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Strengths of Dominance : Different Strokes For Different Folks

catalina_francisco

catalina_francisco

Happily insatiable always
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Posts
18,730
Over time and experience, I have learned just as there are variations in styles of submission, so there are differences in the way a Dominant chooses to exhibit thier dominance and control. While some may overtly display their control by verbally or physically demanding certain behaviour and rules adhered too by even prospective submissives, there are others who covertly display their dominance in ways which encourage the submissive to submit of thier own will or compulsion, recognising their need to submit and the Dominant's right to control without obvious guidelines and constructed rituals to emphasise the dominance. Between these two extremes are of course a myriad of variations designed to fit the individuals involved.

My experience in talking to other submissives, especially new or inexperienced, is they are not always aware of the existance or relevance of particularly the covert style of Dominance and often miss the significance or mistake it for something else. Sometimes this is OK, sometimes it leads to behaviour in submissives aimed at evoking the overt dominance they are expecting or familiar with, and sometimes it sees them choose another who may not necessarily have their best interests at heart (ie. abusive partners who promote themselves as Dominants but in reality use the role to attract their unsuspecting victims).

I was interested in generating discussion around our experiences, thoughts, and observations of dominance/Dominants, and preferences of style if any, and the advantages of those choices for the individual submissive personality and character. In part the thread is a desire to share and learn through experiences, but also to highlight the differences as an educational tool for newer members of the lifestyle/community who are seeking information.

Catalina :rose:
 
Re: This should be fun

AngelicAssassin said:
to read over time.
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Hopefully...... and informative as well I'm hoping as I know many have a view that dominance is something which is always openly and forcefully displayed.

Catalina :rose:
 
Re: Re: Re: This should be fun

AngelicAssassin said:
i'll reserve comment ... http://www.1st-vets.org/forum/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif
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Perhaps to clarify, some feel unless a Dominant is cracking a whip and telling them every five minutes why and how they should submit, breathe, and think, they have no strength or dominance. Others can experience a form of dominance which has a different strength of emphasis whereby the Dominant may offer clear but minimal overt direction in beginning stages, preferring a way whereby they can observe the submissive, allow them to give submission without it being demanded in words or actions, and yet still provide the control and strength of a Dominant.

LOL....sometimes in my experience I have observed this method is a good representation of giving a person (submissive) enough rope they can hang themselves. It often is much more in the realm of mental dominance, and applied intelligence to differentiate between the non-interested and the interested but not reliant of dominant displays to achieve the final goal. The styles I am thinking of pertain mostly to the beginning stages of a relationship, but are often indicative of the style dominance that will shape the entire relationship to some extent.

Catalina :rose:
 
AngelicAssassin said:
Congrats, you win the kewpie doll for the day.

Once the gloves come off, however ...
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?........LOL, not interested in winning anything, just generating discussion around topics which some have difficulty with.

C
 
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There's a fine line between being mellow and being not invested enough.

Every submissive I've ever had sooner or later benefits from an ostensible, tangible, concrete psychic "bitchslap" of sorts, a being put into one's place.

And frankly, if I can't be bothered to provide this experience often enough to maintain the submissive, I don't deserve the submission, I think. There's a fine line between being manipulated and paying no attention, not doing the maintenance.

I find that most Tops who bitch all the time about being manipulated into sceneing/topping from bottom usually don't want to be bothered with routine maintenance, aren't actually Dominant enough to hold a structure, know what to do with a sub.
 
Extremely well put Catalina!

What you refer to as "covert" dominance I have been describing as "subtleties," "intricacies," and "nuances." I like the term covert dominance. It is very much fitting to my raltionship.

Hugger
 
Netzach said:
There's a fine line between being mellow and being not invested enough.
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I agree, though I was not referring so much to the 'can't be bothered' type, as the type who do not feel they need direct every aspect at the beginning especially. From my observations, it is more as Limbhugger says, a subtlety in style which allows the submissive to demonstrate their understanding and inclination toward submission without being directed to do so. I think many mistake it for disinterest or arrogance without fully appreciating the positives involved.

Some submissives I have spoken with see it as a weakness, but I tend to think it takes a strong Dominant to be able to sit back and allow that freedom of expression, especially when other issues are impacting on the sub, and I also suspect a highly intelligent Dominant who understands in doing so they are more likely to see how dedicated the submissive is going to be to submission, more so then fulfilling their own needs.

Is just my opinion, but I like the security such Dominants have in not needing to exert control to gain submission. Fortunately I have such a Dominant who givesd me both aspects depending on the situation and mood, but also understand it is not for everyone.

Catalina :rose:
 
Since it's a general discussion topic, I'll just post some general points (and then pull on my hobnail boots in preparation for jumping all over anyone who disagrees with me! :D)

I've always regarded each person as unique, and I suspect there are as many "styles" of dominance and submission as there are people dominating or submitting.

A lot of it is around which particular areas are turn ons, personality, imagination and so on.

I have noticed a bit of a "spectrum" -- with one end being the very formalised "rule book" D/s, and the other being the informal "make it up as you go along" D/s. I tend to veer towards the latter myself.

I've also noticed that many people take D/s dead seriously, whereas I laugh at everything, including (or especially) myself. So... neither here nor there, just a difference in personality.

So in reality, it all comes down to the individuality of the people in D/s. Not so much a label, just the fascinating complexity of who people are.

While we all have some things in common (an interest in D/s), there's a huge area for variation within that!
 
catalina_francisco said:
I agree, though I was not referring so much to the 'can't be bothered' type, as the type who do not feel they need direct every aspect at the beginning especially. From my observations, it is more as Limbhugger says, a subtlety in style which allows the submissive to demonstrate their understanding and inclination toward submission without being directed to do so. I think many mistake it for disinterest or arrogance without fully appreciating the positives involved.

Some submissives I have spoken with see it as a weakness, but I tend to think it takes a strong Dominant to be able to sit back and allow that freedom of expression, especially when other issues are impacting on the sub, and I also suspect a highly intelligent Dominant who understands in doing so they are more likely to see how dedicated the submissive is going to be to submission, more so then fulfilling their own needs.

Is just my opinion, but I like the security such Dominants have in not needing to exert control to gain submission. Fortunately I have such a Dominant who givesd me both aspects depending on the situation and mood, but also understand it is not for everyone.

Catalina :rose:
Click to expand...


Here is my take..and ONLY how i see things. A dominant need not ever have to show his control over his submissive in any way physically, including raising his voice. As for not needing to exert control...i kind of think they are totally controlling the situation at all times but dont feel the need to pound their chest like tarzan lol. That to me is a true Dominant, and the type that i feel comfortable submitting to. A Dom who feels the need to forever prove his/her dominance is not a dom at all. :rose: my two cents
 
Kajira Callista said:
A dominant need not ever have to show his control over his submissive in any way physically, including raising his voice. As for not needing to exert control...i kind of think they are totally controlling the situation at all times but dont feel the need to pound their chest like tarzan lol.
Click to expand...

Thanks KC....That was part of what I was referring to, and something some do not appreciate or understand. I do not intend the discussion to be so much a judgement or contentious thread, but more so a discussion of variations of actuality and preference so there may be a greater awareness. I personally love the subtleties and mindfuck style of the covert Dominant, but can also see a purpose and delight in the overt at times as well. I do think for most, the covert style is a harder act to follow as it is not the one we are usually expecting, nor is it as easy to read or see at all times.

Catalina :rose:
 
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catalina_francisco said:
Thanks KC....That was part of what I was referring to, and something some do not appreciate or understand. I did not intend the discussion to be so much a judgement or contentious thread, but more so a discussion of variations of actuality and preference so there may be a greater awareness. I personally love the subtleties and mindfuck style of the covert Dominant, but can also see a purpose and delight in the overt at times as well. I do think for most, the covert style is a harder act to follow as it is not the one we are usually expecting, nor is it as easy to read or see at all times.

Catalina :rose:
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Just wanted to add....anyone can dominate another physically, especially considering my preference are tall large men and im all of 5"4". Physical can be fun and enjoyable, but not a real feat when you are 6ft plus and stronger. Big mouths dont impress me much either im from a very loud, very passionate italian family so its not anything that would phase me. lol i guess that explains why my opinion is what it is huh
 
Dominance

The most dominant man I ever met is a covert dominant. He has never ordered me to obey him, but I gladly do.
 
Well, bear in mind I'm forcing myself into a bit of devil's advocacy. I personally lean HEAVILY toward type 2 "covert" dominance. I think it's harder for me to be in touch with the possible pitfalls of that.

The idea of me running around with a list of 800 rules to be followed and hovering over a sub with a crop is so unlikely that I don't see it as a potential problem.
 
W/we can only speak for what works for us or what takes our breath away. Without all styles and flavours the perfect meld of personalities would be sorely limited.

So I will speak of My way. My way is the perfect fantasy for some and a horrendous reality for others.

I Dominate using My mind with the percision of a brain surgeon. My eyes read past the moment and search out each tremble and blush. My smile reaches My eyes but cannot hide My seriousness.

I laugh a lot, at the discomfort of the excited submissive and to My own pomposity.

I am gentle but the firmness of My hand on the back of the neck of a submissive grips like steel wrapped in an electric glove.

I have no need to control a submissive that is not under My direct ownership or training. Yet My Dominance flows beneath each word spoken. Even kindness has its own Dominance.

I do enjoy the subtle conversations two Dominants will have just out of hearing range of Their submissives.

I believe that Dom/mes that take the time to build and deepen Their Dom/me friendships are taking direct responsibility for enriching the BDSM community and Their own lives.

Even though I laugh almost constantly and am seldom seen without a ~smile~ I do not suffer fools well. The submissive that makes the mistake of thinking I am not constantly aware of their behaviour will see a quick hand flash out of nowhere to correct them.

I expect class and joyful obedience..anything less will bring out the scathing Bitch and I WILL drop them to their knees in tears with a single finger in the ring of the collar or a hand full of hair if need be.

Formality is important to Me for Me. My formal attitude does not make Me more or less than any other Dominant. It doesn't make Me unique. It is simply where I fit.

I am as subtle as a Black Widow Spider eating Her mate! I am demanding and almost impossible.

I take this lifestyle incredibly seriously...because it is My passion. Yet I do not feel that the depth of My seriousness makes Me any more of a kinkster than tomorrows newbie.

Good topic
 
Shadowsdream said:
II do enjoy the subtle conversations two Dominants will have just out of hearing range of Their submissives.
Click to expand...

It would be fun to have some not-so-subtle conversations within the hearing range of a submissive... and see how much the submissive can be made to squirm just from what she overhears. :devil:
 
Shadowsdream said:
W/we can only speak for what works for us or what takes our breath away. Without all styles and flavours the perfect meld of personalities would be sorely limited.

Have to agree.

So I will speak of My way. My way is the perfect fantasy for some and a horrendous reality for others.

I Dominate using My mind with the percision of a brain surgeon. My eyes read past the moment and search out each tremble and blush. My smile reaches My eyes but cannot hide My seriousness.

This style I love. The mind is one of the most extraordinarily erotic aphrodesiacs, as well as a tool, a weapon, and a friend, all of which can be missed so easily for those expecting everything to be blatent and obvious.

I am gentle but the firmness of My hand on the back of the neck of a submissive grips like steel wrapped in an electric glove.

There is a certain undeniable appeal to this perfect blend.

I have no need to control a submissive that is not under My direct ownership or training. Yet My Dominance flows beneath each word spoken. Even kindness has its own Dominance.

I think this is overlooked by many, and that is partly due to the impressions and images created in print. Some feel a Dominant will dominate all who come into their presence....I tend to think that is more the realm of an insecure Dominant who feels a need to 'show' they are the Dominant they profess to be. Then based on these perceptions, those less experienced often easily mistake the kinder, more thoughtful Dominant as weak or not 'dominant' enough.

I do enjoy the subtle conversations two Dominants will have just out of hearing range of Their submissives.

This pleasure I have yet to experience, but I am sure it will hold it's expected fear and anticipatory appeal.

I believe that Dom/mes that take the time to build and deepen Their Dom/me friendships are taking direct responsibility for enriching the BDSM community and Their own lives.

I can see how this would be, and the importance for taking responsibility within the community which forms the foundations of the most cherished and important facets of our lives.

Even though I laugh almost constantly and am seldom seen without a ~smile~ I do not suffer fools well.

Have to admit you are not alone in this. Unintentional ignorance is one thing and inoffensive in that none of us have all the answers to anything....but blind, and closed minded stupidity, or those who think they can pull one over on you are far from fascinating company.

The submissive that makes the mistake of thinking I am not constantly aware of their behaviour will see a quick hand flash out of nowhere to correct them.

I expect class and joyful obedience..anything less will bring out the scathing Bitch and I WILL drop them to their knees in tears with a single finger in the ring of the collar or a hand full of hair if need be.

Pleasure is a word which comes to mind....attention to detail is always appreciated, especially when disguised so well it can encourage a false sense of security and a lsubsequent lesson well learned.

Formality is important to Me for Me. My formal attitude does not make Me more or less than any other Dominant. It doesn't make Me unique. It is simply where I fit.

It is so important to happiness and security to recognise where you are comfortable without feeling the need to impress others, or adopt their preferences out of insecurity.

I am as subtle as a Black Widow Spider eating Her mate! I am demanding and almost impossible.

LOL...now this I love.

I take this lifestyle incredibly seriously...because it is My passion. Yet I do not feel that the depth of My seriousness makes Me any more of a kinkster than tomorrows newbie.

Also a truth....there is always something more to learn, to experience, and sometimes those lessons can be learned through the freshness of eyes and ideas of the not so experienced.

Catalina http://www.gifs-paradies.de/smilies/00001729.gif
Click to expand...
 
Well, I guess I am probably 75% covert and 25% displayed dominance.

I have had submissives who did not like the "covert" style and those relationships did not last long. It never led to topping from the bottom but a few submissives asked me if this was intentionally my style. I often get busy on new projects, and that is usually a partial explanation, but I explained this is how I really am. My submissives are usually mature with lots of common sense and understand that it is definitely not a lack of ideas or energy. They are too smart to try provoking me into a different approach. If my style does not suit them, we agree to end the relationship.

As to the suggestion that perhaps there are more predators in the fully displayed style of dominance, I have no evidence but logically it would make sense. New submissives who do not understand covert dominance could easily get taken up by a questionable dom/me that uses the fully displayed style. As has been discussed repeatedly in other threads, some of these "questionable" dom/mes are really just abusers and have no true connection to BDSM. I want to emphasize that there are many legitimate dom/mes who use a fully displayed style. It is just a question of inexperienced submissives being able to determine the difference between these legitimate people and the scumbags.

Speaking of my personal experience, I do not think a submissive has ever misunderstood that I used mostly covert dominance. Some simply do not care to submit to someone with that style. They might find it boring, unpredictable or slow paced. Maybe they do not care about growth and/or feel constantly mentally challenged by the covert style. They just want a physical release or feel the firm grip at all times.

It would take pages to explain my covert style so I will just make a simple analogy. A fully displayed style is like an action or comedy movie. It is fast paced, lively, fully caught in the moment and definitely grabs your attention. A covert style is like a heavy movie that is difficult to watch or fully understand as it is unfolding. As soon as you finish an action movie, you forget about the plot and the issues by the time you exit the theater. A heavy movie can still have you thinking the next day or even weeks later. Some people sit through a movie like The Deer Hunter and watch it superficially without considering the psychology. But no one questions the underlying themes raised by the plot of Bad Boys II because there is nothing that requires deeper contemplation.

Also, I am not trying to say covert dominance is better than displayed dominance. Displayed style is obviously much more popular so I was just trying to explain covert dominance since it will be in the minority.
 
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Mr Blonde said:
Well, I guess I am probably 75% covert and 25% displayed dominance.

I have had submissives who did not like the "covert" style and those relationships did not last long. It never led to topping from the bottom but a few submissives asked me if this was intentionally my style. I often get busy on new projects, and that is usually a partial explanation, but I explained this is how I really am. My submissives are usually mature with lots of common sense and understand that it is definitely not a lack of ideas or energy. They are too smart to try provoking me into a different approach. If my style does not suit them, we agree to end the relationship.

As to the suggestion that perhaps there are more predators in the fully displayed style of dominance, I have no evidence but logically it would make sense. New submissives who do not understand covert dominance could easily get taken up by a questionable dom/me that uses the fully displayed style. As has been discussed repeatedly in other threads, some of these "questionable" dom/mes are really just abusers and have no true connection to BDSM. I want to emphasize that there are many legitimate dom/mes who use a fully displayed style. It is just a question of inexperienced submissives being able to determine the difference between these legitimate people and the scumbags.

Speaking of my personal experience, I do not think a submissive has ever misunderstood that I used mostly covert dominance. Some simply do not care to submit to someone with that style. They might find it boring, unpredictable or slow paced. Maybe they do not care about growth and/or feel constantly mentally challenged by the covert style. They just want a physical release or feel the firm grip at all times.

It would take pages to explain my covert style so I will just make a simple analogy. A fully displayed style is like an action or comedy movie. It is fast paced, lively, fully caught in the moment and definitely grabs your attention. A covert style is like a heavy movie that is difficult to watch or fully understand as it is unfolding. As soon as you leave an action movie, you forget about the plot and the issues by the time you exit the theater. A heavy movie can still have you thinking the next day or even weeks later. Some people sit through a movie like The Deer Hunter and watch it superficially without considering the psychology. But no one questions the underlying themes raised by the plot of Bad Boys II.

Also, I am not trying to say covert dominance is better than displayed dominance. Displayed style is obviously much more popular so I was just trying to explain covert dominance since it will be in the minority.
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I dont agree with displayed being more popular in the real world. I think in the real world most true Dominants need not display their dominance...its there ,the sub/slave knows it ,and not a word need to be spoken or action taken to *prove* it. To me that is true dominance and absolute control.
 
FungiUg said:
It would be fun to have some not-so-subtle conversations within the hearing range of a submissive... and see how much the submissive can be made to squirm just from what she overhears. :devil:
Click to expand...

O yes but that is just a given lol
 
Well, let's talk about theatrics.

There are some who appreciate the pageantry of Dominant's who wear the "gear" and use florid buzzwords and complicated hand signals. i am not a part of this group, although i believe there is some merit in displays of this nature and see no problem with anyone who adopts this style of dominance.

If this overt style provides the Dominant with an outlet to express their dominance, so be it. As a sub, it isn't my place to tell a Dominant how and in what way they should display their dominance. i will say, however, that this type of outward expression of dominance does not, in any way, solidify them as a Dominant to me. Rather, there would be a fair amount of "wait and see" on my part before i made a determination about the substance of their dominance.

As to covert dominance ... well, the subtlety involved in being such a Dominant seems to be less work intensive. Oh, don't get me wrong, i do believe it takes some effort to maintain self-control especially when dealing with the "inner beast." However, the projected image of a covert Dominant seems to be effortless to others. Is it appealing? Sure it is. Verbally overbearing and insistently arrogant Dominant's tend to be off putting as their effort to appear more domly than others makes them seem disingenuous.

i appreciate the covert Dominant simply because what seems to be most important to them is their ability to exhibit quiet control without flagrant, grandiose actions. To my way of thinking, this speaks volumes to the sub in me. Again, there is no guarantee that a Dominant of this type is actually a Dominant at all. So there would also be a period of "wait and see."

Finally, it should be noted that predators (those with enough intelligence to pull it off) can also be covert in their actions and don't necessarily need uber-Dom/me like qualities to be branded dangerous.

lara
 
Hmmm... I can't say I have ever thought of myself as "covert". I tend to be more overt than covert. However, I don't need ritual or flourishes to dominate -- my dominance simply is. I tend to take charge, and in sexual situations with a submissive, I can open up and just completely dominate. The rest of the time I tend to keep my dominance in rein.

For me, covert dominance would be a behind the scenes manipulator. Or am I missing something?

I do tend to think of dominance in terms of physical and mental. Most of my dominance is in the mental space. I can (and have) done the physical overpower thing, which I find is fun, but I don't get as much pleasure out of holding someone in my mind and knowing exactly what to say and how to bend them to my will. So I find the challenge of NOT using physical force to be more satisfying.
 
FungiUg said:


For me, covert dominance would be a behind the scenes manipulator. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I don't think of covert dominance as manipulation as I feel that is negative and not domination in the true sense. Though it can take a variety of forms, I think of it more as a means of allowing the submissive in a way to feel the dominance and make a choice to submit to it, moreso than submitting as they are told to. For instance, a situation whereby a Dominant and submissive are in the initial stages of a relationship whereby they are learning about each other, finding common ground, testing compatability etc. In that context they socialise with others in the lifestyle, perhaps in a club they frequent. Instead of the Dominant issueing the submissive with a set of rules of who, how, and if they can interact with, the Dominant leaves the situation open to observe the submissives actions.

One submissive may interact with others in a respectful, but clearly defined manner which does not include pasing beyond recognised points of acceptability, while another may in their freedom find themselves more and more drawn to other Dominants in a way whereby they will play with them without seeking permission, or begin to feel their Dominant is not dominating them simply because they are not telling them what to do, and who they can speak to, and in what way. I don't see it as manipulation, moreso a gauging of the submissive's understanding and execution of their submission without interference, and in relation to how the Dominant may prefer. Some submissives see it as a lack of dominance, or weakness, because they do not understand the mindset and expected behaviour, and may act in reaction to that (hence giving them enough rope to hang themselves), while another will appreciate the opportunity to display their trust, willingness, and desire to submit to that one person.

Catalina :rose:
 
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