oceans, turn some corners into radioactive hotspots, and just keep expanding until it wipes us and all other life out" ..."

***

I am not saying any of that.

I own land, (define that as you will), and I have owned land with forests, and streams and pastures and meadows and I never approached it with a "fuck everything", attitude, few, even Corporations do so.

But if real property is held by individuals and their rights to property ownership are defined and enforced, there is no conflict and no degradation of the environment.

It is only when the 'collective', a.k. 'government' can 'own' property, that problems arise.

As a private property owner, if a gravel quarry begins operation on a property next to mine and pollutes my property, my environment, I have recourse, through law, through the courts, to seek resolution.

When 'government' owns the adjacent property, I have no recourse. The 'government' the collective, can do what ever they wish and ignore my protected rights for the 'greater good'.

It was not to question or demean your ability to understand my previous post, it is rather a mindset you have, it was simply my assertion that you just do not understand the concept of a 'free' society, wherein every property owner has equal rights.

You see it as if 'government', the ruling bodies grant rights; they do not, we have innate inalienable rights to life, liberty and property, government only protects those rights...and that....my friend...is what you do not comprehend.


Amicus...

 

[amicus]

See, these are two of the things I love most about you . . . that and your propensity to find yourself in non-lethal but humorous situations.

Ami, the best thing about your original post here is that I was born in 1966, so don't qualify for the dismal generation.

Seriously, I think I fall a bit closer to Liar than you on this. We improved much, while putting aside other things for a time. Did we further our space exploration? No, but we did get the Hubble in space to make some amazing discoveries. I would have liked to have seen us further our ocean exploration more than we have, but we did make some advances. I'm disappointed in our lack of progress in the energy field (especially in our continued dependance on oil coming from countries filled with psycopaths who blow themselves up to find eternal happiness), but glad to see much of the world trying to join us in technical and social advances. I think this last generation has been a mixed bag, as are most. Remember, space exploration didn't come from our need to discover, it came from a childish rivalry with the Russians. The Greatest Generation sacrificed more than can be believed, but the leadership of that time had much to do with letting things get out of hand (and we won't mention that pesky civil rights thing).

Things are never as bright as we wistfully remember them and rarely as dire as they appear.

~~~

I think,S-Des, that little can be said in a single post or even an essay, carefully prepared, which most of my posts are not..

There may be value, somewhere, or rationalization, that it has been over thirty years since the last human set foot on the moon.

Perhaps, in the overall scheme of things, we needed to do 'Hubble" and "Spirit" and "Opportunity", perhaps we needed to do the 'Huygens" Saturn probe...perhaps, perhaps, perhaps,( a song, from Taco Soup), perhaps we will never know.

Perhaps it is more efficient and economical to send machines into space rather than humans, it is an ongoing debate within NASA, but then, again, that is a 'government', agency, what would private enterprise choose to do.

If you wish to confront my assertion that, in the United States at least, the thirty year period I referred to, does not, to some degree, reflect a 'drawing back' from exploration an innovation, Hubble and unmanned expeditions notwithstanding, then do, so on equal terms.

Do not, please, just offer opposition. I think my point is valid, otherwise I would not have expressed it.

Amicus...

 

[TxRad]

1969 was my last tour in Nam. 1999 was the year i bought this little shack on the lake.

Between these two points is a whole lot of living, loving, crying and dying. I met my wife, married her, had two kids and she died. My kids grew up. Maybe not exactly as planned but good enough. I left California to go back home to Louisiana and then ended up in Texas. I've worked for people and owned my own business and worked for people again.

On a whole it has been half my life. Dismal it hasn't been.

 

[S-Des]

If you wish to confront my assertion that, in the United States at least, the thirty year period I referred to, does not, to some degree, reflect a 'drawing back' from exploration an innovation, Hubble and unmanned expeditions notwithstanding, then do, so on equal terms.

Do not, please, just offer opposition. I think my point is valid, otherwise I would not have expressed it.

Amicus...

Actually, I agree completely with that point. Just that I don't think the drawing back is necessarily a bad thing . . . merely a series of choices which has produced some positive results along with the negatives. I'm not really offering opposition, per se, just a different slant on your take. I don't think the generation was awful, but I agree that it left much to be desired. In fact, you may find some of the people who normally dispute your opinions could be in agreement with you on this one. Many people feel that the greed of the 80s did immeasurable harm. People lost everything, while a small group made millions. It marked a departure in the way people viewed each other and I believe began the coursening of our political dialogue (which has only gotten worse).

 

[amicus]

1969 was my last tour in Nam. 1999 was the year i bought this little shack on the lake.

Between these two points is a whole lot of living, loving, crying and dying. I met my wife, married her, had two kids and she died. My kids grew up. Maybe not exactly as planned but good enough. I left California to go back home to Louisiana and then ended up in Texas. I've worked for people and owned my own business and worked for people again.

On a whole it has been half my life. Dismal it hasn't been.

~~~

You take things too personally TxRad, I was born with a mind, I am a fucking intellectual; I think of things in abstract, non personal terms, sue me.

I share or relate very few personal anecdotes here as the fucking perverts distort it and use it to their advantage in a discussion.

All my children were born in those years, and they, as you, have their own generation to justify, understand and build on.

My abstraction was just that, an abstraction, a generalization of events that molded and influenced events succeeding them.

To perhaps grasp my query; if Nuclear and not Coal, produced the majority of the electric energy we consume, how would that change our society? And that could have happened, as it did in France and Japan, had it not been for the anti nuclear, 'generation' that opposed progress and change.

I have a lot of questions and not always answers...bear with me...

amicus...

 

[TxRad]

Sorry, I seemed to have wandered into an unmarked political thread...

Bye and good luck.....

 

[RedHairedandFriendly]

Sorry, I seemed to have wandered into an unmarked political thread...

Bye and good luck.....

*just stalking Tx... don't mind me*

Have a good morning amicus. ~ Red.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=S-Des]Actually, I agree completely with that point. Just that I don't think the drawing back is necessarily a bad thing . . . merely a series of choices which has produced some positive results along with the negatives. I'm not really offering opposition, per se, just a different slant on your take. I don't think the generation was awful, but I agree that it left much to be desired. In fact, you may find some of the people who normally dispute your opinions could be in agreement with you on this one. Many people feel that the greed of the 80s did immeasurable harm. People lost everything, while a small group made millions. It marked a departure in the way people viewed each other and I believe began the coursening of our political dialogue (which has only gotten worse).[/QUOTE]

~~~~~

Okay...I agree to a static situation of sorts, where we have a degree of stability in our discussion, but I reject, totally, your reference to greed. If my name were Paul Gates and I was worth several billion dollars (american), I would not give you a fucking penny to ease your pain, whatever it was, I would spend my 'earnings' as I chose.

For a further speculation, I would offer a, 'space cowboy', of the private enterprise sort of exploration, based on economic interests only, like the Spanish, or the English, or the Dutch, or the French, or the Chinese, for that matter, as putting a 'claim', on the moon or Mars, or the Asteroid Belt for mining ownership.

Your concept of greed, as I read it, is but a disdain of a free society, a free market, human freedom, individual liberty, and if that is who you are, then so be it.


Amicus...

 

[Liar]

But can you not at least give some credence to the anti industrial tendency of the generation I mentioned? Can you not at least accept that if 60 percent of the electric generation was nuclear instead of coal, that we would be in a different place? Just to use one example.

Oh I agree with that. Not saying that there haven't been mistakes. The nuclear power scare (following Harrisburg, I'd presume) in the 70's was a knee jerk reaction that have had serious egative impact on economy and environment. When instead of pulling the breaks, we should have poured obscene amounts of money into research and engineering development of plant safety, waste handling technology and fusion efficiency.

So sure yes, it's been a whithdrawal.

In some areas.

And an explosion of activity and progress in others.

Because that's how it goes. The expansive markets grow, stagnate, and are replaced by other expansive markets. We've gone from living in a natural resources and industry based era to a technology and information based era. That's all really. I'm sure someone decryed the stagnation of the railroad market as the end-of-all-progress once too.

 

[amicus]

[QUOTE=TxRad]Sorry, I seemed to have wandered into an unmarked political thread...

Bye and good luck.....[/QUOTE]

~~~


Although you may not be aware of it, TxRad, every thread is a political thread, always and forever.

If you can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Amicus...the unforgiving...

 

[S-Des]

Your concept of greed, as I read it, is but a disdain of a free society, a free market, human freedom, individual liberty, and if that is who you are, then so be it.


Amicus...

I'm not sure if I differ from you or not on the subject, but I'm a fan of producers. Anyone who produces a product, designs a product, or markets a product (including entertainers) deserves whatever the market will bear. What I didn't like about the 80s was deregulations of the banking industry that led to theft of the Savings & Loans. I didn't like corporate hatchetmen who did nothing for their company except fire as many people as possible, then pointed to their new "profits" (even though such reckless behavior often harmed the companies in the long run). I really hated stock market manipulation and people who bought functioning companies, only to sell them off in small pieces, putting entire towns out of work (again, making money at the expense of America at large who wound up paying subsidies for many of these people in medical costs, unemployment benefits, and reduced ability to consume goods).

I'm not a completely free market guy, neither am I a socialist. As with most things, I fall in the middle. Some people say that makes me indecisive. *shrug*

 

[Liar]

What I didn't like about the 80s was deregulations of the banking industry that led to theft of the Savings & Loans. I didn't like corporate hatchetmen who did nothing for their company except fire as many people as possible, then pointed to their new "profits" (even though such reckless behavior often harmed the companies in the long run). I really hated stock market manipulation and people who bought functioning companies, only to sell them off in small pieces, putting entire towns out of work (again, making money at the expense of America at large who wound up paying subsidies for many of these people in medical costs, unemployment benefits, and reduced ability to consume goods).

You talk about it as if it was a thing of the past. I don't like that about the 90's or 00's either.

The biggest harm IMO to a free market of entrepreneurs is stock market daytrading and quarterly report hysteria.

Some of the most successful long term enterprises are those that never subjected their business to that, and thus could look att long term development whithout feraing trigger happy stock brokers.

 

[amicus]

I'm not sure if I differ from you or not on the subject, but I'm a fan of producers. Anyone who produces a product, designs a product, or markets a product (including entertainers) deserves whatever the market will bear. What I didn't like about the 80s was deregulations of the banking industry that led to theft of the Savings & Loans. I didn't like corporate hatchetmen who did nothing for their company except fire as many people as possible, then pointed to their new "profits" (even though such reckless behavior often harmed the companies in the long run). I really hated stock market manipulation and people who bought functioning companies, only to sell them off in small pieces, putting entire towns out of work (again, making money at the expense of America at large who wound up paying subsidies for many of these people in medical costs, unemployment benefits, and reduced ability to consume goods).

I'm not a completely free market guy, neither am I a socialist. As with most things, I fall in the middle. Some people say that makes me indecisive. *shrug*

~~~

S-Des...there are bad guys everywhere, and gals too( to be PC)

I admit, that even though I have read hundreds and hundred of books about money, from shells and beads to precious metals, to paper money, that I do not fully comprehend the financial workings of your local bank, the savings and loan entities, the National Bank system, the Stock Exchange, the International Monetary Fund, the setting of exchange rates, speculation, hedge funds, futures, et cetera, if you have a grasp of all that shit, then please educate me.

I studied the 'Teapot Dome' thing, and a hundred other financial scandals through the years and concluded that businessmen, like petty thieves, are just as human as we all are.

I have read and tried to understand the function of 'money' in a society or an economy from all the aspects I can think of.

My conclusion is, in general, that there are crooks and frauds everywhere, in every walk of life.

Thus, rather than demean any particular system of exchange, I look to the human factor and then I discount it, as endemic, and proceed to analize the the logical and rational efficiency of the 'system' itself.

If you have followed my posts then you know what 'system' I have concluded to be the most efficient and 'human'.

Amicus...

 

[amicus]

Oh I agree with that. Not saying that there haven't been mistakes. The nuclear power scare (following Harrisburg, I'd presume) in the 70's was a knee jerk reaction that have had serious egative impact on economy and environment. When instead of pulling the breaks, we should have poured obscene amounts of money into research and engineering development of plant safety, waste handling technology and fusion efficiency.

So sure yes, it's been a whithdrawal.

In some areas.

And an explosion of activity and progress in others.

Because that's how it goes. The expansive markets grow, stagnate, and are replaced by other expansive markets. We've gone from living in a natural resources and industry based era to a technology and information based era. That's all really. I'm sure someone decryed the stagnation of the railroad market as the end-of-all-progress once too.

~~~

Hmmm...When I copied and pasted your post I was sure I saw the word 'decrying', and that was what tickled me...but now I do not see it, perhaps you edited.

Good things can happen even in the worst of situations, that, I conclude, is human nature, we try to make the best out of what we have.

What I am saying, in just one small example, is that what would have happened in our world, in the generation I mentioned, if the political initiative have been in favor of nuclear power and not coal fired electricity generating plants.

I am saying, in my own words, that if, without political influence, thus legislation and laws; that nuclear energy would be supplying perhaps 90 percent of our energy requirements and the coal miner's union would be a thing of the past; pollution would be half what is is, mine laborers would become skilled workers in other industries and the standard of living would be much higher than it is for all levels of society.

Now if that is not a complex, compound, lengthy sentence, what the hell is; and retired English teachers and grammarians of all sorts are invited to rip it apart. As if I give a shit.


Amicus...

 

[TxRad]

[QUOTE=TxRad]Sorry, I seemed to have wandered into an unmarked political thread...

Bye and good luck.....

~~~


Although you may not be aware of it, TxRad, every thread is a political thread, always and forever.

If you can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Amicus...the unforgiving...[/QUOTE]

Only you would actually believe something like that

and it's not the heat that's the problem but the endless rehash of the same old shit raked around by the same people

Sorry but I hate to tell ya but you ain't changing your mind and niether are they so it's a dead horse as usual.

Tx the I don't give a shit....