Strengths of Dominance : Different Strokes For Different Folks

[FungiUg]

Um... I guess I am still lost. So covert dominance is dominating by NOT telling the submissive what to do?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Um... I guess I am still lost. So covert dominance is dominating by NOT telling the submissive what to do?

In some ways and for a simplified understanding I suppose you might prefer to see it that way. I see it more as a way of dominating that does not require every word and action spelt out to the submissive, every reason and meaning explained, but allows them to submit all the same, usually from the heart and/or soul out of a desire to submit more so than having to perform like a robot with no mind with which to think for itself. I see it as quite legitimate for a Dominant to express his expectations, without having to then reinforce them repeatedly, and every minute with a long list of 'do this, but don't do that's' , It is not for every one, and does take a lot more effort to figure out if you are not accustomed to it or wired similarly, but it is a challenge and does often have a depth to it some crave and hunger.

Catalina

 

[Justina123]

Just a comment- I have also found that "style" of dominance can seem to change quite a bit as a relationship grows with time. Now that Sir and I have been together a while, I know a lot more of his preferences and I can follow them without being told. Hence, his direction seems more "covert"- though, actually it is just unspoken.

- justina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Just a comment- I have also found that "style" of dominance can seem to change quite a bit as a relationship grows with time. Now that Sir and I have been together a while, I know a lot more of his preferences and I can follow them without being told. Hence, his direction seems more "covert"- though, actually it is just unspoken.

- justina

That is true, though over time I suspect the basics have been spoken and understood, and then become covert in that it is not openly displayed or discussed unless the need arises. I think dominance and submission has to change within a relationhip to keep it evolving and alive.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I do not know if covert dominance is the correct terminology for this, it sounds a bit too sneaky and more like cloak and dagger stuff. However that is just terminology, we could use another term maybe it would make it clearer if we would talk about not openly displayed dominance. There are many ways in domination and many ways on how to control a partner.

But I have found that most Dominants grow towards a certain path. In the beginning the Dominant does not know or have the skill to understand the effects of their actions, most Dominants are drawn towards dominance out of a hidden need and some of those have a deep in bred guilt about what they are doing. How many of us have been taught that it is immoral to hurt another being? With time we gain confidence and with time we learn to control those hidden demons inside us.

Most sadistic Dominants will pass through an evolutionary stage in which they have to find reasons to inflict pain on their partners, and IMO this is where the whole punishment scene comes from, we need to find excuses to inflict pain on our partner since we can not just admit we like giving pain, that we are sadists and that our partners are masochists. With time we pass this phase and we grow more comfortable with ourselves, we become more honest about our own feelings. I have by now reached the level that whenever I feel like giving pain to my partner I will, I do not need excuses to satisfy my hunger. That has lead to me being more relaxed about punishment, discipline and being openly dominant.

My partner knows what I like and what I dislike, she knows how to behave and how not to behave. I do not need to watch her every single minute of the day, I do not need to make sure she obeys me, she does and tells me when she has been disobedient. To some it seems all very lazy dominance, but to me it is a lot harder than having to check up on her all the time, having to raise my voice and discipline her constantly to make sure she obeys me.

For the people who ever had a dog the following question, which would be your style and which style would you like to be?

Case one:
A trainer orders his dogs to stay, walks ten meters away, constantly looking back to see if the dog is still following the command and reaffirming the order every 10 to 20 seconds, the dog obeys and stays in his place.

Case two:
A trainer orders his dogs to stay, walks ten meters away, he does not repeat the order, he does not look back, he knows he is being obeyed and he is obeyed.

I do not feel that I need to express my Dominance, I do not care if others see me as Dominant or not, I know I am Dominant and my partner knows I am Dominant and that is enough. This is all of course just my opinion.

Francisco.

 

[Princessintrng]

Just my humble opinion

I like knowing what the rules are, but I don't like being reminded of them every few minutes, or constantly being told what to do. I feel when I am given the opportunity to submit, of my own accord it makes my submission more significant. I don't need the outwardly show of dominance to know that he is in fact my Dom. Of course I'm sure it is different for everyone, this is just how it works for me.

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, I think this "covert dominance" is starting to click for me. I still suspect a better term would be, well, better... but hey.

I think there are different "phases" within a "style" also. For example, there will be times when I relax and just expect my will to be followed. At other times, I will be actively exploring a mind and playing with it, perhaps moulding it to my will, or perhaps just enjoying the effect I can have on a poor submissive.

Within a longer term relationship or a co-habiting relationship, I would also expect to see more progression (than what I experienced with a short-term occasional relationship). Relationships have to be kept alive and not stagnate, and that's just as true of D/s as any other type of relationship.

 

[Netzach]

All I know is that I can pretty much rely on the fact that 99 percent of the time my partner will do something if I tell him to.

I probably excercise that right a little more than your average gal, but not a lot more than your average I-scored-in-the-middle-of-the-type-A-type-B-quiz-and-I'm-an-I/sortaENTP

I notice a definite desire on my parnter's part to please me, and I choose to reinforce this behavior at key opportunities.

I don't like this "enough rope to hang oneself" analogy...to me that's very much in line with the setting up of punishment opportunities that the novice Sadist might do (I never was into that scene, possibly because I never had huge feelings of guilt and shame about my Sadism, just minor ones) It's simply less ham-handed.

I expect success in pleasing me, and I set a reasonable bar. I know, I know, that's probably FemDom treason...we are supposed to be capricious, implacable, hard to win, pains in the ass, basically....and I'm not. I have a colleague I adore, whose style is 180 degrees from mine in formality, who lets a slave "get it right" one time in 100 and they love her more for it...hell, I responded that way to those teachers, I understand the appeal, believe me. And I don't run around giving out A's, but I like the majority of my students to *pass*.

I tend to be pleased more often than not, and I tend to smile, cajole, laugh, and tease a lot. I'd rather be enjoying myself than in a constant state of disappointment and iron fistedness.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't like this "enough rope to hang oneself" analogy...to me that's very much in line with the setting up of punishment opportunities that the novice Sadist might do (I never was into that scene, possibly because I never had huge feelings of guilt and shame about my Sadism, just minor ones) It's simply less ham-handed.

.

Think maybe my reference to this phrase is misunderstood. Basically what I am saying is there are submissives who may say they want to submit, but who also will seize opportunities to do as they please if they think there is a chance or just don't get it. This is not so much a deliberate attempt by the Dominant to trick them, but by not being 2 inches from them at all times, directing their every thought or move, it does tend to lull those so predisposed into a false sense of security. I believe as adults that it is the responsibility of the submissive mostly to assume responsibility for this straying in bahaviour as if they know the ground rules, express a desire to submit, then seek to flaunt the trust placed in them, they have hung themselves, not been hung by the covert and/or sadistic Dominant.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

... there are submissives who may say they want to submit, but who also will seize opportunities to do as they please if they think there is a chance or just don't get it ...

i don't consider these people submissives any more than a predator to be a PYL.

i think i've heard these "submissives" called SAMmies ... Smart Ass Masochists.

If that's the dynamic, and the SAMmy finds someone that wants that kind of headache, more power to them. i don't want them.

 

[catalina_francisco]

i don't consider these people submissives any more than a predator to be a PYL.

i think i've heard these "submissives" called SAMmies ... Smart Ass Masochists.

If that's the dynamic, and the SAMmy finds someone that wants that kind of headache, more power to them. i don't want them.

Some are SAMmies, some are just inexperienced or perhaps not quite on the right track.....which all comes out when left to demostrate their submission without 'hands on' guidance and minute instructions so to speak.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Some are SAMmies, some are just inexperienced or perhaps not quite on the right track ...

i don't mind inexperienced. i expect to know someone well enough to figure out the difference between the three. The first and last can keep looking.

 

[emeraldman]

I love the idea that the real dom rules with unspoken words and that the goal is that the sub abd the dom know their places with each other with an unspoken language, sometimes the sub needs a good reminder and the dom does rule, but its understood and not based on leather or clothes but on the inner understanding fo the two partners, as it is a real partnership and a trade and it can lead to magic at times

 

[ethereal~minx]

I love the idea that the real dom rules with unspoken words and that the goal is that the sub abd the dom know their places with each other with an unspoken language, sometimes the sub needs a good reminder and the dom does rule, but its understood and not based on leather or clothes but on the inner understanding fo the two partners, as it is a real partnership and a trade and it can lead to magic at times

I can just hear these words out of 'his' mouth and while I understand the magic and do believe in it~~~ I am also sooo bothered by it.

I was involved with a dominant man~ that believes D/s is "just nature" and did not have ---or express--- boundaries. I'm thinking he felt it was an unspoken language that you either get or you don't.... when we were first together there was trust~ trust that he cared about me & my well-being as well as his own~~~ we talked and I had no fear of expressing myself, my emotions & fears--- how many fears can you have when you're in love *smiles* but really, we had heart to heart talks that built the trust between us. I could feeel his dominance and I totally believe his 'truth' ... and the 'covert' dominance worked because that trust was there.... I was learning our D/s life together and with that level of trust~~~~ it was working beautifully! That learning takes time and a committment to eachother.

He had expectations of me ~~ I had expectations too~~ I expected him to care about me, respond to me when I expressed my feelings, be a caring human being instead of just saying "I'm tired, I have to go to sleeeep" or "because I'm the Dom that's why".... that response over time diminished my trust so I'd behave (hindsight) resentfully and maybe to get his attention~~~ my motive was not in 'seizing opportunities' to please myself or 'flaunt' the trust placed in me~~~ my focus now was our relationship---I want to know he still cares about me, I want to believe in his love for me---I need to hear we are okay... and you know that old saying~~ kids would rather be punished than ignored~ well, I guess that's what it was like. I needed his attention.

 

[emeraldman]

the Dom has a true and real obligation to his or her sub, as we know, and these things vary as to the needs of both people. We grow and learn hopefully. The realtionship is only magic when both people function in it, as all relationships

 

[catalina_francisco]

As hard as it is sometimes to accept, especially at times when a submissive feels they need a little more, the bottom line is a Dominant does do because they can and because they are the Dominant. Sometimes it is their personality to have that response, sometimes it is the moment and other pressures, sometimes it is unawareness of all the factors at that moment. Communication is good to encourage at a more appropriate time in discussing your feelings when those words are spoken, but may not always fufil what it is you feel is missing. I think it is the rare submissive who has never experienced these moments, especially in the early days of gaining experience and/or understanding, or times when their own issues demanded they felt more vulnerable and needed a more caring response. Unfortunately that is part of the D/s exchange though which means it is not what we need that is uppermost in the Dominant's mind, unless they wish it to be.

Catalina

 

[Limbhugger]

Here's a personal example that I feel expresses what this idea means to me...

Mistress (Wife) is doing the bills in her chair. As I passed by to use the bathroom, she simply raised her empty coffee cup up to me. No words or eye contact. Of when I returned, the cup was full and with the proper amount of sweetener and flavoring. She did smile briefly at me when I handed her back the cup but that was all.

I see that as a subtle exertion of her Domme status in our relationship.

Hugger

 

[emeraldman]

the thought arises, can you have this type of relationship without the physical pain and whipping etc.? For me, it is pleasure, the spanking , etc but perhaps it exists without that aspect. I love that part of it, is it part of the control? I wonder....

 

[emeraldman]

the thought arises, can you have this type of relationship without the physical pain and whipping etc.? For me, it is pleasure, the spanking , etc but perhaps it exists without that aspect. I love that part of it, is it part of the control? I wonder....

 

[emeraldman]

the thought arises, can you have this type of relationship without the physical pain and whipping etc.? For me, it is pleasure, the spanking , etc but perhaps it exists without that aspect. I love that part of it, is it part of the control? I wonder....

 

[emeraldman]

the thought arises, can you have this type of relationship without the physical pain and whipping etc.? For me, it is pleasure, the spanking , etc but perhaps it exists without that aspect. I love that part of it, is it part of the control? I wonder....

 

[FungiUg]

the thought arises, can you have this type of relationship without the physical pain and whipping etc.?

I don't see why not.
I don't see why not.
I don't see why not.
I don't see why not.

(I think there's an echo in here...)

 

[Quint]

I remember looking through some BDSM-training chateau's website (wish I could remember the name) and reading a very concise statement of what they felt to be the difference between a kinky bottom and a submissive. Paraphrased, the line was "a sensualist gets aroused by harshly-spoken words. A submissive gets aroused by the knowledge that she has served well." I found it inflammatory as a blanket statement but I do see some reason in it. Dominance doesn't have to be all about "I gots me a big scary whip so I can make you do what I want." (I do think that it can be, satisfyingly so if the couple's needs are mutual, but that's not the point.) Although I'm far from The Loving Dominant's biggest advocate, there is a world of capability in dominance without threat of pain or humiliation. It's harder for me, personally, but I like that about it.

 

[Shadowsdream]

Here's a personal example that I feel expresses what this idea means to me...

Mistress (Wife) is doing the bills in her chair. As I passed by to use the bathroom, she simply raised her empty coffee cup up to me. No words or eye contact. Of when I returned, the cup was full and with the proper amount of sweetener and flavoring. She did smile briefly at me when I handed her back the cup but that was all.

I see that as a subtle exertion of her Domme status in our relationship.

Hugger

My compliments to your Mistress

 

[catalina_francisco]

Have to say I am major pain slut, so the dominance is not actually reinforced through threat of pain. Receiving what he needs to give is a reward for both of us and not something we can deny as in he use pain as a reward for how well I submit, or punish me with it if I don't. It is a bonus. The D/s comes more from a mindset we both share of the type relationship we want and enjoy, and the TPE we are committed to.

Catalina